WaPo Opinion: It’s not Dixie’s fault

[heyjude]

TL; dr version: people in the north are racist too.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 21, 2015 8:23:15 GMT -5 heyjude said:

TL; dr version: people in the north are racist too.

Also, there are VietNamese people working on shrimp boats (aka we have black friends), so the South is totes melting pot.  

I can't really articulate how stupid a point this article makes, and it doesn't touch many of the reasons the South is still a pain in America's ass.

[ttt]

You all *know* that I will be the first to blast this backward-ass state, but I think there are some good points here. The South is a lot more integrated and a lot more diverse than a lot of people realize.

[josieposy]

I get the point they are trying to make. Honestly I don't have to go further than my own newspaper comment section to know that racism is alive and well here.

[charminglife]

It's easier to attack and condemn overt displays of racism than it is to unpack discriminatory housing practices. Racism in the south makes for easy headlines and tweets - like 1234FIF!! said, Boston really is one of the most racist places in the US - just listen to WEEI for 10 minutes.

[origami]

I think it's easy for northerners to see things like a slave flag flying over a govt building and conclude we don't have pressing racial issues to fix because we aren't THAT bad. Instead of realizing we aren't better, our issues just manifest themselves differently.

[NewOrleans]

I get what you guys are saying (glass houses and stones, don't forget about racist systems in the North when you point to KKK type of Southern activity) but this article reads more like "they do it too!!!" to me.

[tacosforlife]

Jul 21, 2015 9:33:58 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I get what you guys are saying (glass houses and stones, don't forget about racist systems in the North when you point to KKK type of Southern activity) but this article reads more like "they do it too!!!" to me.

I didn't read the article, so I'm just agreeing with comments in the thread.

People who don't think there is systemic racism and discrimination outside the South are either ignorant or delusional.

[msmerymac]

You know how they say that people who actually have friends and neighbors and are exposed to people who are different (different race, religion, sexual orientation) become more tolerant? I feel like it's one kind of racism to live in Idaho and not know any black people and just grow up believing stereotypes others tell you, never questioning the source. It's a different kind of racism to live in a diverse community and still create a hierarchy in your mind that puts you above other people around you. If that makes sense.

The south isn't the only place where that exists, of course. And it's not like the Pacific Northwest is accidentally racist and people there don't mean it or something. Just that there are different facets of racism, I guess? And I don't think it's necessarily bad to say, "Wow, 1/3 of the population of SC is black, and blacks and whites have lived together here forever, so... WTF is going on?" As long as you don't push the entirety of the blame there.

[zelda25]

Jul 21, 2015 9:33:58 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I get what you guys are saying (glass houses and stones, don't forget about racist systems in the North when you point to KKK type of Southern activity) but this article reads more like "they do it too!!!" to me.

I don't think so. What I'm seeing is (a really long, winding, roundabout way of saying) that it's easy and comfy for we Northerners to blame the South for our country's ills while continuing to ignore the garbage going on everywhere else, but that's pure scapegoating. The entire country is a seething shithole of racism--the South is just more open about it than the North. Heaping all the blame on the South is just a stall tactic so the rest of the country can keep pretending that it's enlightened and color-blind.

[eclaires]

I think focusing on one region, and one way racism manifests itself in our society, allows white people to stick their heads in the sand and say "well not me! I'm not like that! I'm not racist!" It lets us tell ourselves that since we don't act like that, we're not racist and we can separate ourselves from racists and be different from "those white people," who are the real racists, the real danger.

Which is sort of the most dangerous thing, IMO, about racism and this country (I mean, when it comes to racism continuing in this country)...

[mrshandy]

Jul 21, 2015 10:25:52 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I think focusing on one region, and one way racism manifests itself in our society, allows white people to stick their heads in the sand and say "well not me! I'm not like that! I'm not racist!" It lets us tell ourselves that since we don't act like that, we're not racist and we can separate ourselves from racists and be different from "those white people," who are the real racists, the real danger.

Which is sort of the most dangerous thing, IMO, about racism and this country (I mean, when it comes to racism continuing in this country)...

True.

But this is is S/O question, do we have examples of a region/area/state that is doing it right? Or is this a pipe dream?

What can we learn from these areas and the policies that they've enacted to fight institutional racism?

Is it a matter of having a body of elected officials that match the racial makeup of the region?

[eclaires]

Jul 21, 2015 10:30:36 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

Jul 21, 2015 10:25:52 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I think focusing on one region, and one way racism manifests itself in our society, allows white people to stick their heads in the sand and say "well not me! I'm not like that! I'm not racist!" It lets us tell ourselves that since we don't act like that, we're not racist and we can separate ourselves from racists and be different from "those white people," who are the real racists, the real danger.

Which is sort of the most dangerous thing, IMO, about racism and this country (I mean, when it comes to racism continuing in this country)...

True.

But this is is S/O question, do we have examples of a region/area/state that is doing it right? Or is this a pipe dream?

What can we learn from these areas and the policies that they've enacted to fight institutional racism?

Is it a matter of having a body of elected officials that match the racial makeup of the region?

I don't know...but it seems like a big problem right now is getting people to even acknowledge racism in this country and that we're not post-racial.  I feel like anything that shifts the focus or allows people to sort of tell themselves that they aren't part of the problem is, well, actually a huge problem.

