The Republican Party doesn’t want to believe its voters agree with Trump. But they do.
Does Donald Trump's appeal have anything to do with his policy positions? Republican political consultant Matthew Dowd says it doesn't — Trump's rise, he argues, is all personality, no policy:
This is, for Republicans, the more comforting interpretation of Trump's emergence — he's a candidate powered by a potent mix of celebrity, outrage, and chutzpah, but he's not really a Republican, and as the primary grinds on, Republican voters will figure that out.
But there's another possible interpretation — this one more worrying for Republicans. In this interpretation, part of what makes Trump dangerous is that he's willing to cater to the opinions of the Republican base in ways that the Republican establishment wouldn't dare. And in doing so, he can exploit longstanding cleavages between the Republican Party and the voters it represents.
Republicans agree with Trump on immigration
So far, Trump is known for one policy position: He will deport unauthorized immigrants. And, more broadly than that, he's known for one policy idea: that immigration, and particularly illegal immigration, is hurting American workers.
And sure enough, a recent CBS News poll found that Trump leads the field when you ask Republican voters whom they trust most on immigration. That's not true on all policy issues, by the way — Trump badly lags Jeb Bush when you ask about dealing with America's foreign adversaries.
But when it comes to immigration — the one policy question on which everyone knows Trump's stance — Republican voters prefer him to the other candidates.
And it goes beyond just immigration. The first Republican debate was designed to show Republicans that they disagreed with Trump on all sorts of issues — he was called out on his disloyalty to the Republican Party, on his past support for single-payer, his treatment of women, his donations to Democratic candidates, and his past support for abortion. And at one point in the debate Trump, without being asked, volunteered that he believed the Iraq War was a mistake. The result?
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As Greg Sargent wrote, "The possibility that plenty of Republicans simply agree with [Trump's] specific pronouncements and positions, such as they are, should at least be entertained."
The broader issue here is that both parties are, at best, imperfect reflections of their bases. There are, for instance, pro-life Democratic voters — but you wouldn't know it watching congressional Democrats legislate. Similarly, there are Republicans who believe in taxing the rich and spending much more on programs for the poor, but those beliefs aren't reflected by the day-to-day actions of their elected representatives.
The gap between the rigid agendas followed by the party establishments and the more diverse opinions of loyal partisans leaves both parties vulnerable to a candidate like Trump who has the money, and the star power, to campaign on a platform that party elites would normally suppress.
Take spending cuts. It's table stakes in a Republican primary to talk about how you'll cut spending on Social Security and Medicare. The GOP's policy apparatus loathes both programs and considers their long-term cost to be among the most pressing economic threats facing the nation. Any Republican candidate who wants to be taken seriously by Republican Party elites needs to show they understand the urgency of cutting Social Security and Medicare spending.
One problem? Republican voters don't understand the urgency of cutting entitlement spending. In fact, they oppose cutting entitlement spending. More Republicans want to increase spending on Social Security and Medicare than decrease it. They think keeping entitlement benefits at current levels is more important than reducing the deficit.
This puts Republican voters at odds with the Republican establishment and conservative interest groups. But since Republican candidates can't get very far without some level of support from the GOP establishment, conservative interest groups, or both, the Republican Party's elected officials are basically united on cutting Social Security and Medicare, even though Republican voters hold the opposite view.
Trump is the only Republican running who actually agrees with the GOP base on this one. "They're gonna cut Social Security. They're gonna cut Medicare. They're gonna cut Medicaid," he said on Fox & Friends. "I'm the one saying that's saying I'm not gonna do that!"
And that's what makes a candidate like Trump potentially dangerous. On immigration, Trump holds a hard-line position that the Republican Party establishment has tried to mute, and so far Republican voters are loving it. On Social Security and Medicare, Trump — who opposes cuts — is closer to Republican voters than the party establishment is. On free trade deals, Trump shares a skepticism held by about half of Republican voters, but that's usually suppressed by the party's powerful business wing.
Most candidates who tried to stack this many heterodoxies would be quickly squelched by the party establishment. But Trump isn't beholden to the GOP for money, staff, power, or press attention. That frees him to take positions that Republican voters like but Republican Party elites loathe.
It may be true that support for Trump, so far, is about personality rather than policy. But as the primary wears on, Republican voters might find that they actually agree with him. And that's going to put the rest of the Republican field — all those candidates who were playing by the establishment's rules — in a very tough position.
