So, Atticus Finch is ruined.

[AllieHound]

mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/books/review-harper-lees-go-set-a-watchman-gives-atticus-finch-a-dark-side.html?referrer=

I can't c&p the article since I'm on my phone, but the jist is that in the sequel, Atticus is strongly opposed to desegregation and has no qualms about expressing those views hatefully.

I always kinda felt like this book shouldn't be published, but now I'm really wishing it wasn't.

[Deleted]

Yeah, there's no way I'm reading this. This article plus all the rumors of the shadiness surrounding the publishing (which imo seems like elder abuse) I refuse to recognize it as a sequel.

[katfco]

It's my understanding it isn't actually a sequel, but the first version of the book that eventually became "To Kill a Mockingbird."
mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/books/the-invisible-hand-behind-harper-lees-to-kill-a-mockingbird.html

[AllieHound]

Jul 13, 2015 7:27:17 GMT -5 katfco said:

It's my understanding it isn't actually a sequel, but the first version of the book that eventually became "To Kill a Mockingbird."
mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/books/the-invisible-hand-behind-harper-lees-to-kill-a-mockingbird.html

True, but it reads like a sequel in that Scout is grown and is apparently reflecting back on her childhood with mention of the events of Mockingbird. (Except, apparently in this version,Tom was acquitted).

[secretlyevil]

I thought this was going to be a prequal-type book?

[sugarglider]

Jul 13, 2015 7:32:38 GMT -5 secretlyevil said:

I thought this was going to be a prequal-type book?

It was written before but takes place after.

I'm gonna consider it a sort of early draft. The Aaticus Finch in TKAM is the "real" Atticus Finch, and this was just a first imagining.

[Deleted]

I haven't read it but I have read a bunch of reviews. Basically, this is the book Harper Lee wanted to publish but it was seen as too incendiary at the time and so she was told to rewrite it from Scout's POV and to focus less on the Civil Rights movement and more on the everyday doings in a small southern town. Watchman refers to the events in Mockingbird, such as the trial, apparently, but in a limited way. As we know from Mockingbird, Scout grew up revering her father and then returns to Monroe as an adult in Watchman and is shocked and disgusted to learn he holds Segregationist views. Her publishing house is saying it is the novel she wanted essentially unedited.

eta: from reviews, it sounds like the point of the novel is to depict that time in your life when you realize that your parents or the older people you idolized as a child may have clay feet and that people are always more complex than you may think at first glance. 

[Knight]

Jul 13, 2015 7:39:24 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

I haven't read it but I have read a bunch of reviews. Basically, this is the book Harper Lee wanted to publish but it was seen as too incendiary at the time and so she was told to rewrite it from Scout's POV and to focus less on the Civil Rights movement and more on the everyday doings in a small southern town. Watchman refers to the events in Mockingbird, such as the trial, apparently, but in a limited way. As we know from Mockingbird, Scout grew up revering her father and then returns to Monroe as an adult in Watchman and is shocked and disgusted to learn he holds Segregationist views. Her publishing house is saying it is the novel she wanted essentially unedited.

eta: from reviews, it sounds like the point of the novel is to depict that time in your life when you realize that your parents or the older people you idolized as a child may have clay feet and that people are always more complex than you may think at first glance. 

That's all very poignant and everything but I'm just gonna pretend this book doesn't exist.

[irishbride2]

Jul 13, 2015 7:39:24 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

I haven't read it but I have read a bunch of reviews. Basically, this is the book Harper Lee wanted to publish but it was seen as too incendiary at the time and so she was told to rewrite it from Scout's POV and to focus less on the Civil Rights movement and more on the everyday doings in a small southern town. Watchman refers to the events in Mockingbird, such as the trial, apparently, but in a limited way. As we know from Mockingbird, Scout grew up revering her father and then returns to Monroe as an adult in Watchman and is shocked and disgusted to learn he holds Segregationist views. Her publishing house is saying it is the novel she wanted essentially unedited.

eta: from reviews, it sounds like the point of the novel is to depict that time in your life when you realize that your parents or the older people you idolized as a child may have clay feet and that people are always more complex than you may think at first glance. 

But she had the ability to publish it for years and years and decided against it.

I have not decided if I will read it yet. 

[NewOrleans]

Yeah, I read about what had "happened" to Atticus.

I can't, you guys. You know-- you KNOW-- how very much I love Mockingbird and worship Atticus Finch.