[heyjude]

I don't think NewOrleans or I take any issue with the idea that racism in the north shouldn't be ignored. Far from it. Racism in the north is a real thing that may manifest itself differently than in the south but it is still racism (e.g see CA's prop 13; high property taxes for schools were fine as long as those schools were populated by mostly white kids, but as soon as the brown kids moved in, hands off mah money!). No one here disputes that. And no thoughtful or even half thoughtful person should suggest otherwise. I think we, or it's just I, take issue with the logic going in the article. There's a racial attack in the south. And the headline reads "don't blame Dixie" presumably for this racial attack. Then the article goes into all the ways the north is racist too. It's just a little illogical in its structure. But the idea that the north is racist, is not in any dispute.

[ESF]

Yes, racism exists everywhere. I think in the Northeast, California, and some of the cities mentioned in the article, one of the reasons why the institutional, structural racisms is so deeply entrenched and getting worse is because of the tremendous wealth in those places, and people just don't see or just don't care about the consequences of their decisions. when your property value is approaching a million bucks, you'll be a hell of a lot more willing to spend money to support policies that will protect that property value. Which is why San Francisco may be the most rapidly gentrifying place in America right now. And while everyone says they think schools should be diverse, few people - even very progressive people - want to use their kid to make a political point, and will pack up and move out of the diverse neighborhood, into the fancy rich white one to get the better school district. I imagine this sort of issue arises more in areas with increased economic mobility and good public schooling options, like wealthy cities in blue states. So yeah, I can easily see how and why certain places we view as not racist are more segregated than the south. I've said before that I think we need more smart urban policy people at the highest levels of government, and this is yet another reason why.

That said, if the South would like to shed its reputation of being the most backwards place in America, it could stop electing loudmouth bigoted jackasses to national and state office.

[msmerymac]

Jul 21, 2015 10:30:36 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

Jul 21, 2015 10:25:52 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I think focusing on one region, and one way racism manifests itself in our society, allows white people to stick their heads in the sand and say "well not me! I'm not like that! I'm not racist!" It lets us tell ourselves that since we don't act like that, we're not racist and we can separate ourselves from racists and be different from "those white people," who are the real racists, the real danger.

Which is sort of the most dangerous thing, IMO, about racism and this country (I mean, when it comes to racism continuing in this country)...

True.

But this is is S/O question, do we have examples of a region/area/state that is doing it right? Or is this a pipe dream?

What can we learn from these areas and the policies that they've enacted to fight institutional racism?

Is it a matter of having a body of elected officials that match the racial makeup of the region?

I don't know man. This country was built on institutional racism. While you can enact policies to combat it, I don't think any individual government or area can eliminate it entirely. #pessimist

[msmerymac]

Jul 21, 2015 10:30:30 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

Jul 21, 2015 10:00:35 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

You know how they say that people who actually have friends and neighbors and are exposed to people who are different (different race, religion, sexual orientation) become more tolerant? I feel like it's one kind of racism to live in Idaho and not know any black people and just grow up believing stereotypes others tell you, never questioning the source. It's a different kind of racism to live in a diverse community and still create a hierarchy in your mind that puts you above other people around you. If that makes sense.

The south isn't the only place where that exists, of course. And it's not like the Pacific Northwest is accidentally racist and people there don't mean it or something. Just that there are different facets of racism, I guess? And I don't think it's necessarily bad to say, "Wow, 1/3 of the population of SC is black, and blacks and whites have lived together here forever, so... WTF is going on?" As long as you don't push the entirety of the blame there.

dude, actually the opposite is true - the more you are exposed to others, the more racist you become. i know its counter intuitive, but studies have shown it to be true. we have had posts about it before.

i will see if i can google-fu

One study saying that vaguely rings a bell, and if you can find it, I'd like to read it again. 

But I still maintain that racism exists in all areas, racially diverse and not. So is the root cause the same? Why do places as different as Atlanta and Missoula both have people who are racist? If there is more than one thing that causes individuals or structures to be racially biased, then can we figure it out and attack all the root causes?

[ESF]

Jul 21, 2015 10:30:36 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

Jul 21, 2015 10:25:52 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I think focusing on one region, and one way racism manifests itself in our society, allows white people to stick their heads in the sand and say "well not me! I'm not like that! I'm not racist!" It lets us tell ourselves that since we don't act like that, we're not racist and we can separate ourselves from racists and be different from "those white people," who are the real racists, the real danger.

Which is sort of the most dangerous thing, IMO, about racism and this country (I mean, when it comes to racism continuing in this country)...

True.

But this is is S/O question, do we have examples of a region/area/state that is doing it right? Or is this a pipe dream?

What can we learn from these areas and the policies that they've enacted to fight institutional racism?

Is it a matter of having a body of elected officials that match the racial makeup of the region?

Really, it takes buy in from the community.

I'm in Berkeley, which is by no means a model of economic integration.  There's definitely a rich white people area, and a poor black people area, and lots of limousine liberals. 

 But the city works really, really hard at making sure there's affordable housing.  It's one of the most economically diverse cites in the entire SF Bay area for that reason.  It also has an amazing elementary school lottery system where they do a ton of work to make sure schools are diverse across income lines.  It works because there's tremendous buy-in from the community.   You don't move here with your kids unless you are up for living in a socialist paradise.  But because the schools are adequately funded and generally desirable places to work, they perform pretty well as compared to the rest of the state.  The city gives plenty of money to its amazing public parks and libraries, and generally supports an infrastructure that facilitates socioeconomic mobility. Voters generally vote for against things that contribute to gentrification, increased poverty, and homelessness, and for things that would help alleviate them.

It's by no means perfect, but it's doing more than what a lot of places are doing. It does it because nobody who doesn't like these things would choose to move here.