Bedtime help (3-year-old)

[water*drop]

We need help with bedtime. DD is 3 and generally doesn't nap, but the bedtime struggles don't really change regardless of whether or not she napped that day. She gets up for the day around 7:00. She's in bed by 8:15ish, but it's usually 10:00 before she falls asleep. She's always been at the low end of Ferber's sleep needs table, so we don't necessarily care if she doesn't go to sleep at 8:00, but we care very much about the massive fit that she throws from 8-10.

Our bedtime routine is bath, pajamas, brush teeth, potty, 10 minutes of books/songs with me, 10 minutes of books/songs with DH, and then she's on her own. She's scared of the dark, so she sleeps with a lamp on. She also has 5 stuffed animals and 5 books in bed with her. She has a little potty in her room. All of that stopped most of the stalling, but it didn't stop the fits.

Despite all of the amenities at her disposal, she whines and cries (loudly, so it's hard to just tune it out) for 1.5-2 hours before bed. Every single night. I'm hesitant to take things away if she's actually scared, plus taking things away just makes her cry more, and threatening to take things away does nothing. She has a mostly empty sticker chart for staying in bed quietly all night, so rewards don't seem to work, either. 

Wearing her out doesn't help - she spent all day on Sunday running around outside and playing in the pool, didn't take a nap, and still whined until almost 10:00. If we ask what's wrong, she comes up with any number of issues (she's scared, she needs another blanket, she just wants one of us in her room, she misses DS, etc), but if we resolve that issue, she just starts crying about another issue. If we completely ignore her, she cries the whole time. If we ask what we can do to help make going to bed easier before she actually goes to bed, she says she doesn't want to go to bed, so that's not helpful.

Tell me how to fix this, preferably not by keeping her in the living room with us until 10:00.

Here's a drink for listening to me whine. :drink: :beer: 

[Deleted]

DS is an epic bedtime staller, he's 3.5yo. I am a pushover, so it's a bad combination. We go through the same cycle over and over. He politely asks for one more thing (book, kiss, potty, water, etc). I say ok. Next night is 2 things plus whining, next night is all-out crying and 3 things, etc. Eventually we have to play hardball. We say "this is the LAST THING, then we are not coming back in." And we stick to it. We give the last thing and lock his bedroom door (we lock his door every night though). His room is babyproofed and we can see him on the monitor. He cries until he falls asleep. We'll sometimes tell him over the monitor that it's bedtime, but we don't go back in. A night or two of that and he stops the stalling. I think "he's doing better" and let down my guard, the cycle starts again

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Jul 27, 2015 21:46:43 GMT -5 @supergreen said:

DS is an epic bedtime staller, he's 3.5yo. I am a pushover, so it's a bad combination. We go through the same cycle over and over. He politely asks for one more thing (book, kiss, potty, water, etc). I say ok. Next night is 2 things plus whining, next night is all-out crying and 3 things, etc. Eventually we have to play hardball. We say "this is the LAST THING, then we are not coming back in." And we stick to it. We give the last thing and lock his bedroom door (we lock his door every night though). His room is babyproofed and we can see him on the monitor. He cries until he falls asleep. We'll sometimes tell him over the monitor that it's bedtime, but we don't go back in. A night or two of that and he stops the stalling. I think "he's doing better" and let down my guard, the cycle starts again

Yeah, I think I'm too much of a pushover, too. Maybe I need to go out for a few nights and let DH deal with it. Except he's a pushover, too, just less of a pushover than I am. He doesn't go in, but he does a lot of reassuring over the monitor. *sigh* We're pretty good about not being pushovers during the day, but at night we're out of patience and just want peace. Maybe we just need to suck it up and not engage at all.

[Deleted]

Yeah once we're finally consistent with the "you're not getting anything else" the stalling vastly improves in just a few nights. I just suck at nighttime consistency b/c he's adorable.

[Deleted]

I don't have any tips but I can sympathize. DD says she doesn't like to sleep alone, and wants me to lay with her until she falls asleep. God forbid I get up and leave before she's in a super deep sleep.

It's hard. I'm sorry you're dealing with it too.

[huskymom]

I have no advice but I'm right there with you. Most frustrating part of my day, especially dh is often not home. I can't lock her door or she freaks. She needs light, she wants to snuggle, she has to go potty, needs a drink, etc. If she played quietly in her bed I wouldn't even GAF, but it's constant calling for stuff. I've been ignoring it for the most part but sometimes she escalates and I'm afraid she'll wake DD2.

