Sleep training?

[isabel]

DS is 17 weeks. Everything I've been reading says that he should start learning how to self-soothe and go to sleep in his crib, instead of me rocking him or whatever.

He does a great job with this in the middle of the night. I feed him, put him in the crib, and he rolls over and goes to sleep. Sometimes he fusses a bit, but it's usually not major and doesn't require intervention.

Getting him in bed for the night is really hard though. I've tried putting him down fully asleep, partially asleep, wide awake, whatever. He always wakes up and cries. It's to the point where I cycle through about 3 rounds of rocking, putting him in the crib, letting him cry for a bit, then starting over.

I don't want to sleep train him for real. I think it's still fine for him to eat in the MOTN and I'm not ready to wean him from that. My big question is, is it ok to let him CIO when putting him down at night? He's still so young, but I know he's capable of doing it during the night.

WWYD?

[ssmjlm]

I wouldn't. We didn't ST for falling asleep until 5.5m.

[namasteak]

I would wait to ST until 5 months.

[jeaniebueller]

keep doing what works. don't worry about drowsy but awake if he goes down just fine after a bottle/nursing, etc.

[noodleoo]

How long do you let him cry before going back in? I just got the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child and I was surprised to read that you can start teaching them to fall asleep on their own as early as 3 months. It has a few different strategies, including letting them cry it out. I haven't really tried it yet, but I might soon. It says the earlier you start, the better since you can teach them before they develop bad habits.

my sister recommended the book and she said she used its advice for her kids, who are good sleepers so I'm willing to try it. 

[felicity]

Our pedi said 4 months was okay for sleep training, but we waited until 5 months and only did it then because DS was waking like every 40 minutes all night long. ST worked, but it is not fun and I kept worrying I was breaking my baby I'd probably wait unless you really can't stand the bedtime routine.

[Deleted]

I would wait. Doing any sleep training during the 4MW just seems futile for everyone involved. Give it another month or so. If he's eventually going to sleep and sleeping well at night with only a couple easy wakeups, I think you've got it pretty good.

[whitemerlot]

My dd was awful at 4 months. She was waking up every 45 minutes, nursing and taking 45 minutes to get back to sleep. All night long.

We talked to the pedi and then got her when she cried, nursed her and made sure she had a fresh diaper and then put her down. We let her cry for up to 5 minutes. She really never cried longer than that. She usually stopped under 2 minutes.

I never sleep trained to the point of not responding to her at first, just that once she was all taken care of. She has never been a great sleeper and is 3 years old now. She was still nursing overnight until age 2 1/2 and would never co-sleep well, which worked for my ds.

[snshne322]

I agree with others that I would wait until 5 or 6 months.

Getting infants to sleep sucks. Before we sleep trained at 7 months, it would take him 1.5-2 hours of rocking to sleep, then having him wake up when we put him in his crib. Rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times. I nearly lost my mind.

[zarapipe]

I would wait till 5 or 6 months. I know it sucks and it is so hard. Babies suck.

[jewel]

I'd wait, at least another couple of weeks.

I had (have) a HORRIBLE sleeper. We did Ferber at 5.5 months, because at that point, he was waking every 45 minutes and I was one more sleepless night away from losing my damn mind. What helped me for the month or so leading up, was to have a sleep-training date set. I felt better if I could tell myself - I am only doing this for another 3 weeks (or whatever).

I also wanted to clarify that sleep training and night weaning are not necessarily one in the same. We have sleep trained (several times over) with no attempt to night wean. I mean, I'd love it if he'd sleep all night, but I'm not doing anything to eliminate reasonable feedings.

[thebreakfastclub]

What time are you starting bedtime?

[bdubs419]

Babies change so much between 4 and 6 months. I just had to crib train/unswaddle my 6.5 month old who was sleeping in a rock n play. We tried a few times without success earlier. It stressed me out thinking about it so much because of how poorly it went the first few times. Our doctor suggested waiting because after 6 months they can self soothe so much better. Anyways, on Monday I went to put him in his halo swaddle sack and it DIDN'T FIT. I thought "oh no.... I guess we are doing this tonight!". He went from being swaddled in the RNP to unswaddled (just a sleep sack) in the crib. The first night was a little rough to be honest, but after 3 nights I can see a lot of progress. I can tell that waiting made a BIG difference for us.

[isabel]

Truly, the bedtime routine doesn't bother me. I'm just afraid that I'm setting us up for serious pain down the road when he has to be rocked and shushed to get to sleep.

To answer questions:
I don't really let him cry when he wakes up. It's more that he'll start fussing and as soon as it's clear that he's ramping up, I go in and pick him up.

We start bedtime around 7pm. It generally takes an hour and a half of our "routine" to get him down for good. But we've had nights where we started the routine later and it didn't change anything, so I don't think it's an issue of when he's ready for bed.