I saw him on Meet the Press yesterday. I'll be honest, he actually came across like he was really trying to take the race seriously. He's still Donald Trump, so it wasn't like watching Chuck Todd interview a sane person or anything. But there was a seriousness there that I had not previously seen before.
I saw him on Meet the Press yesterday. I'll be honest, he actually came across like he was really trying to take the race seriously. He's still Donald Trump, so it wasn't like watching Chuck Todd interview a sane person or anything. But there was a seriousness there that I had not previously seen before.
Yeah, I'm not sure if I expected him to be absolutely effing ridiculous on MTP, but he came across as... reasonable. Don't get me wrong, he's not someone I would ever vote for regardless, but I could TOTALLY see a large percentage of voters watching that interview and thinking he had good points. Trump's not a stupid man.
I am sure there are plenty of people who agree with the offensive and horrible things he says, but a lot of support I've seen for him personally (like in memes and stuff) is because he is saying whatever he wants and not backing down. I've also noticed he is kind of popular with people I know who usually don't seem too politically aware.
It's probably a combination of things - those who genuinely agree with him (gag), those who lean conservative/R and like his personality and outsider status (I also think this is something that is a more common sentiment among Rs vs. Ds - wanting loud outsiders - maybe its part of the reason why Tea Party types have been successful), and those who find the whole thing entertaining.
Post by 2curlydogs on Aug 17, 2015 11:23:56 GMT -5
How is anyone shocked by this? The R's have been banking on personality over policy for decades. So OF COURSE the most outlandish personality on stage is gaining the most support.
I saw him on Meet the Press yesterday. I'll be honest, he actually came across like he was really trying to take the race seriously. He's still Donald Trump, so it wasn't like watching Chuck Todd interview a sane person or anything. But there was a seriousness there that I had not previously seen before.
Yeah, I'm not sure if I expected him to be absolutely effing ridiculous on MTP, but he came across as... reasonable. Don't get me wrong, he's not someone I would ever vote for regardless, but I could TOTALLY see a large percentage of voters watching that interview and thinking he had good points. Trump's not a stupid man.
Yes and no. I would say that he's savvy, but not intellectual.
What I find fascinating is how he is just completely untethered from both reality and big monied interests. So with his Iran answer, he said he knows contracts and you can always find a loophole and he's going to enforce the shit out of it in a way that is stronger than the public thinks it is. It sounds simple and brilliant. None of the other candidates are going to say that. They are going to have convoluted, wonky positions that people fall asleep to. The reason they have their answers though is because they are at least in part constricted by reality, and they know that, as the panel pointed out, the president doesn't have the power to enforce the agreement, the nuclear weapons inspectors do.
For everything he proposes, it's the same. He doesn't give two shits about reality. It's all, "build a wall, bill Mexico." Nobody else proposes that because they know that it just doesn't work like that. So he's refreshing and brilliant to people whose political philosophy can be summed up as, "America, fuck yeah." Nobody else can do what he's doing.
Yeah, I'm not sure if I expected him to be absolutely effing ridiculous on MTP, but he came across as... reasonable. Don't get me wrong, he's not someone I would ever vote for regardless, but I could TOTALLY see a large percentage of voters watching that interview and thinking he had good points. Trump's not a stupid man.
Yes and no. I would say that he's savvy, but not intellectual.
What I find fascinating is how he is just completely untethered from both reality and big monied interests. So with his Iran answer, he said he knows contracts and you can always find a loophole and he's going to enforce the shit out of it in a way that is stronger than the public thinks it is. It sounds simple and brilliant. None of the other candidates are going to say that. They are going to have convoluted, wonky positions that people fall asleep to. The reason they have their answers though is because they are at least in part constricted by reality, and they know that, as the panel pointed out, the president doesn't have the power to enforce the agreement, the nuclear weapons inspectors do.
For everything he proposes, it's the same. He doesn't give two shits about reality. It's all, "build a wall, bill Mexico." Nobody else proposes that because they know that it just doesn't work like that. So he's refreshing and brilliant to people whose political philosophy can be summed up as, "America, fuck yeah." Nobody else can do what he's doing.
The bolded is what I find most offensive of Trump's stand on anything. He thinks he is the first person to ever think up something so obvious that it should be policy... um NOPE!!! I think it's naïve of anyone who follows him to think he has something novel to offer, it's really his own inexperience and lack of ability to try to understand complex political situations that is allowing him to succeed right now. That doesn't fly in the real world, only in hyperbole TV-land.
