5yr old won't go to bed?

[simpsongal]

Asking for a friend who doesn't know what to do - her 5 year old used to go down fine but the past 1.5 weeks will NOT go to bed.  She stays up until ~ midnight and is of course a wreck the next day for an early wake up. 

WWYD?  I think they tried putting a childproof lock on the door so she can't get out, but I don't think that worked.  I feel so bad for her.  As hard as my days can be, I can always count the minutes until bedtime freedom.

[CrazyLucky]

Did she just start kindergarten? Or did something else major change? What has your friend tried? DS just started kindergarten and has a bit of anxiety about it. So I sit with him for about 10 minutes and he asks all kinds of questions and then I tell him he needs to get his rest and I need to (whatever, do dishes, go potty, do laundry) and I'll check on him in a few minutes. And then I do, but he is usually asleep.
We also did the sticker chart when he was younger, and it would probably work at age five. He got a sticker any night he stayed in bed all night. If he got five stickers in a row, he got whatever the prize was - a coloring book, a trip to the ice cream place, whatever, but low cost.

[CloudBee]

She won't even stay in bed with a book and flashlight?

[simpsongal]

Sept 1, 2015 12:36:02 GMT -5 CloudBee said:

She won't even stay in bed with a book and flashlight?

Nope, she refuses to stay in her or go to bed.

She freaks out and screams.  They've tried threats, rewards, stickers, etc. - it's crazy out of character for her.  She's usually very good.

[simpsongal]

Sept 1, 2015 12:22:57 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

Did she just start kindergarten? Or did something else major change? What has your friend tried? DS just started kindergarten and has a bit of anxiety about it. So I sit with him for about 10 minutes and he asks all kinds of questions and then I tell him he needs to get his rest and I need to (whatever, do dishes, go potty, do laundry) and I'll check on him in a few minutes. And then I do, but he is usually asleep.
We also did the sticker chart when he was younger, and it would probably work at age five. He got a sticker any night he stayed in bed all night. If he got five stickers in a row, he got whatever the prize was - a coloring book, a trip to the ice cream place, whatever, but low cost.

She's not quite 5 so no kindergarten until  next year.  It all started when they got back from a family vacation.  It seems like separation anxiety at first but now it's like she's just stubborn and obstinate.  She's usually very sweet and compliant.

ETA: stickers haven't worked - she's missing the water park today b/c of the behavior. 

[simpsongal]

Sept 1, 2015 12:32:46 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

What do you mean he won't go to bed? Like he just keeps leaving his room or he's staying awake in there doing stuff or...?

(I don't know why I'm asking because I probably have no advice anyway lol)

Won't go in her room and stay.  Will wander around the house, follow her parents until midnight.  Intermittent anger and tanrums mixed in there (I gather, when they tell her it's bed time).

[Deleted]

Will she sleep on the floor in their room?

I know it's another battle to fight but it's an easy one in comparison to everything else she has going on.

Let her do that for a bit, then try her own room again.

Who really knows kids have phases constantly.

My 4 year old is a great sleeper but she has nights where she doesn't settle/wanders/whines etc. I just say, "Mommy is really tired. So is Daddy. We are sleeping but you can bring your pillow and blanket and sleep on our floor.!" Then I pretty much ignore her after that. She's usually asleep in about two minutes on the floor anyways.

I think some of it is dev. too and they're just learning so much and literally can't shut the brain off.

[lilac05]

I have sat in DS's room (or laid in his bed) with him before. It removes the battle. If she has previously gone to bed without issue, chances are really good that she'll return to that behavior...hopefully soon. Something has just happened to make her need a little reassurance right now. It's probably just a phase. It's hard to remember that they're still so little. They won't need us forever.

We also have a lot of success with Cosmic Kids Yoga on YouTube. When we remember to use it, it seems to calm him down and help him go to sleep.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Sept 1, 2015 12:43:12 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Sept 1, 2015 12:32:46 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

What do you mean he won't go to bed? Like he just keeps leaving his room or he's staying awake in there doing stuff or...?

