Ruling in favor of UC student accused of sex assault could ripple

[secretlyevil]

My gut reaction in sexual assault cases is guilty until proven innocent. That may not be fair but too often the victims are victimized even more and justice is not served. However, especially in higher ed, there seems to be one extreme or the other. They don't know how to balance? Maybe the answer is for sexual assault cases to automatically be handled by the real justice system and then the school's "court" can rule for academic whatever after the case is settled by the police, etc.

[5thofjuly]

Jul 16, 2015 10:34:15 GMT -5 secretlyevil said:

My gut reaction in sexual assault cases is guilty until proven innocent. That may not be fair but too often the victims are victimized even more and justice is not served. However, especially in higher ed, there seems to be one extreme or the other. They don't know how to balance? Maybe the answer is for sexual assault cases to automatically be handled by the real justice system and then the school's "court" can rule for academic whatever after the case is settled by the police, etc.

This is so, so hard. I'm not a detective or a judge or an attorney. I'm a sociology professor with three days of training on sexual assault investigation. I signed up to do it wanting to make sure that, if it is to be done (and federal mandate says it is to be done) it wouldn't just be the coach of the big team or some neanderthal from the X department or a 19 year old RA. The thought of actually taking on a case is scary as hell. When it comes up, I definitely want to make sure that the alleged victim knows that they have the right to contact the police for a criminal investigation to take place, and I'd like to find a way to encourage them to do so without leading them, but, at the same time, they also have the right not to contact the police. I wouldn't want to force them to have to do so. Either way, there's no good way to deal with this. 

[Cicero]

Jul 16, 2015 10:34:15 GMT -5 secretlyevil said:

My gut reaction in sexual assault cases is guilty until proven innocent. That may not be fair but too often the victims are victimized even more and justice is not served. However, especially in higher ed, there seems to be one extreme or the other. They don't know how to balance? Maybe the answer is for sexual assault cases to automatically be handled by the real justice system and then the school's "court" can rule for academic whatever after the case is settled by the police, etc.

How can someone possibly be proven innocent if they aren't even allowed to ask questions of the person who is accusing them? Or allowed to know what testimony has even been given against you?

[ttt]

I don't think schools should be handling sexual assault cases at all. They don't handle homicide cases, do they? Or armed robbery? Why are they handling sex crimes? Leave that to the actual justice system.

[cattledogkisses]

Jul 16, 2015 12:52:19 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't think schools should be handling sexual assault cases at all. They don't handle homicide cases, do they? Or armed robbery? Why are they handling sex crimes? Leave that to the actual justice system.

A thousand times this. Let the people with the resources and training to investigate crimes handle this.

Plus, universities aren't exactly disinterested parties when it comes to sexual assault cases. No university wants to be known for sexual assaults, so I could see that going one of two ways: either they're going to want to minimize this stuff and sweep it under the rug, or they're going to come down overly hard on the accused so they can look like they take a firm stance. 

[mouse]

Jul 16, 2015 12:52:19 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't think schools should be handling sexual assault cases at all. They don't handle homicide cases, do they? Or armed robbery? Why are they handling sex crimes? Leave that to the actual justice system.

But they're not handling it criminally, they are deciding whether someone potentially predatory should be allowed on campus, etc.

And I believe they do handle other assaults, even if they don't rise to the level of being prosecutable, if you're fighting on campus you can expect to be suspended or expelled.

[5thofjuly]

Jul 16, 2015 13:22:04 GMT -5 mouse said:

Jul 16, 2015 12:52:19 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't think schools should be handling sexual assault cases at all. They don't handle homicide cases, do they? Or armed robbery? Why are they handling sex crimes? Leave that to the actual justice system.

But they're not handling it criminally, they are deciding whether someone potentially predatory should be allowed on campus, etc.

And I believe they do handle other assaults, even if they don't rise to the level of being prosecutable, if you're fighting on campus you can expect to be suspended or expelled.

It got explained to me as being like plagiarism or theft or assault on campus. We're deciding if someone violated the student code of conduct and, if so, what punishment within the code to dole out. I still don't like it, though.

[ttt]

Jul 16, 2015 18:14:51 GMT -5 5thofjuly said:

Jul 16, 2015 13:22:04 GMT -5 mouse said:

But they're not handling it criminally, they are deciding whether someone potentially predatory should be allowed on campus, etc.

And I believe they do handle other assaults, even if they don't rise to the level of being prosecutable, if you're fighting on campus you can expect to be suspended or expelled.

It got explained to me as being like plagiarism or theft or assault on campus. We're deciding if someone violated the student code of conduct and, if so, what punishment within the code to dole out. I still don't like it, though.

Does the student code of conduct not cover killing someone or holding up a convenience store? 

I have major problems with universities viewing sexual assault on the same level of seriousness as plagiarism. 

[5thofjuly]

Jul 16, 2015 21:25:05 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 16, 2015 18:14:51 GMT -5 5thofjuly said:

It got explained to me as being like plagiarism or theft or assault on campus. We're deciding if someone violated the student code of conduct and, if so, what punishment within the code to dole out. I still don't like it, though.

Does the student code of conduct not cover killing someone or holding up a convenience store? 

I have major problems with universities viewing sexual assault on the same level of seriousness as plagiarism. 

I want to clarify that it's definitely not viewed as the same level of seriousness. My apologies if I was unclear. In fact, the trainer who came in to work with us said, "If you're not planning to use your expulsion penalty for rape, what the hell are you saving it for?"