I don't think anyone wants to admit it, because at this point, even though I'm not a Republican, I find it embarrassing as an American, but hey, it is what it is. Poor Jeb!. Bob Woodward was flustered and annoyed with the Morning Joe panel earlier because they spent almost two hours talking about Trump and his runaway poll numbers. Someone said that it's the disregard for his overwhelming lead that are making the people who plan to vote for him frustrated and at this point, we can't continue to act like he's not a serious candidate, because people are taking him seriously. Unfortunately, I have to agree. What would be almost hilarious is if the race ends up being Sanders v. Trump, only not hilarious at all, because Trump would probably win.
I don't think anyone wants to admit it, because at this point, even though I'm not a Republican, I find it embarrassing as an American, but hey, it is what it is. Poor Jeb!. Bob Woodward was flustered and annoyed with the Morning Joe panel earlier because they spent almost two hours talking about Trump and his runaway poll numbers. Someone said that it's the disregard for his overwhelming lead that are making the people who plan to vote for him frustrated and at this point, we can't continue to act like he's not a serious candidate, because people are taking him seriously. Unfortunately, I have to agree. What would be almost hilarious is if the race ends up being Sanders v. Trump, only not hilarious at all, because Trump would probably win.
I do think that part of what I find so bad about all this is that it's just proving how dumb some people are. I think Trump is not only reaching a portion of the base, but also people who maybe don't even regularly vote or pay attention to politics. That may not be reflected in his poll numbers, but I feel like this is the result of 20 years of reality TV and the cult of celebrity and basically...just idiots. He says all these bananas, yet simplistic things and people are like, YEAH FUCK YEAH THIS IS WHAT I WANT. And it's like, it doesn't work that way...but you can't tell anyone that, because they don't give a shit.
I think some people identify with him in that respect, because a lot of times, the solutions are complicated - and complicated to get everyone to agree to, but the average person is like - why isn't this simple? DO THIS. There's a general distaste for politics and politicians and how things are done.
I don't think anyone wants to admit it, because at this point, even though I'm not a Republican, I find it embarrassing as an American, but hey, it is what it is. Poor Jeb!. Bob Woodward was flustered and annoyed with the Morning Joe panel earlier because they spent almost two hours talking about Trump and his runaway poll numbers. Someone said that it's the disregard for his overwhelming lead that are making the people who plan to vote for him frustrated and at this point, we can't continue to act like he's not a serious candidate, because people are taking him seriously. Unfortunately, I have to agree. What would be almost hilarious is if the race ends up being Sanders v. Trump, only not hilarious at all, because Trump would probably win.
I do think that part of what I find so bad about all this is that it's just proving how dumb some people are. I think Trump is not only reaching a portion of the base, but also people who maybe don't even regularly vote or pay attention to politics. That may not be reflected in his poll numbers, but I feel like this is the result of 20 years of reality TV and the cult of celebrity and basically...just idiots. He says all these bananas, yet simplistic things and people are like, YEAH FUCK YEAH THIS IS WHAT I WANT. And it's like, it doesn't work that way...but you can't tell anyone that, because they don't give a shit.
I think some people identify with him in that respect, because a lot of times, the solutions are complicated - and complicated to get everyone to agree to, but the average person is like - why isn't this simple? DO THIS. There's a general distaste for politics and politicians and how things are done.
Oh, this is totally what's happening. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two Republicans in the lead right now are not politicians.
Another point I heard that I agree with is that the "Fuck yeah, America!" gang are all in their feelings about Obama trying to usher in an era of a gentler, humbler America, so they are excited about the guy who is basically talking shit about every other country and a throwback to the George Bush guns blazin days.
I do think that part of what I find so bad about all this is that it's just proving how dumb some people are. I think Trump is not only reaching a portion of the base, but also people who maybe don't even regularly vote or pay attention to politics. That may not be reflected in his poll numbers, but I feel like this is the result of 20 years of reality TV and the cult of celebrity and basically...just idiots. He says all these bananas, yet simplistic things and people are like, YEAH FUCK YEAH THIS IS WHAT I WANT. And it's like, it doesn't work that way...but you can't tell anyone that, because they don't give a shit.
