AW, serious question - Do you really believe that you are doing the best for you children and providing them enough viewpoints to make their own decisions? Every time you come here you are introduced to new concepts that open your eyes. Every.single.time. Yet you go away and come back more firmly cemented in your singular views that it's... frightening.
You are very isolated by your own choice. You exist in an echo chamber of your own making. I mean, your own church isn't conservative enough for you. You make your own rules for following God.
You don't know anything about the church I attend. You don't know anything about the "chamber" I live in or who I choose to surround myself with. You know what you think you know based on posts here and there on a message board. And even if I tried to tell you about the MANY people in my life whose different lifestyles and opinions challenge me daily, you would all continue to discount them based on the idea of me you have in your head. I think it's easier for you all just to view me that way.
But to answer your question, yes, I feel I am doing a great job of providing what my kids need to make the best decisions. I think all parents believe they are doing what is best for their kids.
AW, serious question - Do you really believe that you are doing the best for you children and providing them enough viewpoints to make their own decisions? Every time you come here you are introduced to new concepts that open your eyes. Every.single.time. Yet you go away and come back more firmly cemented in your singular views that it's... frightening.
You are very isolated by your own choice. You exist in an echo chamber of your own making. I mean, your own church isn't conservative enough for you. You make your own rules for following God.
You don't know anything about the church I attend. You don't know anything about the "chamber" I live in or who I choose to surround myself with. You know what you think you know based on posts here and there on a message board. And even if I tried to tell you about the MANY people in my life whose different lifestyles and opinions challenge me daily, you would all continue to discount them based on the idea of me you have in your head. I think it's easier for you all just to view me that way.
But to answer your question, yes, I feel I am doing a great job of providing what my kids need to make the best decisions. I think all parents believe they are doing what is best for their kids.
You've TOLD us that your conservative church isn't conservative enough for you. You've TOLD us that you are uncomfortable in your own community. Or were you lying? God doesn't like liars, aw.
pixy0stix i'm not sure where the climate change stuff is coming from. I started a recycling program in my community when there wasn't one. I buy used becayse it is better for the eart. I compost and limit chemical use and buy organic because it helps the environment. I am a better steward of the earth than the majority of the climate change believers I know. One can believe that it is in God's hands yet still feel compelled to take care if His Creation.
And yet you still buy whole cows to feed your family a very red meat rich diet. You end up conveniently glossing over the items that you don't want to change and cloaking it in your faith.
But whatever. I see you're still on your cross. Make sure to wax it so you don't get splinters.
[
So buying a cow that my neighbor raises negates all the other good things I do for the earth. That cow lives a life on pasture and is treated like a family pet. Apparently one can only care about the earth if they are a vegan.
See. No matter what I say to try to support what I say, you will always find fault.
As I wax my cross I will pondet why I seem to be held to a different standard than most people even hold themselves. I have to be either perfect or I am 100% wrong. It's the same black and white thinking I am accused of. And from up here on this cross it smells like manure my neighbor's bull produces.
Post by gretchenindisguise on Aug 31, 2015 11:55:12 GMT -5
I really think that getting into the weeds with AW isn't going to get anywhere.
The bottom line is that the laws proposed aren't for her children, or her children's protection, and she needs to accept that. AW - you live in a society. Part of living in a society is abiding by laws created to protect members of that society. Sometimes that means that you have to jump through some hoops that don't really apply to you, because they help to protect others. If you don't want to live in a society, that's all well and good, but you do. These laws protect children and don't cause harm to your children.
As I wax my cross I will pondet why I seem to be held to a different standard than most people even hold themselves. I have to be either perfect or I am 100% wrong. It's the same black and white thinking I am accused of.
You came into a thread and proclaimed that the only reason women abort their babies with genetic anomalies is because "they don't want to take care of them." That they were killing their children out of their own selfish needs.
 But when the person they disagree with is just one of those "religious fundamentalists" all rules they have for openness and understanding get chucked put the window. It's OK to hate someone like THAT.
If you are unable to recognize the horrific atrocities perpetrated by religious fundamentalists of your ilk, then I don't even know how to talk to you. If you cannot possibly see what's going on IN YOUR RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY, then how can we have a civil discussion about one of your religious choices?
Who said I don't recognize the attrocities I read about online in certain communities? And if it were happening in my community, when did I say I wouldn't do anything about it? I would gladly call CPS if someone in my very mainstream church ( yes I attend a regular old church) were abusing their kids. Or if I suspected a family in my homeschool coop abusing their kids.
And once again, for the record, I don't represent all Christisn fundamentalists. In fact, as some have told me, my heathen kids are too worldly to represent them. I'm nor sure what community you people think I am a part of.
