picking your battles versus giving in to DD's every whim

[countthestars]

H and I are struggling with the difference here. Talk me through what you would have done in the following situations.

Examples:
DD usually has a bath, then milk, then books and bed. Last night she wanted her milk before bath and was throwing a little fit about it. Do I care about which comes first? Should I care if both are going to get done? Am I teaching her the wrong thing by telling her she needs to take a bath first? What if I let her have the milk first even though she knows that we do bath first?
- Bonus: what if she wants to drink the milk downstairs on the couch instead of in her room?

At bedtime we read a story. I usually tell her "one more time" and then we talk through how I am going to tuck her in. When I finish, she yells (excitedly) "one more!!" so I read it again, do bedtime routine as discussed, leave. She goes down great. Should I stop giving in to the last one more since I have already announced one more?

I'm worried that she is going to get used to doing everything her way which can be a problem both in general life as well as once the baby comes. I am also not sure that we need to be strict with either of those because why? It doesn't bother me to do milk before bath or vice versa.

[Deleted]

I offer "choices" about the order of bedtime routine. My goal is bed. I DGAF if we do milk then bath or bath then milk.

As for the encore, just be consistent. If the routine is you give in once, so be it. That's fine. But never twice.

Be strict about shit that matters. Car seat every single time. Don't drink the toilet cleaner. Hold my hand in the parking lot.

[krystee]

I would not care on the order of milk and bath, but if you say one more, I think you should mean it. If you want to read both, then tell her she has two more.

[wilbs]

I'm just chiming in to say we are struggling with the same thing and just today I was thinking that we might give in to him too much. I'm interested to see what the responses are.

[MadamePresident]

When I don't want to give in to a demand I try to redirect the conversation. Trying to negotiate or explain why we can't do something doesn't work with a kid who doesn't get logic.

But I will give control when it doesn't matter like order of bedtime routine.

[mlt]

I don't care about the order. If she wants to do things slightly out of order I would allow it. I draw the line at him not wanting his teeth brushed: that happens whether he likes it or not. In my head there are things that are non negotiable: being polite, being kind to his brother, helping out around the house. If he wants to carry laundry instead of set the table, that's fine. I'll give him a choice. I will not let him say "no, I'm not helping at all."

[Deleted]

I once let my kid drink his milk IN THE BATH.

I am no help.

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2015 13:05:51 GMT -5 wilbs said:

I'm just chiming in to say we are struggling with the same thing and just today I was thinking that we might give in to him too much. I'm interested to see what the responses are.

Ditto. I'm afraid I'm creating a monster. 

[cincodemayo]

I have been having these struggles too! I feel like I'm always "giving in" to avoid a fit, but it always stuff that just doesn't matter.

[aspentosh]

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, obviously.

I think the bonus to keeping it bath, then milk, then books, then bed is it becomes a routine and as she gets older she knows what is expected of her. We have DD go potty first THEN pick a book for nap/bedtime. It doesn't really matter, but she knows before she does what she wants (pick a book) she does what she has to (pees). It's worked well for us. But again, it doesn't really matter if the end result you want is a happy, clean kid.

W/R/T the second time. If I want her to understand that one more time means one more time, then I would stick with it. I let DD know that she can go down the slide 2 or 3 more times. Sometimes she'll negotiate up, which we work on that together rather than me giving in, and then she's perfectly happy to leave most of the time. Mainly because we've been consistent and she knows when we say _____ that we mean it.

That being said, it's not always foolproof. So there will be times we have to really push it that we're done or leaving or whatever. But again, I think as long as you're constant (one more time really means two more times) it's not the end of the world.

[dulcemariamar]

If you pick a battle, you should try to win it. So think before you make it a big issue.

1.) I dont really care about doing things a certain way. I care about her being cooperative. So if she wants to switch things up a bit then I am okay with. You can see when kids start to goof off. That is when I jump in. So if your daughter can drink her milk nicely on the sofa then that is ok. If she starts to play around then milk time would be over and the next night we would go back to the original plan.

2.) The one more time I would be strict about. If you say it then you should follow through.

[snshne322]

I wouldn't care much about the order of the milk or bath, but I'm pretty firm on staying true if I say one more time. I didn't use to be, but DS was starting to take advantage of it or not listen if I did actually follow through. However, if your DD isn't taking advantage and she's staying consistent with that, I don't think it's harmful.

[momin2013]

I wouldn't care about the milk order.

I would stick to one more if you've already said one more. If you find you're consistently reading more than one more, I might say "o.k., two more", then "one more", just to be able to stick to what you're saying.