[perkyderky]

I sleep trained my son around 4 months--he might have been 4.5 months. We did the checks at 3 minutes, 6 minutes and 9 minutes, and I think one night we did have to go up to 12 minutes. It did take us almost a week with this, but eventually it worked. We put him down around 6:45 and he did/does typically have one wake up (I will still nurse him) around 3:30 and he'll sleep most mornings until around 6am. So it's not perfect, but it is what has worked for us.

[isabel]

Aug 6, 2015 13:06:54 GMT -5 @supergreen said:

I would wait. Doing any sleep training during the 4MW just seems futile for everyone involved. Give it another month or so. If he's eventually going to sleep and sleeping well at night with only a couple easy wakeups, I think you've got it pretty good.

4MW is over I think. He was absolute fucking hell from 13-15 weeks and has been pretty darn good since then.

I really do think we're doing pretty well and I'm not complaining about it. It's more that I keep reading these things that tell you not to let your baby become reliant on certain things for sleep. I'm afraid I'm going to make things harder for us down the road. But, maybe it's neither here nor there. Sleep training is going to suck regardless of when we do it.

[jewel]

Honestly, if you're happy with the current arrangement, then I would just KOKO until it doesn't work. Don't borrow trouble

[bdubs419]

Aug 6, 2015 15:12:01 GMT -5 isabel said:

Aug 6, 2015 13:06:54 GMT -5 @supergreen said:

I would wait. Doing any sleep training during the 4MW just seems futile for everyone involved. Give it another month or so. If he's eventually going to sleep and sleeping well at night with only a couple easy wakeups, I think you've got it pretty good.

4MW is over I think. He was absolute fucking hell from 13-15 weeks and has been pretty darn good since then.

I really do think we're doing pretty well and I'm not complaining about it. It's more that I keep reading these things that tell you not to let your baby become reliant on certain things for sleep. I'm afraid I'm going to make things harder for us down the road. But, maybe it's neither here nor there. Sleep training is going to suck regardless of when we do it.

I wouldn't worry too much about this.  17 weeks is still very young and they can easily be retrained.  I learned that first hand with DS1 and DS2.  With both I attempted to sleep train too early, and failed miserably.  Tried again after 6 months and it worked MUCH better for both.

[thebreakfastclub]

At that age, my son's bedtime was more like 8:30. I think I'd start bedtime at 8pm and see if you can cut it to 30 minutes by holding on the 8:30 bedtime. DS almost always cried for less than 5 minutes before falling asleep and STTN.

I could not sustain a 90 minute bedtime routine personally, so I would experiment a bit.

[ringstrue]

Too young. Having said that I would try to see how you can put him down without waking. Sometimes I'm too fast to put DS down and he wakes right up, or I wait too long (I have fallen asleep in my chair) and its enough for a mini nap for him and he's up and ready to go.

Also even if you aren't swaddling, I had great success with wrapping a blanket around my babies so when I put them down they don't get a cold sensation from the air on their back/neck/face or the cool sheet. I do think the change in temp plays a role.

Also make sure there aren't other cues to wake him like keeping the light off, have white noise on while rocking, so that you aren't cluing him in that you are leaving by mistake.

[ringstrue]

Oh also, it might just be time to push back his bedtime a bit, or redo his routine. He also might need less naps now.

[isabel]

Aug 6, 2015 15:26:43 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

At that age, my son's bedtime was more like 8:30. I think I'd start bedtime at 8pm and see if you can cut it to 30 minutes by holding on the 8:30 bedtime. DS almost always cried for less than 5 minutes before falling asleep and STTN.

I could not sustain a 90 minute bedtime routine personally, so I would experiment a bit.

Was yours a good napper? My biggest hurdle with pushing his bedtime routine is that he is so, so tired at the end of the day. He usually has a good morning nap and then his afternoon naps are mediocre. I think he generally has a morning nap, mid-afternoon, and late afternoon. Maybe I need to have MIL mess with his naps and see if she can get him down to two good ones? This sleep thing is hard.

[thebreakfastclub]

Aug 6, 2015 15:59:41 GMT -5 isabel said:

Aug 6, 2015 15:26:43 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

At that age, my son's bedtime was more like 8:30. I think I'd start bedtime at 8pm and see if you can cut it to 30 minutes by holding on the 8:30 bedtime. DS almost always cried for less than 5 minutes before falling asleep and STTN.

I could not sustain a 90 minute bedtime routine personally, so I would experiment a bit.

Was yours a good napper? My biggest hurdle with pushing his bedtime routine is that he is so, so tired at the end of the day. He usually has a good morning nap and then his afternoon naps are mediocre. I think he generally has a morning nap, mid-afternoon, and late afternoon. Maybe I need to have MIL mess with his naps and see if she can get him down to two good ones? This sleep thing is hard.