You don't know anything about the church I attend. You don't know anything about the "chamber" I live in or who I choose to surround myself with. You know what you think you know based on posts here and there on a message board. And even if I tried to tell you about the MANY people in my life whose different lifestyles and opinions challenge me daily, you would all continue to discount them based on the idea of me you have in your head. I think it's easier for you all just to view me that way.
But to answer your question, yes, I feel I am doing a great job of providing what my kids need to make the best decisions. I think all parents believe they are doing what is best for their kids.
You've TOLD us that your conservative church isn't conservative enough for you. You've TOLD us that you are uncomfortable in your own community. Or were you lying? God doesn't like liars, aw.
apparently unlike 99% of the people on this board I am able to continue attending a church that isn't a perfect fit. We attend a very mainstream denomination and I am OK with that. I don't need to be surrounded by skirtwearing women in snoods to worship Jesus. And GASP I even let my kids associate with the families who attend yhe church despite the theological differences.
Now for some reason I have to defend my willingness to surround myself with people who challenge my theological views? I have to defend my ability to put myself and my children in situations that make me uncomfortable because of differing beliefs.
I think we've reached the slap fight portion of this thread.
You don't even know. I'll be goddamned (lol) if I give a fuck about Michelle thinking we should be nice to a bigot. Just because she couches it all in nice and reasonable language. ha!
You've TOLD us that your conservative church isn't conservative enough for you. You've TOLD us that you are uncomfortable in your own community. Or were you lying? God doesn't like liars, aw.
apparently unlike 99% of the people on this board I am able to continue attending a church that isn't a perfect fit. We attend a very mainstream denomination and I am OK with that. I don't need to be surrounded by skirtwearing women in snoods to worship Jesus. And GASP I even let my kids associate with the families who attend yhe church despite the theological differences.
Now for some reason I have to defend my willingness to surround myself with people who challenge my theological views? I have to defend my ability to put myself and my children in situations that make me uncomfortable because of differing beliefs.
As I wax my cross I will pondet why I seem to be held to a different standard than most people even hold themselves. I have to be either perfect or I am 100% wrong. It's the same black and white thinking I am accused of.Â
You came into a thread and proclaimed that the only reason women abort their babies with genetic anomalies is because "they don't want to take care of them." That they were killing their children out of their own selfish needs.
Not black and white, indeed.
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Let's go back to one of my first posts in this thread. I admitted to being black and white, which is why on PRINCIPLE I find government interference in homeschooling unconstitutional. I admit the black and white. You're just unable to see the ways in which you are too.
This is stupid. You dislike me. It's cool. I get it. let's stop wasting each other's time.
Post by lizard1131 on Aug 31, 2015 12:12:05 GMT -5
And yet you still buy whole cows to feed your family a very red meat rich diet.
O/T Can you provide more info on why buying a cow is bad? We spilt one with another family. The cow is from a local family farm. I thought this would be the best way to do it. Not a conventional farm and reducing shipping etc. We will probably always eat a lot of red meat though. Thanks!
O/T Can you provide more info on why buying a cow is bad? We spilt one with another family. The cow is from a local family farm. I thought this would be the best way to do it. Not a conventional farm and reducing shipping etc. We will probably always eat a lot of red meat though. Thanks!
Pasture-raised cows are arguably worse for the environment than CAFO cows who are finished on corn, because of the destruction of grasslands, and how long it takes to raise a grass fed cow vs. a corn fed cow, giving the cow more time on earth to produce cow farts.
Organic, no-hormone meat is certainly better for you to eat. Just not any better for the earth.
Pasture-raised cows are arguably worse for the environment than CAFO cows who are finished on corn, because of the destruction of grasslands, and how long it takes to raise a grass fed cow vs. a corn fed cow, giving the cow more time on earth to produce cow farts.
Organic, no-hormone meat is certainly better for you to eat. Just not any better for the earth.
Yeah, but don't forget that the corn and ethanol industries are WAY worse for the environment than grass/hay. Corn needs a lot more water and fertilizers b/c it's now primarily a hybrid-GMO type that grows fast (50ish days), but has shallow roots that need a lot of water and fertilizer to get big corn and are often not rotated b/c farmers try to fit in two crops per season. Additionally ethanol gives off more green house gas than typical combustion of gasoline, it's just a different mixture of gases.
AW, serious question - Do you really believe that you are doing the best for you children and providing them enough viewpoints to make their own decisions? Every time you come here you are introduced to new concepts that open your eyes. Every.single.time. Yet you go away and come back more firmly cemented in your singular views that it's... frightening.
You are very isolated by your own choice. You exist in an echo chamber of your own making. I mean, your own church isn't conservative enough for you. You make your own rules for following God.