[kaycee]

I struggle with this so much. I normally frame her choices around what I know she will pick to get the end result I want. It helps the day go smoother, but not really teaching her anything

[Deleted]

I don't care what order things are done in. My kids can pick the order we do bedtime routine in, within reason (i.e. no milk after brushing teeth), as long as it all gets done. They can drink their milk wherever they want to as long as they are neat and careful about it and not deliberately picking a weird spot just to stall.

I would not give in to the last "one more time." When I say one more time, it's one more time. Done.

I do not worry about causing general life problems by letting my kids pick the order they do things in. It gives them a little freedom and autonomy and makes them feel powerful in their own lives and like they are making their own choices, and that is a positive experience for them. Actually I would go so far as to say rigid adherence to an order of things FOR NO GOOD REASON creates an unnecessary power struggle and sets up a more adversarial relationship, and it's not like grown-ups have to do things in a certain order all the time. (Obviously if you have a good reason--like milk after brushing teeth can cause cavities so you always have milk first, then brush teeth--that is different.)

I am HUGE on picking my battles and I feel like I maintain a pretty smooth relationship with my kids in part because of it. My kids don't walk all over me by any stretch but I don't steamroll them, either.

[momin2013]

Well, I just asked DS if he wanted a yellow scrambled egg or a white hard-boiled egg with his supper and he replied "a brown, chocolate egg". So I might not be the best person to ask.

[shellbear09]

I am very much the type that thinks in terms of picking my battles. I just don't see the point with being so strict with things that don't matter. My H is more strict and we often have these squabbles too. I suppose it is good she gets a balance of parenting styles?

But in your examples I am the one that does bedtime so it is my call on whether or not I read more books etc. I do not care one bit about the order of things and making these things a hill to die on with a toddler is just unnecessary and more stressful for me so no thanks. That doesn't mean I give into everything but it happens. I mostly try to give choices and make things seem like her idea.

[Deleted]

I'll say this too. DD1 knows I am fairly flexible and willing to negotiate on things--like if I say no to something, she's likely to try to jump in to state her case and convince me otherwise. I am fine with that, and often she has a point I hadn't considered and I will change my mind. I think negotiation, independence, and standing up to an authority figure are good skills to cultivate and I don't mind being challenged (though I retain the final authority, lol). But when I am firm on something and not open to changing my mind, I have to specify that this particular thing is not open to discussion or negotiation and I will not be changing my mind, no matter what she says. It took me a little while to figure out that I have to differentiate for her between an "I don't think so" and a firm "no," and our lives have gotten a lot easier since I started doing that. So if you are a battle-picker like me, I definitely recommend being clear with your child about times when you are willing to hear them out and times when your word is final.

[Deleted]

I am happy to chime in since I am pretty much a parenting expert. DS1 is almost 9 and has never been to jail so I feel pretty confident in my abilities.

Honestly, I rarely have any idea what I am doing. I pretty much spend my days hoping for the best. In cases like this I don't care what order things are done as long as they actually get done. Sometimes we brush teeth before story time and sometimes it is after. The kids go to bed having read a story and everyone's teeth are still in their heads and cavity-free. This makes me want to sit back and give myself a big high five. I try to be more stringent about things that will follow them to older childhood or adulthood. Will it matter when they are older if they have milk (or any drink) earlier or later? No, probably not. Will it matter that they want to stay up all night and never go to sleep on time? Yes, this will matter more. So, as long as we do what we need to do but still get to bed at a reasonable time and sleep well, I don't worry. Does it matter that they bathe? Yep, sure does so they have to do this but it might be a little earlier in the evening and I will let them have a few minutes of TV time before we read.

There are certain things that I am particular about and make those non-negotiable. We will read and we will say prayers before bed. We will brush our teeth. We eat at least three bites of vegetables. We will not have anything but water to drink in our bedrooms (I'm not cleaning that up and I have too many kids to keep track of snacks and drinks if they leave the great room).

I have done charts in the past and that helps with certain parts of our day. All the boxes (story, tidy bedroom, brush teeth, put on pajamas, etc.) need to be checked and then we can head to bed. It doesn't matter what order we did it, it just needed to be done. As they got older we did this with chores during the day too.

Oh, and if she goes to bed after her declaration of "one more" without a fight I wouldn't worry. If she starts to press for more "one more"s and wants the story read 27 times, I would nip it in the bud. Give her a little wiggle room so long as she follows through with what she needs to do next. If she starts to push the limits then I would reel it back in and enforce your "one more" unless she will go straight to bed afterward.

