Where to begin re: landscaping

[lilac05]

While I'm still waiting for our current house to sell, I'm dreaming of what I'd eventually like to do with our yard at the new house.  

The lot is 2/3 acre.  The back is full sun, big evergreen trees along the back property line, and a nice fire pit area with some stuff planted around it.  There are hostas and easy care plants around the perimeter of the house.  Most of the lawn is just big, flat, open grassy area.

It looks pretty, but I'd like to make it more functional.  Fruit trees, veggie garden, plants that attract butterflies and bees, etc.  Basically make it better for us and for the environment.  I don't have a clue where to start with it, though.  Obviously it'll be spread out over several years, but I'm having fun dreaming.

Any ideas or resources?  A family member is a landscape designer (I think...I don't know his actual title).  He will happily help, but he is more of a "looks only" kind of guy.  Of course I'd like it to look nice, but I'd choose function over fashion any day.  I'd like to have a better idea of what I want before he starts making recommendations for changing stuff.

[mrs.jacinthe]

What our master gardeners recommend is first to decide on how you will use the space. Make a list of the top ten things you want to do outside, and then start with the one that's most important. (I.e. you want a play space for the kids, top priority is to plan/design/implement that)

[lilac05]

Jul 5, 2015 15:02:50 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

What our master gardeners recommend is first to decide on how you will use the space. Make a list of the top ten things you want to do outside, and then start with the one that's most important. (I.e. you want a play space for the kids, top priority is to plan/design/implement that)

That's a great idea.  So simple, yet I hadn't thought of it.  (I suppose why they're Master Gardeners & I'm not!)

A challenge will be that my H loves endless grass.  We have fundamental differences in what is most important to us re: yard space.  It's a good thing the yard is so big (obvious 'big' is relative!).

[Deleted]

I would do some research in to Permagardening! I like having enough lawn for lounging on a blanket and playing but then want pretty and also useful plants for the rest. I recommend this book www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-Home-Scale-Permaculture-Edition/dp/1603580298 as a great intro with concepts and how-tos. It talks about breaking your yard up into zones based on proximity to the house and we combined that concept a bit along with a list of what kinds of spaces we wanted (like Mrs.jacinthe said). So we wanted some raised veggie beds to supplement our groceries in the summer and the fun of self-satisfaction of growing some of our own food. We're not crazy about it, we just have 3 beds and they are placed in the area that least disrupts the lawn and gets the best sun. Our list was: raised veggie beds, herb spiral, lawn space for playing/lounging, a fruit tree (I wanted a quince). Still working on all the established beds as they are too much maintenance for me and I'm trying to slowly plan in plants that require less care and to get it filled in to reduce weeding.

Our favorite feature we've done so far is an herb spiral. I like to use fresh herbs in cooking, plus its a really gorgeous feature that gives some height to the yard (about 3 feet tall) and as an added bonus, the bees LOVE the herb flowers.

[lilac05]

Jul 5, 2015 16:12:08 GMT -5 @ksta said:

Our favorite feature we've done so far is an herb spiral. I like to use fresh herbs in cooking, plus its a really gorgeous feature that gives some height to the yard (about 3 feet tall) and as an added bonus, the bees LOVE the herb flowers.

I've never heard of an herb spiral, but i looked it up & now I think I MUST have one!  Do you have a picture of yours?

I'm not familiar with permagardening, but will look into it.  Thank you for the recommendations!  ETA:  just put the book on reserve at the library.  It's due back 7/11. 

[lilac05]

Jul 5, 2015 19:18:04 GMT -5 @domerjen said:

It might be useful to keep an eye on the property over the summer and see where the sun hits, what time of day it comes and goes, etc... I was surprised this year as to how late some areas of our yard got hit with sun - it made me have to re-dig a LARGE hole for a fruit tree

Oh no!  What a pain!

The house faces East & the shade from the evergreens doesn't hit until really late in the evening.  I should check on how big they'll grow, though.  They're 15 years old.  I'll be sure to keep an eye on it after we move in (Friday!!).

[mrsd2006]

I've never heard of an herb spiral either but now I have to have one!