So, I'll just pass the wine.

[water*drop]

I'm sorry that bedtime is sucking for everybody else, too.

[kategm]

I agree with @this and was going to say something similar. My niece went through similar fears of the dark around the same age. They tried a few things and finally settled on one of those DreamLites pillow pet things. It apparently worked really well because she could control it. She could push the button when it timed out, the stars on the ceiling were relaxing and not too bright, etc. The only issue was apparently they were replacing the batteries all the time. Worth a shot?

[Deleted]

All these kids have a meeting or conference call, don't they? They discuss strategies? They are all doing the same things.
I am a little bit of a pushover but I try to be stronger without being mean. I usually tell her 'this is the last time I am coming' so she knows not to bother asking again. Then if she calls, I don't go up the stairs. Sometimes I just yell from downstairs 'I love you' but that's it.
If I cave and go to her room, I don't go in. I stand at the door and talk to her from there.
She will ask me to put her blanket on again, she drops toys on purpose, she asks for water, to go pee, for a hug, to tell me a secret. It goes on and on.
I try to spend a long time in her room before bed. Read lots of books etc.
It's a battle. Almost every night.

[water*drop]

@this and kategm - I agree that the light is probably keeping her awake longer, but we finally settled on the lamp because she had a billion night lights, a flashlight, and one of those twilight turtle things, and she was still flipping out about it being too dark. We had been sneaking into her room to turn off the lamp after she fell asleep, but she always turned it back on in the MOTN anyway. Maybe it's worth another try, though.

She has asked us to leave her door cracked a couple of times lately...we've said no because our house is small, and we think she'd hear the living room noise even over her white noise machine, but maybe we should try that anyway.

[anaps28]

I'm just coming in to say my kid has been stalling at bedtime since 3.5 ( now 4) but now the babies room is adjoining to his so he knows I am at his mercy trying to keep him quiet bc the baby goes to bed so much earlier than he does. (everyone has a sound machine but sound travels horribly in this house)

Some nights are fine and some nights are a major PITA.

I saw some commercial for these night light buddies that are an animal that glow. I have to search for it and see if I can find it.

[water*drop]

Jul 28, 2015 8:45:43 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

How long does the going-to-bed routine take? I honestly might try to make it shorter if possible to make going to bed less of a production. Just more matter of fact if that makes sense.

Also though, even with the bedtime routine and the stalling, she's still usually in bed by 815? If that's the case then I'm not sure you are being a "pushover" if you are sticking to your routine and putting her in bed. Talking to her on the monitor isnt the same as bringing her a glass of water every 5 minutes, you know?

IF she stays up until 10, does she go right to sleep? I know that sounds hellish but maybe she is just a night owl.

Finally - we put DS1 to bed around 7 or 730. I just leave him in bed. I don't go in there - he can play with his animals if he wants, or whatever (he's not allowed to get out of bed though) but I don't go back in usually. I figure he has to figure out how to calm himself down and fall asleep on his own. If you just left her in there, with no communication, from 815 on, I wonder if after a few nights she would just settle down earlier?

Not counting bath, the going-to-bed routine is about 30 minutes, counting the stories from each of us. We could probably cut that down a little.

She does go to sleep much faster if we keep her up until 9:30-10:00, so I do think she's a night owl, but ugh. We need the time to decompress. If we could just get her to play QUIETLY in her room, it'd be fine for her to stay up, but she just whines about wanting company. 

I think no communication is probably the best idea. Even talking to her on the monitor is giving her attention, which is what I think she really wants, and it's so annoying to have to stop what we're doing every 10 minutes to talk to her. Maybe we just need to suck it up for a week and see what happens. The only issue is that she says she has to poop approximately 45 times during the process (we put the potty in her room to at least stop her from using bathroom breaks as an excuse to come out of her room...she does go, too, so we can't ignore it), and she'll call us in to wipe her...there's no way we can trust her to wipe herself yet.

[drloretta]

I'm not sure the light thing is necessarily an issue. DD ended up with a fear of the dark and her room is like Vegas every night, LOL. She still sleeps a solid 10+ hours.

I'd cut down on the bedtime routine--10 minutes with each of you may open the door to more stalling. Maybe do stuff together (we've started doing that to avoid individual trips upstairs).

Also consider the extinction method, which is basically put her to bed, and if she throws a fit, go in without any speaking or eye contact, put her back in bed, rinse and repeat. "They" say that should work after a few days.

And I'll send booze