You don't know anything about the church I attend. You don't know anything about the "chamber" I live in or who I choose to surround myself with. You know what you think you know based on posts here and there on a message board. And even if I tried to tell you about the MANY people in my life whose different lifestyles and opinions challenge me daily, you would all continue to discount them based on the idea of me you have in your head. I think it's easier for you all just to view me that way.
But to answer your question, yes, I feel I am doing a great job of providing what my kids need to make the best decisions. I think all parents believe they are doing what is best for their kids.
I don't disagree with you. But some aren't, and that's the truth. Abusing kids, even if a parent thinks it's best, is not okay. That's why the state has a vested interest in regulating homeschooling...it's not a gotcha to people who are doing it correctly, aw. It's oversight that protects everyone - but especially the children - involved. So your fierce opposition to it only allows people to continue believing all the things you don't want them to believe. If homeschooling is so great, then let people see it. Let those kids be assessed just like others. Let those schools be monitored for meeting basic standards. If there's nothing to hide, then you should be welcoming the chance to show off what an amazing job you're doing, yes?
Pasture-raised cows are arguably worse for the environment than CAFO cows who are finished on corn, because of the destruction of grasslands, and how long it takes to raise a grass fed cow vs. a corn fed cow, giving the cow more time on earth to produce cow farts.
Organic, no-hormone meat is certainly better for you to eat. Just not any better for the earth.
Yeah, but don't forget that the corn and ethanol industries are WAY worse for the environment than grass/hay. Corn needs a lot more water and fertilizers b/c it's now primarily a hybrid-GMO type that grows fast (50ish days), but has shallow roots that need a lot of water and fertilizer to get big corn and are often not rotated b/c farmers try to fit in two crops per season. Additionally ethanol gives off more green house gas than typical combustion of gasoline, it's just a different mixture of gases.
I totally get what you are saying and agree with it in theory. But like I mentioned, I disagree with on principle because it's simply not Constitutional. And I do own that part of it is fear. If you give an inch they will take a mile. There are reasonable people out there who may not like homeschooling, but disagree with over-the-top government intrusion. They simply want some form of assessment done each year. I get it.
But there are just as many people out there ( many have been vocal in this thread) who aren't comfortable with homeschooling on any level and want to make it as hard as possible for people to be able to do it.
As I mentioned, I was part of the fight against the boll two yesrs ago in Ohio that would have required CPS investigations for all homeschoolers. Homeschoolers were being treated like criminsls for making a legal choice. It's unlawful government intrusion.
I among the many homeschoolers who believe that opening the door to more government interference will just lead to more and more until finally the right is completely taken away. We have a Constitution that tells us ehat the government is and isn't allowed to do and as HSLDA proves over and over again by winning lawsuits, it simply isn't the government's business.
As said a million times in this thread, I don't want to see children abused either. But more reporting on the part of homeschoolers will not solve the problem. Forms are already falsified in many circles. Short of visits to all homes to gather the info, as long as the Constitution protects religious liberty, there is no way submitting a few forms, even medical which could be falsified by religious healers, is going to prevent these extreme cases of abuse that are being discussed in this thread.
How is this unconstitutional? Your religion says that you can do whatever the fuck you want with/to your kids? What if your kids aren't that religion? Why does the government need to impose whatever you think your religion says onto a child who doesn't practice that religion?
You don't understand the constitutional.
Also, children are not property.
If my understanding of the Constitution is flawed, then so is the understanding of the countless courts that have sided with the HSLDA over the last half century.
Children are not property, but the power to make decisions for them rests on parents. Parents get to decide all sorts of things for kids - medical decisions, where the kids get to go to school, where they live, what they eat, how they are disciplined, who they get to be around, what time they have to go to bed - this list could go on forever. I would argue that thr goverent doesn't get to decide how a child is educated any more than they get to decide what they eat or where they live. They have to be being given an exucation of some sort, they have to be fed something, and they have to live in safe dwellings, but beyond that, the specifics are none of their business. If someone believes s parent isn't doing their job, they can call CPS. That's the law.
Sorry, but the law is clearly on HSLDA's side or they eould be losing all of these court cases. You can disagree all you want, but the Constitution is on their side.
BTW, it's people who make EVERYTHING about religion so they can do whatever the fuck they want (see also, Hobby Lobby), that make atheists like me a little less "live and let live" and more "religion is actively harmful, now I want to regulate the shit out of it."
Well, once again, praise God for the Constitution. Sorry you live in a country that protects religious liberty, because for some religious people, everything IS about God.
How is this unconstitutional? Your religion says that you can do whatever the fuck you want with/to your kids? What if your kids aren't that religion? Why does the government need to impose whatever you think your religion says onto a child who doesn't practice that religion?
You don't understand the constitutional.
Also, children are not property.