[Deleted]

Here you go, lilac05 and mrsd2006 - Won't let me do 2 pics in one post

edit: from this view, you only see the Oregon, the purple sage that can't get enough sunlight because the Bergaarten sage is just crazy!

As a buffer from the grass, I've planted mostly varieties of thyme around the bottom. I interspersed wooly thyme for its texture with thymes to bloom in kind of an ombre, so starting near the back is red chintz, pink chintz, a lighter pink blossoming one, then white. There's a curry plant and (you can't see here) on the other side are some other random thymes (nutmeg, caraway, and a third i don't remember). Alas, the cute pincushion moss at the very right side has died off, I didn't pay attention and its not drought tolerant. And my English daisies always get sad and die back with the summer heat.

I haven't figured out what kind of permanent labels I want yet so that's why you see the less than cute plastic tags tucked in to the rocks here and there.

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[Deleted]

These photos are from June. From center top and around the spiral: Arp Rosemary, Greek Oregano, Bergaarten Sage, (there's a purple sage tucked on the outer edge but that Bergaarten just keeps overshadowing it so its not growing much larger, i added it for color), English Thyme, lemon variegated thyme, garlic chives, regular (onion) chives. The bottom space was for black cumin but its an annual and they didn't have any starts at the Seattle Tilth sale this year.  I used to have parsley in there but it was overtaking the entire spiral like I suspected it would, so I pulled it and just put in the garlic chives.

Around the base on the backside I have planted Scottish and irish moss and a heron's bill and have a few more spaces left to fill in but not sure what i want to plant there yet. They scraggly thyme poking out of the back rocks is Foxley. I was originally going for ONLY edibles or thymes but wanted some moss.

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[2curlydogs]

Ditto mrs.jacinthe and also @domerjen. Think about what you want to DO outside - both short and long-term - and take a full year to see what you have existing on the property to determine what you want to keep and what you want to get rid of or change. Keep a journal, create a landscape plan of your CURRENT layout. You can then use either photoshop or go old school and use onion paper to make changes.


With as much space as you have (we have roughly the same size lot and exposure as you, though our house faces north), you can actually probably accommodate 2-3 top priorities. For example, one corner for kid play space, one corner for raised garden beds, entertaining space by the house, etc.

What zone are you?

[lilac05]

Jul 6, 2015 12:53:50 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

What zone are you?

5b, I think.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[treedimensional]

You should work with a qualified designer. And when I say that, I mean someone who has been through design school and understands design principles. That person should also have a vast body of plant knowledge. They should know how to create functioning ecosystems, and insect conservation should be a goal. Designers should do ALL this, every time.
I agree with domerjen that it takes time to map out your land. You must observe it over many hours. Most people have simply never spent enough time outside to know where the sun shines and for how long, so they just assume. I've worked with many who wrongly assumed that the north side was shady and the south was sunny (not always that simple). I am outside constantly and I can still miss sunny zones in my backyard by a few feet.
And about deciding how you will use the space... this is a great idea in theory. But what you THINK will happen may be very different from what actually happens. Many people IMAGINE they will do this or that in the back yard, but they never do. They fantasize about a hammock stretched between trees, or a vegetable garden, but the reality is they'd rather stay inside on the sofa watching TV and enjoying bug-free, air-conditioned comfort. Some customers never imagined they'd sit on a patio until after it was built... the design can change how you use your space as much as the lack of one can, KWIM?
Finally, how people use their outdoor space can evolve rapidly. This is something I didn't appreciate before I had long-term clients. I have re-planted as many things as I've planted for some clients, because over time, they spend more time in some areas, and less in others.
Best wishes on your landscape.

[lilac05]

Jul 7, 2015 5:57:45 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

You should work with a qualified designer. And when I say that, I mean someone who has been through design school and understands design principles. That person should also have a vast body of plant knowledge. They should know how to create functioning ecosystems, and insect conservation should be a goal. Designers should do ALL this, every time.

Thank you for all of this information and stuff to think about!

How much does a designer cost?  Where would I go about finding one?  We have one landscaping company who seems to do most of the work around our town (& the owners are new neighbors), but most of their stuff looks pretty similar.  Lots of patios and stone, less in the way of plantings...at least from what I see.