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2015 13:04:13 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

I offer "choices" about the order of bedtime routine. My goal is bed. I DGAF if we do milk then bath or bath then milk.

As for the encore, just be consistent. If the routine is you give in once, so be it. That's fine. But never twice.

Be strict about shit that matters. Car seat every single time. Don't drink the toilet cleaner. Hold my hand in the parking lot.

I'm just going to follow @tokenhoser around the internet from here out and like everything she says. 

This is what I do. 

I also think carefully about end game and what really matters? PJs before teeth? Teeth before PJs? Are we still going to get bed on time? Yes? Great. Fine by me. 
I'm more concerned about my kids listening to get the follow through than how the follow through actually happens.
99% of the time when it comes to the little stuff in life as long as it gets me to my desired finished result I don't care. 

I also think being relaxed about this sort of stuff is what makes my kids great listeners when I really do need to be in control. I let them make enough decisions otherwise that when I do decide to make and important non-negotiable one they listen up. 

I also have no desire to be in complete control over "red cup" or "blue cup." It just sounds so exhausting. 

And of course my kids need to know life doesn't revolve around their decisions, but they also need to know flexibility which is also important. It's different if they're getting out of choices entirely. Changing up the timing is still completely a choice/following a direction.

[Deleted]

I do definitely weigh how much work their demands are vs. my planned output. You want macaroni for lunch and there's some in the fridge? Yes. You want macaroni for lunch and I packed sandwiches and we're at the park? Tough luck, kiddo, enjoy the sandwich. You want seven books for bedtime instead of three? Nope.

I do say no, but not if saying yes is equal or less effort.

[game blouses]

I used to come down SO HARD on everything. I dictated the order of bedtime routine and how he did things and when he did them and ugh. It was exhausting for me, frustrating for him, and it didn't separate the important things from the unimportant things.

Now I'm more than willing to negotiate about things I don't care about. DS doesn't like to come to the table when dinner is ready - I'M STILL PLAYING!!! - so I set a timer and he agrees to come when it rings a minute later. He has a zillion stuffed animals in his bed, but if he wants one more I let him have it. However, when I close the door bedtime is DONE. No more toys, no more stories, no whining about coming back, etc. I think he feels a little more in control of his life so he's not trying to wrest it from me (as much, lol).

[niq]

We do not give in on "last". We say "this is your last book" before we start reading it, and then "okay that was your last book, it's time for bed, if you want to read you can read all by yourself* in your crib."

There is lots of slack in the bedtime routine at all times before then. So we don't care much about order. We generally don't show the milk until he's changing into his pajamas, but if he asks for it early we go get it.

We had a couple of weeks of "WAH! COME BACK", but it's gone away. For the moment.

* No, he can't read, but he likes to flip through the pictures.

[chickens987]

Kind of a spin-off of this, I'd like input from @tokenhoser, page and @justdairy if you don't mind

DD likes to have things in a very specific way and DO IT MYSELF. Tonight, for example, I had moved her toothbrush onto her dresser while I cleaned the bathroom and forgot to put it back. While she was putting on her pjs I put it back in the bathroom. Of course, when it was time to brush her teeth, she looked at the dresser and freaked out that her toothbrush wasn't there. She went and got it from the bathroom, put it back on her dresser, just so she could take it back to the bathroom herself.

I love her independence, and for the most part it makes my life easier, but there are certain situations where it's just not practical/right for her to do it. If I can, I distract her, but that's not always possible.

Any suggestions for decreasing the related freak outs?

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2015 18:58:54 GMT -5 chickens987 said:

Kind of a spin-off of this, I'd like input from @tokenhoser, page and @justdairy if you don't mind

DD likes to have things in a very specific way and DO IT MYSELF. Tonight, for example, I had moved her toothbrush onto her dresser while I cleaned the bathroom and forgot to put it back. While she was putting on her pjs I put it back in the bathroom. Of course, when it was time to brush her teeth, she looked at the dresser and freaked out that her toothbrush wasn't there. She went and got it from the bathroom, put it back on her dresser, just so she could take it back to the bathroom herself.

I love her independence, and for the most part it makes my life easier, but there are certain situations where it's just not practical/right for her to do it. If I can, I distract her, but that's not always possible.

Any suggestions for decreasing the related freak outs?

We have the same kid. 
Problem is, she gets that from me. I'm the same way. I internally freak out at 33 if things aren't "just so."

