Dave Ramsey Questions

[SJ]

OK I will try to keep this simple. BIL/SIL are a mess financially. They married young, are both dreamer/head-in-the clouds types, etc. They have a lot of debt (high interest), small incomes, and no idea where to start. The family has tried everything.

We think Dave Ramsey's classes might help things "click" and break things down into simple steps they can follow. They can do it together and make a plan.

They have agreed and are signed up to start.

BUT

DH & I are doing it with them. If you know anything about our situation, you know that I have quite a different personal philosophy on handling finance than Dave Ramsey does. I'm not saying his advice is bad. I know he and his methods have helped MANY MANY people which is awesome. We are just maybe not the target audience.

My main questions are:

1) If you went through FPU, was it helpful? What did you like and dislike?

2) How much were you expected/asked to share about your personal financial situation? I am really hoping to avoid this as there are already enough money issues in the family without them having a breakdown of our net worth statement

3) What else can you tell me?

We are truly doing this out of a desire to help them and present this as a team effort, not to single them out and "tell" them what to do. I am trying to prepare and have an open mind! (but if I start posting about cutting down our investments or selling crap in order to get rid of low interest debt, SLAP ME!)

[sjh722]

LOL!

I have not taken his class; I have the same objections to his philosophy as you do, but like you said, I think it's helpful for people who are totally lost financially.

That said, my impression from people who have taken it has been that it's more of a lesson + seminar/conversation with general questions, not sharing of your personal financial situation and debts.

[cahabalily]

It was helpful for us. Before that, H hated to discuss money, and budgeting was like pulling teeth.

FPU made it click for him, and we have paid off $8K in debt since February.

I don't like the no cc suggestions. We still use a rewards card and pay it off every month. I didn't like not savingmore than a grand while paying debt. I think DR is condescending and oht of touch with reality, but some people really do need his illustrations to get it.

If this is the last resort, do it. You can share as much or as little as you want.

[bliss]

I liked Suze Orman's advice over DR. I just think he's a bit of a tool and doesn't understand reality, or the reality that poor people face.

Are you prepared to deal with whatever happens if even after DR they still don't grasp money they way you think they should? I mean, what if they don't ever change their ways?

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 15:17:58 GMT -5 cahabalily said:

I didn't like not savingmore than a grand while paying debt.

What I don't like about this advice is the one-size-fits-all nature of it. If you own a house and have children, it's probably insufficient.

I took it when I was in law school, so having $1,000 in the bank was a huge freaking deal.

For your BIL & SIL, I would think that a $1,000-$2,000 emergency fund while paying down debt would be sufficient.

[SJ]

Aug 17, 2012 15:23:49 GMT -5 bliss said:

Are you prepared to deal with whatever happens if even after DR they still don't grasp money they way you think they should? I mean, what if they don't ever change their ways?

I think so. I mean, that is our reality now.

[rubytue]

I have no idea about his courses (other than I don't agree with his philosophy either), but I kept doing a double take on the main page when I saw your name and DR. lol

I think its great you are doing that to support them. I hope it helps keep them on track. Good luck to them!

[SJ]

Aug 17, 2012 16:23:54 GMT -5 rubytue said:

I have no idea about his courses (other than I don't agree with his philosophy either), but I kept doing a double take on the main page when I saw your name and DR. lol

I think its great you are doing that to support them. I hope it helps keep them on track. Good luck to them!

Thank you!!! The fact that we are doing this reveals the amount of stress this has caused in our family, my marriage, work life, etc. For reasons far too complicated to explain here, we are very affected by them and their decisions.

I couldn't stop laughing when I signed up for the course (using my beloved USBank FlexPerks card of course) and was stopped cold in my tracks. The only payment options were Debit Card and Bank Draft.

At least the man is consistent!

[lolzlala]

It was helpful for my H, mostly boring and eyeroll worthy to me, we'd dis it after quite a bit (it's super preachy to boot!) but we took it together because he never learned how to deal with money from his parents, who are bad with money themselves (his credit was trash, missed payments in the past due to forgetfullnes/stupid spending, etc etc.)

In the end it helped him, and I got to see that there are people at all ends of the income spectrum that overspend their means (we didn't have to disclose income but between the vehicles, and allusion from those who liked to share alot, we were probably the lowest income people there while also the only ones not behind on any debt).