I think some people identify with him in that respect, because a lot of times, the solutions are complicated - and complicated to get everyone to agree to, but the average person is like - why isn't this simple? DO THIS. There's a general distaste for politics and politicians and how things are done.
And also the rise of anti-intellectualism, a de-emphasis on teaching critical thinking skills in school, and the end of a free and independent press.
Churning out generations of barely-functional idiots is a feature, not a bug.
I do think that part of what I find so bad about all this is that it's just proving how dumb some people are. I think Trump is not only reaching a portion of the base, but also people who maybe don't even regularly vote or pay attention to politics. That may not be reflected in his poll numbers, but I feel like this is the result of 20 years of reality TV and the cult of celebrity and basically...just idiots. He says all these bananas, yet simplistic things and people are like, YEAH FUCK YEAH THIS IS WHAT I WANT. And it's like, it doesn't work that way...but you can't tell anyone that, because they don't give a shit.
I think some people identify with him in that respect, because a lot of times, the solutions are complicated - and complicated to get everyone to agree to, but the average person is like - why isn't this simple? DO THIS. There's a general distaste for politics and politicians and how things are done.
Oh, this is totally what's happening. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two Republicans in the lead right now are not politicians.
Another point I heard that I agree with is that the "Fuck yeah, America!" gang are all in their feelings about Obama trying to usher in an era of a gentler, humbler America, so they are excited about the guy who is basically talking shit about every other country and a throwback to the George Bush guns blazin days.
I mentioned this elsewhere on this board, but between Trump, Carson, and Fiorina, 40% are behind non-politicians. Throw in Cruz, who is the most anti-establishment politician ever, and it's more than 50% going for non-traditional candidates.
Even if you take out the people who would rather watch Duck Dynasty than go to the polls, you are still looking at a very large swatch of people that want to overthrow the establishment.
I do think that part of what I find so bad about all this is that it's just proving how dumb some people are. I think Trump is not only reaching a portion of the base, but also people who maybe don't even regularly vote or pay attention to politics. That may not be reflected in his poll numbers, but I feel like this is the result of 20 years of reality TV and the cult of celebrity and basically...just idiots. He says all these bananas, yet simplistic things and people are like, YEAH FUCK YEAH THIS IS WHAT I WANT. And it's like, it doesn't work that way...but you can't tell anyone that, because they don't give a shit.
I think some people identify with him in that respect, because a lot of times, the solutions are complicated - and complicated to get everyone to agree to, but the average person is like - why isn't this simple? DO THIS. There's a general distaste for politics and politicians and how things are done.
And also the rise of anti-intellectualism, a de-emphasis on teaching critical thinking skills in school, and the end of a free and independent press.
Churning out generations of barely-functional idiots is a feature, not a bug.
I think it would be interesting to discuss this. Wasn't it 1964 when anti-intellectualism was first identified in a scholarly book as an American trait in both cultural and political arenas. Has it increased even more, is it more acceptable to be "anti-intellectual"? I really don't know the answers to this.
I keep thinking about what First Lady Melania Trump would be like.
I wonder how gaudy the Presidential china would be, too.
Seriously though, it's crazy how many people are behind Trump. I've heard a lot of "Well, he knows how to make businesses make money, so maybe he'd reduce the deficit!" which is just horrible logic.
...So he's refreshing and brilliant to people whose political philosophy can be summed up as, "America, fuck yeah." Nobody else can do what he's doing.
I think this is a big part of it, and that scares me. Trump could* do massive damage to us in foreign policy.
*maybe he already is, but it would be worse if he were president
Yeah, I'm not sure if I expected him to be absolutely effing ridiculous on MTP, but he came across as... reasonable. Don't get me wrong, he's not someone I would ever vote for regardless, but I could TOTALLY see a large percentage of voters watching that interview and thinking he had good points. Trump's not a stupid man.
Yes and no. I would say that he's savvy, but not intellectual.
What I find fascinating is how he is just completely untethered from both reality and big monied interests. So with his Iran answer, he said he knows contracts and you can always find a loophole and he's going to enforce the shit out of it in a way that is stronger than the public thinks it is. It sounds simple and brilliant. None of the other candidates are going to say that. They are going to have convoluted, wonky positions that people fall asleep to. The reason they have their answers though is because they are at least in part constricted by reality, and they know that, as the panel pointed out, the president doesn't have the power to enforce the agreement, the nuclear weapons inspectors do.