I'll also have the family dynamics to work around, too.  My BIL went to school for something re: landscaping, but I'm not sure what.  His work looks nice, but he always seems focused more on how things look than how they function.  He always wants to help us out.  Thankfully he is a zone or maybe two away, so I might have that as an excuse of why I'm working with someone else for plans.

[treedimensional]

Jul 7, 2015 8:27:06 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Jul 7, 2015 5:57:45 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

You should work with a qualified designer. And when I say that, I mean someone who has been through design school and understands design principles. That person should also have a vast body of plant knowledge. They should know how to create functioning ecosystems, and insect conservation should be a goal. Designers should do ALL this, every time.

Thank you for all of this information and stuff to think about!

How much does a designer cost?  Where would I go about finding one?  We have one landscaping company who seems to do most of the work around our town (& the owners are new neighbors), but most of their stuff looks pretty similar.  Lots of patios and stone, less in the way of plantings...at least from what I see.

I'll also have the family dynamics to work around, too.  My BIL went to school for something re: landscaping, but I'm not sure what.  His work looks nice, but he always seems focused more on how things look than how they function.  He always wants to help us out.  Thankfully he is a zone or maybe two away, so I might have that as an excuse of why I'm working with someone else for plans.

You can find a designer here:

 www.apld.com/?find_miles=5&find_zipcode=zipcode&find_state=&find_country=&submit=Go&p=find-designer

I can't quote prices. Most charge by the hour. In my area, it can be as little as $45 per hour or as much as $125.

I can also tell you that the vast majority of people designing landscapes have ZERO training. They buy a truck, a lawnmower, a shovel, a saw, and a blower, and they're in business. And they get hired ALL DAY LONG. They even get featured on TV (Antonia Sabato's show, "Fix It and Finish It", recently hired a MOVING COMPANY to renovate a landscape. I AM NOT KIDDING).

[lilac05]

Jul 7, 2015 8:44:15 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

Jul 7, 2015 8:27:06 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

You can find a designer here:

 www.apld.com/?find_miles=5&find_zipcode=zipcode&find_state=&find_country=&submit=Go&p=find-designer

I can't quote prices. Most charge by the hour. In my area, it can be as little as $45 per hour or as much as $125.

I can also tell you that the vast majority of people designing landscapes have ZERO training. They buy a truck, a lawnmower, a shovel, a saw, and a blower, and they're in business. And they get hired ALL DAY LONG. They even get featured on TV (Antonia Sabato's show, "Fix It and Finish It", recently hired a MOVING COMPANY to renovate a landscape. I AM NOT KIDDING).

There are only a handful in my state...the closest one is 30 miles away.  

Looks like I'll be asking my BIL lots of questions.  I know he has a degree, it's not just "have mower, will work".  He's probably more knowledgable and talented than I give him credit for.  As long as he listens to what I want instead of just doing what he wants to do, we may have a chance of making something work.  Whatever happens will have to happen in many phases!  First step:  remove the dead tree & lilac bush.

[2curlydogs]

Jul 6, 2015 14:05:47 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Jul 6, 2015 12:53:50 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

What zone are you?

5b, I think.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I'm in the same zone. I think a lot of folks on the board are a bit further south - 6-7.

FWIW, we contracted with a landscape architect, which is different than a landscape designer. He drew up a plan for our backyard for about $800 about 4 years ago. We've since taken that plan and made modifications as our needs changed... or as my husband has misread the plan (to quote: "Wait, the scale was 1:10? Oops. I thought it was 1:15. We need more plants.").

[mrspez07]

I will say that many landscape designers and landscape architects design for looks in plant design and not always function (Eco benefits, etc.) That is the nature of much of their education, so the focus is on the visual appeal, understanding sun and shade plants and how things look together is the primary focus. Some get into the horticulture/botany of it later, but many do not.
However, where having a professional help is a big benefit is in the design/function of the spaces, knowing an appropriate size/scale for a space and having a neutral party to visualize your landscape without the background and emotion you as a homeowner have.
I'm an LA, yet I can't seem to design my own yard! I may need to hire a designer to get me past the mental block I have of designing my own space!