[IIOY]

I confess to not paying close attention to this story at all, but I have noticed random authors on Twitter express support for Harper Lee's creative license. I have no idea if they represent mainstream writers' collective opinion, if there is such a thing.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 8:25:06 GMT -5 Catlawdy said:

Jul 13, 2015 8:12:20 GMT -5 irishbride2 said:

But she had the ability to publish it for years and years and decided against it.

I have not decided if I will read it yet. 

I wish we could know more about why she didn't move forward with publication.  Was it a concern about the second novel being a flop? Concern about reaction to the portrayal of the Atticus after he'd become such an icon?

The possibility of this being a situation where she was manipulated concerns me, but I'm intrigued by the story of how her views of her father changed over the years and the portrayal of him as a man with faults.  

I'm curious about that too. I wonder if the motivation to release it now has less to do with her and more to do with her publisher? (i.e. maybe she wanted to publish it all along but the company held back out of concern for hurting Mockingbird sales. But maybe they need a big new release now?) Considering she almost never gives interviews, we'll probably never know unfortunately. 

It it is pretty well established that Attitcus is based on her father who she revered as a child and then was later disillusioned by as an adult. I'm interested in reading it for that reason. It could offer an interesting contrast with Mockingbird in showing the differences between how a child views someyhing and how an adult interprets the same events. Some reviews have been positive in saying that it is a more realistic, nuanced (and thus more interesting) portrayal of the ups and downs Civil Rights era. In real life, her father did eventually come to change his views on Segregation so maybe Atticus does in the book as well.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 13, 2015 7:39:24 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

I haven't read it but I have read a bunch of reviews. Basically, this is the book Harper Lee wanted to publish but it was seen as too incendiary at the time and so she was told to rewrite it from Scout's POV and to focus less on the Civil Rights movement and more on the everyday doings in a small southern town. Watchman refers to the events in Mockingbird, such as the trial, apparently, but in a limited way. As we know from Mockingbird, Scout grew up revering her father and then returns to Monroe as an adult in Watchman and is shocked and disgusted to learn he holds Segregationist views. Her publishing house is saying it is the novel she wanted essentially unedited.

eta: from reviews, it sounds like the point of the novel is to depict that time in your life when you realize that your parents or the older people you idolized as a child may have clay feet and that people are always more complex than you may think at first glance. 

Yes, she wrote this before TKaM.  It was the book TKaM was supposed to be.  they liked the flashbacks to childhood and told her to make that childhood live.

for your eta, that makes sense.  She transformed that idea into TKaM with their growing awareness of Atticus and her seeing the other sides of side characters like Aunt Alexandra, Boo, and Mrs. DuBose.

[Deleted]

If popular opinion turns against Watchman, do you think To Kill a Mockingbird will lose it's place in the cannon?

[FloFTW]

I don't think I want to read it. TKAM is my favorite book. My daughter is named after Harper Lee. I still feel like she didn't want this published.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 13, 2015 8:54:53 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

If popular opinion turns against Watchman, do you think To Kill a Mockingbird will lose it's place in the cannon?

No.

Serious scholars (ie canon setters) know better than to hold an earlier draft of Mockingbird against Lee.  And schools aren't about to stop teaching it.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 8:58:14 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Jul 13, 2015 8:54:53 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

If popular opinion turns against Watchman, do you think To Kill a Mockingbird will lose it's place in the cannon?

No.

Serious scholars (ie canon setters) know better than to hold an earlier draft of Mockingbird against Lee.  And schools aren't about to stop teaching it.

Do you think you will start teaching them together? It could be interesting just from the idea of Watchman being an earlier draft and seeing the changes she made.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 13, 2015 9:00:10 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

Jul 13, 2015 8:58:14 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

No.

Serious scholars (ie canon setters) know better than to hold an earlier draft of Mockingbird against Lee.  And schools aren't about to stop teaching it.

Do you think you will start teaching them together? It could be interesting just from the idea of Watchman being an earlier draft and seeing the changes she made.

I don't think high school teachers have time to do an additional novel.  A specialized class or a college class on revisions/pairings, for sure.

[wawa]

Given that this new (old) book is apparently supposed to be at least in part about learning that parents that you might have idolized are complex and imperfect people...I find it interesting that so many people are all, "NOOOOO!!! You can't tarnish my Atticus!!"