I hear you though on the not feasible always. I honestly sort of just let it be. If she wants to be mad, she can just be mad. I know my kid and I know the more I ignore the faster she gets over it. I sometimes do the distraction thing. Now that's she older I do, "I know it's hard to feel that way. I understand. Next time it will be right!" or "Mommy messed up. Next time she needs a gentle reminder and you can help with that!" 

Of course now this has led to, "Mom! You screwed up. AGAIN. That's okay though. I still love you. Next time I'll remind you." 

I'm just hoping she outgrows the whining and processes it internally sooner than later like me..haha. JK.

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2015 18:58:54 GMT -5 chickens987 said:

Kind of a spin-off of this, I'd like input from @tokenhoser, page and @justdairy if you don't mind

DD likes to have things in a very specific way and DO IT MYSELF. Tonight, for example, I had moved her toothbrush onto her dresser while I cleaned the bathroom and forgot to put it back. While she was putting on her pjs I put it back in the bathroom. Of course, when it was time to brush her teeth, she looked at the dresser and freaked out that her toothbrush wasn't there. She went and got it from the bathroom, put it back on her dresser, just so she could take it back to the bathroom herself.

I love her independence, and for the most part it makes my life easier, but there are certain situations where it's just not practical/right for her to do it. If I can, I distract her, but that's not always possible.

Any suggestions for decreasing the related freak outs?

DD2 is the same way. She is INSANE with the "I do it myself!" stuff. 

One thing that helps is being in the habit of narrating everything to her. I describe what I am doing CONSTANTLY and if she wants to jump in and do it herself she'll say I DO IT MYSELF or MY TURN TO DO IT! Then I can let her, if it's an appropriate task, or explain that it's my job and not for her if it's an inappropriate one (like buckling her into her carseat--she always wants to do the bottom buckle and she physically can't). The running monologue feels silly but it really is helpful if you can get into the habit.

I am outcome oriented to the extreme and I try to remember that toddlers are process oriented--it's not about getting the job done for them, it's about the process of doing it. So I try to be forgiving about stuff like the toothbrush incident and remind myself that it is an extra 30 seconds that is hardly any time out of my day and a genuine and serious process for her (i.e. she is not just trying to stall bedtime, it is important to her to do it herself). If it's a truly impractical situation where she can't do it herself and I did not explain that to her beforehand, I apologize for my error and mirror her emotions back at her. "You're angry and frustrated because I buckled you in without giving you a turn or telling you it isn't your job. I'm sorry. Next time I will remember to tell you about it before I do it. Can you help me remember?"

This is really really really hard for me though, and I have far from a 100% success rate, so I really sympathize.

[vmars]

I would not care about the order with milk/bath. I always just make sure I brush his teeth after his last glass of milk.

I would also not care about one more book either. I want to encourage DS to love to read and don't really want it to be something I try and limit. If it's purely being used as a delay tactic to stay up too late then I would do what PP suggested and redirect/distract them with something else.

[dulcemariamar]

And also think about what is important to you. At bedtime, I am just counting down the minutes until I get to relax so I try to end things on a happy note. If I am super strict and she starts to cry or get really upset that just means I am going to have to hear her cry after I put her to sleep and that takes away from my time. So I will try to use humor, distraction, and choices to move the process along. Of course, I am not going to let her get away with murder but my end goal is just to get her to bed.

Now, if she wants to go to the park but is not being cooperative with getting her clothes on then I will just play on my phone on the sofa until she is ready to let me help her to get ready for the park. I am not going to chase her around the house just so we can get to the park.

And try not to worry so much about creating a monster. I know it is hard but you basically have to go through the same BS every day for a long tine until you see some results.

[Deleted]

I have to remind H that if he says 1 more, he really needs to only do one more. As for when milk is to be had, who cares? Give her a choice and then it doesn't have to be a battle, unless there is a good reason for it??

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 1:01:53 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

And try not to worry so much about creating a monster. I know it is hard but you basically have to go through the same BS every day for a long tine until you see some results.

LOL. Yep. I've been telling DD the same stuff since she was....2.....
She turns 4 on Monday. She doesn't always follow through but she knows the rules, she does the rules for everyone else, she tells OTHER kids the rules and how to be a "good" kid. She's also very aware of the consequences when she doesn't follow the rules.

So it is sinking in. I've really noticed life getting a lot easier with her lately. 

OP You are not creating a monster. There's a huge perfectly acceptable gray area in between shaking up the routine/choices and a free for all.