We didn't have to share our personal situations per se, but we did have to share situations in which we ______ (insert behavior associated with lesson here) during certain classes. We also had to share our debt by writing it down and throwing it into a pot for the leader to add up at the start and the end.

I took the 'old' format - I only know this because I still get spammy emails from his site. I don't know about the new one, just that its shorter (yay, you!) Be ready for lots of marketing and preaching from the bible.

[pamela]

He is definitely consistent. If you're going to help them, I'd just play along in class. When asked if you've completed baby step #1 for example, you can say yes. And go from there. I would avoid pointing out where you think he's wrong in class though.

[SJ]

Aug 17, 2012 16:45:04 GMT -5 pamela said:

I would avoid pointing out where you think he's wrong in class though.

I will try with every fiber of my being!

I just get so stuck on the idea that you shouldn't start saving for retirement until ALL non-mortgage debt is gone. I will have a hard time if others ask for advice and the advice given is clearly wrong (ignoring company matches, etc.)

It would make a lot more sense to me if the snowball was for HIGH INTEREST debt, but in this environment why would you delay saving, investing and building wealth until student loans and car loans are gone if the rates are low enough?

I'll try to vent other places so I can be as agreeable and helpful as possible in class

[bliss]

It's not that it's wrong it just doesn't always make sense for some people to do it your way. In my experience, the advice I receive from MM doesn't always make the most sense for my financial house. Some of what DR says makes more sense to my financial house than what MM says and vice versa. MM tells me I don't take advice, well contributing to my 401k isn't the best option when I'm not making enough to even cover the basics, KWIM.

I'm not sure why but something about your motivate behind this rubs me the wrong way. I would personally be very annoyed if my bro and SIL were signing me up for a finance class.

Good luck. I hope you get out of it what you are hoping.

ETA - Using examples here. I do contribute to my 401K, I believe you helped me understand the uber confusing language.

[womet]

sarajoy-- my DH came home tonight and said he saw a sign for FPU outside our church. He wants to go now but ONLY if Dave is there himself. I told him to be MM and just read TMM (which we own) but that we'd go if Dave was there. So please tell me that Dave isn't at each FPU.

[SJ]

Aug 17, 2012 17:23:21 GMT -5 bliss said:

I'm not sure why but something about your motivate behind this rubs me the wrong way. I would personally be very annoyed if my bro and SIL were signing me up for a finance class.

Good luck. I hope you get out of it what you are hoping.

I appreciate your honesty. They really don't seem to be bothered. They were willing to take the class- but seemed more interested if we did it together.

They got engaged after 3 months of dating at the age of 18. Neither of them had ever had a job, a checking account, or filed a tax return when they got married. They are very aware that they are completely lacking in this area and they both want and need help. The whole situation is far more enmeshed than I would have chosen, and there are a lot of other things going on.

We really are doing this with good intentions. If there is a chance this will help them, DH and I are happy to attend and offer support.

I joke around here because many posters know me and DR doesn't happen to agree with my personal and professional opinions on many subjects. I am very aware that there is not one financial method or plan that works for everyone. My clients are all extremely high net worth and so of course the professional advice I get paid to dispense does not apply to people making $25,000/year. I said multiple times that DR's methods have worked well for many people and that is great.

[SJ]

Aug 17, 2012 17:24:45 GMT -5 womet said:

sarajoy-- my DH came home tonight and said he saw a sign for FPU outside our church. He wants to go now but ONLY if Dave is there himself. I told him to be MM and just read TMM (which we own) but that we'd go if Dave was there. So please tell me that Dave isn't at each FPU.

I am confident that Dave himself is not at each FPU. I believe they use a video series of him speaking.

[krystee]

You will probably be in the first wave of the newly designed FPU course. It is all new beginning this month or September. It's 9 weeks, instead of 13, and 90 minutes a week instead of two hours. (Good timing--you saved four weeks of frustration!)

I TOTALLY disagree with his retirement advice, but you have to keep in mind that his target audience is not people with giant salaries. They often can't make a ton of debt progress if they're also contributing the recommended amount to retirement. He tells them that you should only stop retirement if you are getting crazy intense and will be out of debt quickly. If you're going to half-ass it, you shouldn't stop retirement.