I mean...the whole point appears to be that he's never actually been perfect except through the eyes of his child? (which is how we all know him)

I dunno. I'm intrigued though and want to reread TKAM and then read this one and see what I think.

[jeaniebueller]

Jul 13, 2015 9:10:56 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley1 said:

So, I can only find speculation about the fact that Lee is being taken advantage of by having this book released--none of the articles I found name anybody who is behind the publication.

While I love TKAM with all my heart and soul, I don't understand the hysteria surrounding the fact that Atticus Finch, the fictional character, may have become a crusty racist in his old age. It happens to real people too, which is awful, but it happens.

There is an article in Bloomberg BusinessWeek that mentions a law partner of Harper Lee's sister who was handling some of her affairs and found the manuscript. www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-harper-lee-go-set-a-watchman/

[wawa]

Jul 13, 2015 9:10:56 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley1 said:

So, I can only find speculation about the fact that Lee is being taken advantage of by having this book released--none of the articles I found name anybody who is behind the publication.

While I love TKAM with all my heart and soul, I don't understand the hysteria surrounding the fact that Atticus Finch, the fictional character, may have become a crusty racist in his old age. It happens to real people too, which is awful, but it happens.

Or always was.  Believing that a black man deserves justice doesn't mean you believe he should be able to sit next to you at a lunch counter or buy the house next door or send hi kids to school with your kids.   There are plenty of people NOW that would vehemently support a black man's right to a fair trial, to legal representation, to freedom from false accusations, etc...but shit, man, you don't want one of them dating your sister now would you?  I mean...it's just a different culture.  Nothing against black folks, but we're better off keeping to our own kind. 

I have HEARD people my own age say shit like that.   No crustiness about it...just racist.

ETA: I will freely admit that I may be forgetting a ton of nuance in TKAM that makes it clear that Atticus is in no way racist.  I only remember the broad plot - it's been a long ass time. 

[NewOrleans]

Jul 13, 2015 9:11:54 GMT -5 wawa said:

Given that this new (old) book is apparently supposed to be at least in part about learning that parents that you might have idolized are complex and imperfect people...I find it interesting that so many people are all, "NOOOOO!!! You can't tarnish my Atticus!!"

I mean...the whole point appears to be that he's never actually been perfect except through the eyes of his child? (which is how we all know him)

I dunno. I'm intrigued though and want to reread TKAM and then read this one and see what I think.

Interesting take on it.

I think it's hard for people because this "rewrites" his character.  

Although  I guess we have to remember that this isn't really a sequel. It's not even a rewrite. In this world, Mockingbird didn't exist. So Atticus may not have so strongly taught the lessons of empathy and justice in *this* Scout's childhood.  He may not have stood so strongly for fairness in *this* Scout's past. Meaning his character doesn't actually change.  This is the character he always was, because the man he was in Mockingbird doesn't exist, because Mockingbird doesn't exist. 

That at is some metaphysical, existential shit. LOL.

no idea why there are italics.

[CallingAllAngels]

Is it a good book? I mean, besides ruining Atticus? I think the theme of growing up and learning your parents are flawed is a very compelling one.

[pixy0stix]

I'll just ditto wawa.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2015 9:19:31 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

So, I wonder if people will stop using Atticus and Scout as baby names.

I was wondering this too! Lol

[2doxies]

Jul 13, 2015 9:19:31 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

So, I wonder if people will stop using Atticus and Scout as baby names.

That's what I was thinking, are these off the hipster baby name list?

[sushi]

Yeah, I have no problem with this.

Both are interesting premises. Both are compelling. Having a life changing experience as a child is no better or worse than a deeper understanding of that in adulthood.

[halle1der]

Ugh, I have felt so conflicted about this book since I'd first heard of it, mostly due to the elder abuse allegations of Lee, and then the synopsis came out. I almost cancelled my pre-order because I just don't want to imagine a universe where Atticus is not the pure hero I've always thought of him as. Got my notification last night that Amazon has shipped my pre-order, though, and I still haven't decided if I'm going to keep the book or return it. TKAMB is one of my very favorite books, and I may just want to stay unaware of any character development outside of TKAMB.

[irishbride2]

I want to clarify that I have no problem with the book having a different take or perspective. I'm just not sure how I feel about how it went about being published, especially given this particular author and her feelings about privacy. That's all. I'm undecided.

[NewOrleans]

You guys have helped me with a personal crisis through this thread. I'm not actually kidding.