He was a good napper on weekends at home. Many days at daycare he napped an hour or less total. He often fell asleep in the car at 5:30 pick up. I woke him at 6:30 those days. 

[luv2rn4fun]

Aug 6, 2015 12:42:55 GMT -5 felicity said:

Our pedi said 4 months was okay for sleep training, but we waited until 5 months and only did it then because DS was waking like every 40 minutes all night long. ST worked, but it is not fun and I kept worrying I was breaking my baby I'd probably wait unless you really can't stand the bedtime routine.

this was us except at 4 months. He also wouldn't nap and I was exhausted. In your shoes though I would probably KOKO until he's waking more frequently at night.

[perkyderky]

Aug 6, 2015 15:59:41 GMT -5 isabel said:

Aug 6, 2015 15:26:43 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

At that age, my son's bedtime was more like 8:30. I think I'd start bedtime at 8pm and see if you can cut it to 30 minutes by holding on the 8:30 bedtime. DS almost always cried for less than 5 minutes before falling asleep and STTN.

I could not sustain a 90 minute bedtime routine personally, so I would experiment a bit.

Was yours a good napper? My biggest hurdle with pushing his bedtime routine is that he is so, so tired at the end of the day. He usually has a good morning nap and then his afternoon naps are mediocre. I think he generally has a morning nap, mid-afternoon, and late afternoon. Maybe I need to have MIL mess with his naps and see if she can get him down to two good ones? This sleep thing is hard.

Some people are just sleepers.  Since his sleep training around 4.5 months, mine wakes around 6am, his first nap is usually around 7:30am and he'll sleep until around 9-9:30am.  Wakes up, then goes back down around 11:30-12.  Wakes typically 1:30ish.  Last nap used to be around 3:15 and it was a good day if he slept until 4.  If it's a bath night, we usually start the routine around 6:15 so he's going down to bed by 6:45, if it's not a bath night, we start around 6:30pm.  At this point, he's not really taking the last nap, so by the time 6:45 comes around my boy is TIRED. 

[gibbinator]

You should probably wait until he's a bit older to do CIO.

for a suggestion though, my ds1 was similar in that he always woke right up crying after nursing or rocking to sleep. One thing I learned would help is if when I layed him in the crib I left you hand on his chest for 10mins. He'd always startle right around the 10 mins mark but if the weight of my hand was still on his chest he would quickly settle and sleep for a few hours.

[Deleted]

Aug 6, 2015 15:12:01 GMT -5 isabel said:

Aug 6, 2015 13:06:54 GMT -5 @supergreen said:

I would wait. Doing any sleep training during the 4MW just seems futile for everyone involved. Give it another month or so. If he's eventually going to sleep and sleeping well at night with only a couple easy wakeups, I think you've got it pretty good.

4MW is over I think. He was absolute fucking hell from 13-15 weeks and has been pretty darn good since then.

I really do think we're doing pretty well and I'm not complaining about it. It's more that I keep reading these things that tell you not to let your baby become reliant on certain things for sleep. I'm afraid I'm going to make things harder for us down the road. But, maybe it's neither here nor there. Sleep training is going to suck regardless of when we do it.

I spent SO MUCH time and energy with my first child trying to do what "they say" I should do. All the "things I kept reading." I made babyhood so much harder on DS and myself. With my second kid I made the conscious decision to do what WORKS, rather than what "they say" I should be doing. If rocking works, if shushing works, and he's doing "pretty darn good" then I wouldn't change anything. My motto with my second kid is firmly "if it ain't broke, DON'T fix it."

[pinotgrig]

Aug 6, 2015 15:05:52 GMT -5 isabel said:

Truly, the bedtime routine doesn't bother me. I'm just afraid that I'm setting us up for serious pain down the road when he has to be rocked and shushed to get to sleep.

To answer questions:
I don't really let him cry when he wakes up. It's more that he'll start fussing and as soon as it's clear that he's ramping up, I go in and pick him up.

We start bedtime around 7pm. It generally takes an hour and a half of our "routine" to get him down for good. But we've had nights where we started the routine later and it didn't change anything, so I don't think it's an issue of when he's ready for bed.

Don't worry about bad habits. I was exactly the same way as you are, so easier said than done I know.

Do what works for you. Are you ok with his sleep right now? If so, then koko. For me, I nursed and rocked G back to sleep until around 8 months (9 months? Winter of 2104/2015 is a very fuzzy time for me, lol). Then I really started having trouble functioning on so little sleep and we changed it up. H started doing more wakeups if G had eaten recently. We ultimately sleep trained around 10 (?) months and it wasn't nearly as big an event as I had built it up to be.

If you're ok with what's going on right now, no need to change.

ETA 1 - to answer your actual question, I personally did not want to st at that age. I think 6 months is the more standard time to start, but others have certainly done so earlier and it was fine.