For everything he proposes, it's the same. He doesn't give two shits about reality. It's all, "build a wall, bill Mexico." Nobody else proposes that because they know that it just doesn't work like that. So he's refreshing and brilliant to people whose political philosophy can be summed up as, "America, fuck yeah." Nobody else can do what he's doing.
There was an intriguing and incredibly depressing article about Trump supporters in the Midwest in the WaPo this weekend that I think shed a lot of light into why he is being taken seriously by voters. I really think it's dangerous for people on both sides, Democrat or establishment Republican alike, to underestimate him and his ability to sell himself (whether or not it has any basis in reality whatsoever).
A lot of it comes down to sheer desperation, I think, in a way that can be hard to fathom if you're not in the middle of it. Good manufacturing jobs are mostly gone there, and those communities and individuals are completely devastated with no real alternative or way to recover -- a fast-food or Wal-mart job will never be the equivalent in terms of security or satisfaction. So when someone comes in and says, "I can bring it all back!", they don't care HOW, they just want to believe it can happen. When Trump says to people in Flint, "I'm not going to approve a deal between Ford and Mexico for a new plant, I won't let it go through, they'll have to bring it here!", they think this can somehow magically be done by the right person who accepts no BS. There's zero recognition that Ford and Mexico don't need approval from anyone, much less the POTUS, to do whatever the hell business deals they want.
And there are utterly insane disconnects. Someone in the story talks about how we shouldn't take goods from countries with uneven trade -- if a country exports more to us than they buy from us, we just ought to refuse to take the stuff. Can you imagine the pure chaos that would cause if it actually became a reality, how many businesses would go under if they couldn't import, how people would scream (probably some of those same people) if they couldn't get an item they wanted because it came from China or Vietnam or Thailand? Or the woman in the story who says she doesn't think Trump would go to Congress to get things done, he'd just do it. I mean, there's zero understanding there of how our government works (or is supposed to).
Whether because of a lack of education and/or critical thinking, or the strength of the emotional appeal and seemingly simple, fast solutions when you've seen your once-thriving community crumble in a few short decades and just want SOMEONE to fix it instead of facing the long, slow, painful process of transitioning a local and state economy, of accepting that things will never be the way they were ... I dunno. It's easy for me to say, "this guy is a snake oil salesman" because I'm not the one who's desperate and trying to navigate the damage of free trade agreements, a global economy, etc. and figure out a path forward for my family or a community. Add people's tendencies to blame everyone else for troubles (big politicians, Ford lobbyists; it's the illegals, deport them all) and that plain-talk-I'm-not-an-intellectual-or-an-elitist-policy-wonk for people who probably spend a lot of time being told that if only they had a college degree they might be able to get a job, or that they need to be "re-trained", or need better "soft skills" (like communicating professionally and keeping sexist or racist comments to themselves) -- well, hell yes there's plenty for Trump to tap into. And he's doing it. And it's scary how well he's doing. I want to think that he's a flash in the pan, that he couldn't possibly win the primary or the presidency ... but things are such a shit-show for so many people in this country that I can't be sure.
In other words, I found this article depressing on SO many levels.
FLINT, Mich. — A few hours before Donald Trump’s plane landed, 20 minutes south of where he would speak, people gathered outside the Flint Assembly Plant to take a peek into the past. Some of them were retired, reuniting with friends. All of them remembered how there used to be more to the place.
“I worked at Plant 36,” said Jerry Hubbard, who retired in 2001, after outlasting his part of the vast “Buick City” complex that was dismantled as the auto jobs left. “It’s all gone. It’s all limestone. You can’t rape a place like that. General Motors jobs made this place.”
Only one presidential candidate seemed to care: Donald Trump. “A lot of what he says hits a chord with me,” said Hubbard. “Immigration and jobs going to China — this area’s really suffered from that. I just like somebody that stands up for what he speaks about.”
Trump’s rise and persistence as a presidential candidate has been credited to name recognition, to voter anger and to a specific contempt for the Republican Party establishment. But he is also the candidate talking most directly about the loss of manufacturing jobs to foreign countries.
In the Democratic race, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has adopted a similar theme, but Trump’s appeal here captured something that went beyond policy: a brew of impossible nostalgia coupled with a pledge to destroy other countries, most notably China, in negotiations. On Twitter, “Make America Great Again” is a goofy, meme-ready slogan, best displayed on ironic hats. There are places, such as Michigan, where it makes real sense.