If my understanding of the Constitution is flawed, then so is the understanding of the countless courts that have sided with the HSLDA over the last half century.
Children are not property, but the power to make decisions for them rests on parents. Parents get to decide all sorts of things for kids - medical decisions, where the kids get to go to school, where they live, what they eat, how they are disciplined, who they get to be around, what time they have to go to bed - this list could go on forever. I would argue that thr goverent doesn't get to decide how a child is educated any more than they get to decide what they eat or where they live. They have to be being given an exucation of some sort, they have to be fed something, and they have to live in safe dwellings, but beyond that, the specifics are none of their business. If someone believes s parent isn't doing their job, they can call CPS. That's the law.
Sorry, but the law is clearly on HSLDA's side or they eould be losing all of these court cases. You can disagree all you want, but the Constitution is on their side.
But courts can make these decisions in certain circumstances. If you make a decision to divorce the court can and will dictate where your child lives, who gets to make educational decisions, etc and be the arbiter in disagreements over this. Homeschooling is no different if you make that decision it is reasonable to expect a certain level of oversight to ensure the governments vested interest in an educated populace. The issue isn't if homeschooling is constitutional (it is and should be IMO) it's what level of oversight is legal. I would say that a basic check in with the School Board annually would be reasonable. I do agree that the CPS visit was overstepping and unnecessary, I do not agree that any and all oversight would be inappropriate. Frankly, I'm dealing with a situation currently where someone is 'homeschooling' their child to the child's detriment (not abuse but there is no real education being achieved) and I am really uncomfortable trusting that all homeschooling parents are doing their jobs based on what I am seeing in this situation. Some people can do it some people can't the gov't has the right to check in on these families.
Post by laurenpetro on Aug 31, 2015 14:28:54 GMT -5
Wasn't this entire post started by an article about how the HSLDA strong arms politicians and keeps them from passing laws that would weaken the homeschooling lobby?
I mean really, isn't that what the WHOLE FUCKING ARTICLE WAS ABOUT?
lucyhoneychurch The government can have a vested intetest in them, which is why CPS exists and people who are simply throwing bread and water at their kids can be prosecuted for neglect. But what constitutes an education is so subjective. Reading, writing, math - sure. Chemistry, history, art - are they necessary for everyone? Some would argue no. You mentioned yhe Amish, but I know plenty of non-Amish who live very simple lives and have no use for half of ehat is taught. Are they abusing their children if instead of teaching them Literature they decide to teach them farming skills or a trade at a young age?
HSLDA has fought this fight many times and won it, particularly for unschoolers. This is also why the Amish you mentioned can opt out of school after grade 8. The Constitution doesn't guarantee the right of the government to decide WHAT constitutes adequate education for people outside of government schools or chartered private schools.
And I say this all as a parent who will not be opting out of subjects listed above and whose curricula are very similar to what is taught in gov schools. Just saying that thelaw is definitely on HSLDAs side whether or not we agree with it.
AW - you are basically a cartoon yelling "I DO WHAT I WANT!" and don't seem to give a fuck about how your desire to do things JUST how you want is detrimental to anyone else.
I wish Jesus would talk to you about this other stuff that actually matters, rather than the importance of wearing a snood and skirt all the time. But that would be inconvenient, so it probably won't happen. KOKO.
AW - you are basically a cartoon yelling "I DO WHAT I WANT!" and don't seem to give a fuck about how your desire to do things JUST how you want is detrimental to anyone else.
I wish Jesus would talk to you about this other stuff that actually matters, rather than the importance of wearing a snood and skirt all the time. But that would be inconvenient, so it probably won't happen. KOKO.
If Jesus wanted me to wear a snood, He wouldn't have given me such fabulous hair.
/dead
I remember when she justified her hood/scarf whatever with this. All I could think is, "pride goeth before the fall, aw."
AW - you are basically a cartoon yelling "I DO WHAT I WANT!" and don't seem to give a fuck about how your desire to do things JUST how you want is detrimental to anyone else.
I wish Jesus would talk to you about this other stuff that actually matters, rather than the importance of wearing a snood and skirt all the time. But that would be inconvenient, so it probably won't happen. KOKO.
If Jesus wanted me to wear a snood, He wouldn't have given me such fabulous hair.
Yes, you can feed your kids as you see fit. But if you're starving them, the big bad gobument has the duty to step in and get them fed.
Ditto education. You can educate your kids as you see fit, but if you're starving them off basic skills, big G can and should step in.
Starvation you can see. The only way to know if kids are being 'starved' in an educational way is to... Delve deeper.
I love the analogy, too. Because government approval if curriculum and educational outcomes is the equivalent of government approval of meal plans and nutritional profiles. No one would argue for the latter for all parents.