Even though I disagree with his retirement advice and some other things, I actually did like the class. It got us thinking about things we needed to think about and helped us get on the same page. I know you two are much more financially savvy than we were, so it probably won't be as helpful. But what a great thing you are doing for your family!!

[SJ]

Aug 17, 2012 17:33:21 GMT -5 krystee said:

Even though I disagree with his retirement advice and some other things, I actually did like the class. It got us thinking about things we needed to think about and helped us get on the same page. I know you two are much more financially savvy than we were, so it probably won't be as helpful. But what a great thing you are doing for your family!!

I am hoping we can still get some great things out of it. No matter your income level or financial acumen, most couples can use a tune up from time to time! Fresh motivation to stock to the budget, etc. DH isn't very involved with our finances so it should at least spark good discussion for that.

[troopersmom]

I've been through it and it really helped get the ball rolling on paying off credit cards, cars, and student loans a lot faster than we would have before. I love the cash envelopes systems b/c it works better for us that way. Also you aren't required to share anything $ wise we only knew what you choose to share. We had on couple who were both pharmacists and I was a daycare teacher at that point making minimum wage, but we both shared the same issues either over spending and not enough saving.
I really hope it helps your BIL and SIL and maybe you'll learn something you didn't know.

[Deleted]

I never took FPU and never been on his plan or anything but I ended up joining his online forum out of curiousity; the people I heard on his radio show just sounded so driven. Anyway, lots of the forum members who has taken the class and claims to be following his plan don't really follow his plan to a T; a few don't agree with the $1k emergency fund nor the no investing until all non-mortgage debt are paid.

Good luck.

[Roc A Bee]

Do you guys rent your rental to your BIL?

[nicoliae]

Just to mention, if your BIL & SIL do like DR and are christians there is a free forum they could visit. They follow the plan to a T over there and some discussions can get very religion based. It's called www.llnoe.com. I've browsed the forum and it seems to be great for keeping people on track. But don't you dare go there if you don't follow/believe everything. They are ban happy people.

[lolzlala]

Aug 17, 2012 19:43:06 GMT -5 @nicoliae said:

Just to mention, if your BIL & SIL do like DR and are christians there is a free forum they could visit. They follow the plan to a T over there and some discussions can get very religion based. It's called www.llnoe.com. I've browsed the forum and it seems to be great for keeping people on track. But don't you dare go there if you don't follow/believe everything. They are ban happy people.

LOL is that why I couldn't access them after not returning for awhile once we finished the class. There was one chick on there who was all gung ho on every step to the T and I had to LOL - Every answer to everyone was pissypants 'you *need* to do _____ because DR says so, no other way works.' Sorry, $500 in the bank for a low income earner for an EF is not realistic in the least. A car tow with a small fix can cost more than that, and as low income earners our cars were ~10 years old and ~10 years older than me, not to mention sudden medical expenses and such possibilities. I came to the conclusion that... apparently DR was her God. After that I quit asking questions there.

[heygrey]

just remember that his method is entirely wrapped up in the emotional response and while it doesn't always make the most financial sense, it's history proves that it's a solid method for helping people who are completely clueless.

i read tmm just after we got married and it was the kick we needed to start being more responsible. around that time i joined mm and started cross referencing - dave says to do this, mm advises this... which applies best in our situation? sometimes we make the most financially savvy decision, sometimes we choose the thing that brings the most emotional gratification.

right now your siblings need the emotional gratification or they are going to quit and fall back to their old ways. keep encouraging that, because even if it's not the best decision it's still a better one.

[SJ]

Aug 17, 2012 19:20:38 GMT -5 Roc A Bee said:

Do you guys rent your rental to your BIL?

Yes.

[thelongroad]

Aug 17, 2012 15:09:15 GMT -5 SJ said:

1) If you went through FPU, was it helpful? What did you like and dislike? It was incredibly helpful. Financial stuff was our only issue and it really got us on the same page. We have paid off over $10,000 in debt in the last year, but most importantly, we have the same goals.

2) How much were you expected/asked to share about your personal financial situation? We weren't expected to share anything. We sat in groups and just talked about ideas and principles. We could share our budget if we chose, but everyone kind of steered clear of that. Really wasn't an issue.


3) What else can you tell me?

I don't agree 100% with everything Dave Ramsey promoted, but it made a world of difference for our marriage. We are over a year out form taking the class and we have changed things to our liking but still follow the same idea. Don't close your mind to it.