That was on full display at a rollicking news conference and campaign rally where Trump again and again attacked “stupid” American leaders who were buffaloed by “cunning” Mexican and Chinese politicians.
Flint and Saginaw, the cities south and north of Trump’s speech on Tuesday, had voted for Democrats — Democrats who were trying to bring new businesses and infrastructure on the brownfields abandoned by big employers. And then came Trump, promising the moon and stars.
“Obviously, he’s saying things that are popular,” said Rep. Dan Kildee, the Democrat who represents Flint and a swath of cities and small towns north around Lake Huron. “We need to be able to fight against currency manipulation with all the tools against us.”
Gerald Woodruff, 65, had come to the open house with two missions. One: To see how the factory that had made vans and sedans had been downsized and repurposed to build trucks. Two: To see the Walter P. Reuther award, named for the iconic president of the United Auto Workers, that had been installed in honor of Woodruff’s father. He walked up to the UAW Local 598 office, which was closed for the celebration, although a sign was planted outside:
Foreign made automobiles
Are not welcome here
And may be towed away
At the owners expense
Buy Union Buy American
Woodruff, a sometimes Republican, was impressed by Trump. “I watched the debate,” he said. “Fox singled him out in that opening question. They said they asked hard questions of all the candidates, but they went after him because he’s touching a nerve. If Republicans can capitalize on that, they’ll do pretty good.”
What nerve was he touching, exactly?
“I think it’s wrong for an American business to move their business out of the United States to keep from paying taxes, but keep us as a marketplace,” Woodruff answered.
* * *
Nearly 3,000 people came to see Trump in Birch Run. Some of them had been there for the worst times. “I remember my dad in the late 1970s,” said Holly Gaul, 58. “He was a journeyman electrician. With the things at the time that were going on with GM, he knew his profession was going to be gone. And it was.”
There were jobs, sure, but not the kind people could live on. “Women my age are taking the McDonald’s jobs that the high school kids used to get,” Gaul said. “I’ve been waiting for a stronger president, somebody that I could look up to and respect again. He could stand up to those other countries. It’s wrong when they can build furniture in China and ship it here cheaper than it costs us to build it here.”
“Back when our economy took a dump, I had to go to Afghanistan,” said Bob Parsons, 51. “I had to work there as a product relations manager, just to build our retirement back up. There were no jobs in Michigan to be had. They’re not fair to what’s coming over, as far as the trade goes. For example, 100,000 cars come over here; 5,000 go over there. I like what he says: If they don’t let us send them there, we don’t take their stuff.”
Parsons’s wife, Brenda, who’d been nodding her head, interjected to explain why she trusted Trump.
“He’s a businessman,” she said. “Being a businessman, he knows the ways around. I don’t think he’d go to Congress and ask. I think he’d just do it.”
Bob Parsons explained that Trump could ignore lobbyists. It was lobbyists, hungry to sell out America for a buck, who weakened the trade deals, he said.
“You wouldn’t believe how many young kids I met in Afghanistan who have their degrees but can’t find jobs at home,” he said. “I compare Donald Trump to Ronald Reagan. He lets people know what he’s going to do, not what to ask for.”
When he hit the stage, Trump delivered. He went after China. He played out one of his favorite scenarios, in which he works the Oval Office phones, ignoring the president of Ford — and his lobbyists — and wages tax war on his company for shipping jobs to Mexico.
“Ford is building a $2.5 billion plant in Mexico,” he said.
Booooo!
“I’ll actually give them a good idea. Why don’t we just let the illegals drive the cars and trucks right into our country?”
Yaaaaaay!
“I would say, the deal is not going to be approved, I won’t allow it. I want that plant in the United States, preferably here. So then I only have one question: Do they move the plant to the United States the same day or a day later?”
The crowd burst into fresh applause.
One woman could be heard shouting: “Detroit!”
* * *
The next morning, like most every morning, students and job seekers filled the parking lot shared by Mott Community College and the Michigan Works job service center. A group of GED students stood near a gazebo, killing time. Calvin Munerlyn, 39, laid out his résumé.
“Four-time father,” he said. “School by day, bouncer at night. Kick ass and get paid for it. Can’t ask for more.”
DeAndre Cummings, 28, described how he had set up a job at Head Start and evaded “one of the fast-food jobs” that were too easy to settle for. Lisa Hammel, a 34-year-old who was trying to become a nurse after escaping an obsessive husband, explained matter-of-factly that China’s unfair practices had shifted away good jobs.
“They’ve got lower safety standards,” she said. “You know, the toys with lead paint.”
Hammel was the trio’s lone Trump enthusiast. The mention of the Republican’s name caused howls and heckles even from people standing nearby who were pretending not to listen. “He’s got good business skills,” she said. “I think he can fix the economy.”
“He’s a Republican!” laughed Cummings.
Republicans seemed to run everything outside of Flint. They were the handy reason why President Obama had disappointed people; they were the people elected in 2010 to restructure Michigan’s economy. Gov. Rick Snyder, who became wealthy as a computer company executive, had never sought office before that year. In an interview, he tried to be polite about Trump.
“We have a broken political culture,” he said. “I’m upfront about that.” And despite it, Michigan was marching out of the recession with new manufacturing jobs. The one-industry towns like Flint were diversifying. People understood that they could no longer walk out of high school and start a career, so they were getting trained, he said.
“That could happen in high school, through career training,” Snyder said. “We need to redefine skilled trades as being much broader than what they’ve been. If you’re a welder, you can get a job in any corner of this state.”
Snyder’s calm, optimistic theory of the case is shared by some of the GOP presidential candidates. Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, like Snyder, signed a right-to-work bill, which was, among other things, a declaration that organized labor would not build the new economy. Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) has framed the election as a lunge toward the future, away from longing for jobs that no longer make sense. Former Florida governor Jeb Bush’s “right to rise” concept assumes more legal immigrants sharing a country with native-born Americans, as does Snyder.
“On average,” Snyder said of immigrants, “they create 2 1/2 jobs for every position they hold.”
That’s what people say. At lunchtime on Wednesday, there was only a small crowd at the Wooden Kettle, a bar and restaurant near Flint Assembly. It was dollar beer day — domestics only — and the clientele was divided between people getting a burger in before the next shift and the people who started coming when the bar opened 47 years back. The TVs were tuned to a Detroit Tigers game and a Ronda Rousey UFC match that some of the retirees critiqued in great detail.
Jim Coffman, 65, sipped a beer and said that Trump had “jumped off the deep end on a lot of things.”
Still, he was curious. There were things Trump said that made sense.
“I do like the idea of not worrying about being politically correct,” Coffman said. “We need to tariff the people that import and take advantage of us. We need to say so.”
* * *
“When are you gonna get rid of the bricks?” someone asked the mayor.
Dayne Walling, 41, laughed. No one was going to get rid of the bricks that make up the downtown stretch of Flint’s Saginaw Street. By Wednesday afternoon, the town was rerouting traffic for the friendly annual “Back to the Bricks” celebration. Vintage cars are invited to cruise downtown (before the 10 p.m. curfew) and to park where people could see them.
Walling cut the ribbon for the party and then walked downtown. He had grown up in Flint, moved back in 2006 with an armful of degrees, lost a race for mayor in 2007, ran again and won the nonpartisan office in 2009.
“When I was a kid, Flint was already in crisis with the closure of General Motors,” he said over coffee. “My early memories of the community are of one struggling to revive and define itself. Those were the years that really shaped me.”
Chryslers and Pontiacs and T-Birds rolled by as Walling, a Democrat, described how fallacious Trump’s pitch was. Emotional, sure — but pointless.
“There’s a very strong ‘Made in the USA’ movement still in this area,” he said. “You’ll see bumper stickers that say: ‘Want to lose your job? Keep buying foreign.’ People understand that if there aren’t middle-class manufacturing jobs from American manufacturing companies, you end up with cheap foreign imports and low-paying service jobs.”
When his cup was empty, Walling got into his 2006 Chevy Impala, with 145,242 miles on the odometer and a Hillary Clinton sticker on the bumper. He navigated around the nostalgia party, past one old factory site that had been turned into townhouses, and into Buick City. The concrete stretched into the deep horizon, broken up by trees struggling through the cracks. Every once in a while, a small factory with a few hundred, or few dozen, employees jutted out.
“Flint’s plan is to add smaller companies that can take care of our workforce,” Walling said.
Trump’s pitch — the super-president personally yanking jobs back into the United States, into Michigan — is more romantic than any of this. And it’s not completely wrong. Walling’s been waiting for the federal government to create some version of “enterprise zones,” the tax-free areas meant to stimulate business in blighted cities. But nobody’s been saying it. There’s a gap in the politics as people understand them.
In the summer of 2015, it was being filled by Donald Trump.
It just kills me that these people love Trump because he's a "businessman" when it was "businessmen" who shut down their plants and sent their jobs to other countries in the first place.
I am sure there are plenty of people who agree with the offensive and horrible things he says, but a lot of support I've seen for him personally (like in memes and stuff) is because he is saying whatever he wants and not backing down. I've also noticed he is kind of popular with people I know who usually don't seem too politically aware.
It's probably a combination of things - those who genuinely agree with him (gag), those who lean conservative/R and like his personality and outsider status (I also think this is something that is a more common sentiment among Rs vs. Ds - wanting loud outsiders - maybe its part of the reason why Tea Party types have been successful), and those who find the whole thing entertaining.
I think you nailed it with this, especially with the bolded. I know a lot of Trump supporters who otherwise hate politics, i.e. "He's so refreshing, none of these other politicians are this honest!!!"
Post by mrsukyankee on Aug 17, 2015 13:24:56 GMT -5
If he wins and actually becomes president, I will be intrigued to see how the rest of the world reacts. Intrigued. I'm wondering if that would seriously shut the US off from the world in a lot of ways (which may be what many people would want)?
His appeal is because he's not a politician. I think the greater majority of republican America is just plain over "washington insiders". I blame his popularity on Congress. I think everyone is fed the fuck up with all the career politicians and he is a “business man” so he is representative of what people believe is the antithesis of that.
His appeal is because he's not a politician. I think the greater majority of republican America is just plain over "washington insiders". I blame his popularity on Congress. I think everyone is fed the fuck up with all the career politicians and he is a “business man” so he is representative of what people believe is the antithesis of that.
This is what I was thinking, too. I'm taking this from a small sampling, but this is what I have been hearing from supporters. My dad also likes him because "he is getting people talking about the real issues".
He also has the luxury of not really claiming the R party and their record since he's not a politician. I mean he's running for the R nomination but the R brand is pretty unlikeable across a broad spectrum. Not just with moderates or liberals - the most conservative faction has obviously been dissatisfied for awhile (see the success of the Tea Party).
He can be all "I wouldn't do it that way!" And there's nothing to throw back at him because he truly has no record really. He can criticize all of the R candidates about everything because he has no ownership of what Congress or the party has done.
I like how the article discussed how there is such a disconnect between what the party wants and what the people want. For years the party has basically said, "Suck it up, what are you gonna do, vote Democratic?" And now there seems like there might be a choice. Suddenly, they can have their candidate and not the heir apparent that Washington has foisted upon them. I get the appeal of that.
ETA: Just as a vote for Jeb! (or whoever) is seen as a message that the voters want a moderate on the issues, I think quite a few Trump supporters see their vote as a message to the party leaders that they don't have as much control as they think they do.
I do think that part of what I find so bad about all this is that it's just proving how dumb some people are. I think Trump is not only reaching a portion of the base, but also people who maybe don't even regularly vote or pay attention to politics. That may not be reflected in his poll numbers, but I feel like this is the result of 20 years of reality TV and the cult of celebrity and basically...just idiots. He says all these bananas, yet simplistic things and people are like, YEAH FUCK YEAH THIS IS WHAT I WANT. And it's like, it doesn't work that way...but you can't tell anyone that, because they don't give a shit.
I think some people identify with him in that respect, because a lot of times, the solutions are complicated - and complicated to get everyone to agree to, but the average person is like - why isn't this simple? DO THIS. There's a general distaste for politics and politicians and how things are done.
Oh, this is totally what's happening. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two Republicans in the lead right now are not politicians.
Another point I heard that I agree with is that the "Fuck yeah, America!" gang are all in their feelings about Obama trying to usher in an era of a gentler, humbler America, so they are excited about the guy who is basically talking shit about every other country and a throwback to the George Bush guns blazin days.
His appeal is because he's not a politician. I think the greater majority of republican America is just plain over "washington insiders". I blame his popularity on Congress. I think everyone is fed the fuck up with all the career politicians and he is a “business man” so he is representative of what people believe is the antithesis of that.
I also think that in part is why Hillary may not win a lot from the middle and one of her biggest weaknesses. She's just more of the same to a lot of people.