(I don't know why I'm asking because I probably have no advice anyway lol)

Won't go in her room and stay.  Will wander around the house, follow her parents until midnight.  Intermittent anger and tanrums mixed in there (I gather, when they tell her it's bed time).

did anything change w the family dynamic ? Until recently dd was a challenge to put down when her dad and I split. The bedtime routine that had previously worked like a charm was ignored and any attempt to nudge her back to it was met w a firestorm of anger and tantrums the only reason why dd is less of a pistol at bedtime is bc she's EXHAUSTED from a full day of 1st grade still won't sleep in her own bed but that's going to take professional help to work through :*(

[simpsongal]

No change in family dynamic. My friend is afraid that allowing her daughter to sleep in the parents' bed or the couch will start other issues or enable. But maybe it's worth a shot for the time being. The floor idea is interesting, I'm not sure she would go for that.

[ECB]

Sept 1, 2015 12:43:12 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Sept 1, 2015 12:32:46 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

Won't go in her room and stay.  Will wander around the house, follow her parents until midnight.  Intermittent anger and tanrums mixed in there (I gather, when they tell her it's bed time).

As much as it sucks, I'd be staying in her room w/ her until she fell asleep.  The fact that she's following them around until midnight, something isn't working.   I don't want this to sound judgy because it's not meant to - I'm genuinely asking:  Why are they "letting" her follow them around?  She needs to learn that at bedtime, it's time to be IN her room. 

W/o knowing what exactly they've done/ not done, etc - how willing are they to just let her scream and cry for awhile?  How willing are they to just lay with her and talk to her?  And in turn, possibly until she falls asleep?  Which I also wonder- have they been asking her open ended questions to try and determine WHY she doesn't want to go to sleep? 

I'd also perhaps try to not say "it's bedtime".  I'd focus on "Let's go get our PJs on now!" and whatever else.  Heck, just this week, with my 6 year old, I told him if he went up and changed and brushed his teeth quickly, he could come back down and watch one more short show.  Suddenly, he can change and brush his teeth SUPER fast!  But then, he'd come down and I usually try to get him to snuggle with me.  It helps with the calm down period before bed.

What crazylucky said - I've done that too.  I'd lay w/ DS for a little bit then need to go do "something".  I'd tell him I'd be back in 10 minutes, which usually was more like 20 if not longer.  Honestly, at that point, if he hadn't come out of his room - I assumed he just fell asleep and I didn't chance going back in and possibly waking him! 

[gibbinator]

Since it sounds like she just doesn't want to be alone, I'd probably sit in her room with her until she falls asleep. Once she's ok with bedtime again I'd do a sleep lady shuffle type plan until they're back to normal.

[simpsongal]

I'll talk to her about some of your suggestions. I think they've tried the yelling, tough love, threats aspect more than staying. Open ended questions haven't yielded much but I'll suggest they try that approach until this phase passes.

Thanks all.

[jenny1223]

Oh man, I feel for her. DS (3.5) can be the same way. It's usually when he's over tired so putting him to bed earlier can help. Same with sticking to a bed time routine. Sometimes I'll stay with him in his room but that often just amps him up more even if I'm not talking to him.

We did build a fort in his room the other day and I let him sleep in it. He thought it was pretty cool and did much better than usual at bedtime. Obviously not a long term solution but maybe a way to get her to want to stay in her room/bed for now.

[zarapipe]

Does she nap? Dd never goes to bed easily when she naps at school.

[lilac05]

After several nights of DS1 being up WAY too late, I took my own advice & laid on the floor of his room again while he relaxed. When I left, he wasn't asleep, but he was close. Hopefully your friend will have as much success.

[imojoebunny]

She hasn't had strep recently has she? i have know two kids with dramatic changes in behavior because of PANDAS. It is rare and strange, but causes OCD and anxiety, including sleep issues.

If something physical is excluded, I would go with rewards for staying in her room, they don't have to be big, TV time on Saturday, a special trip, for staying quietly in her room. I never make my kids go to sleep (had no luck with that), but I make them stay quietly in their rooms. We put my 6 year old to bed at 7:45, and at 9:00 he was still awake. Last night he ask to go to bed at 7:00. Bed time, which is 7:45, to your room, stories read, teeth brushed, means that my older child reads for 30 minutes at least, and little guy, reads or plays for a 15-30 minutes normally, but sometimes, it is 2 hours. they might wander down, but if they do, we stop everything and make them rock in a rocker for 5 minutes, by minute 2, they want to go back.

[MamaMaui24]

Have they tried that "rabbit wants to go to sleep" book?

The Rabbit Who Wants To Fall Asleep: A New Way Of Getting Children To Sleep by Carl-Joh... www.amazon.com/dp/B00BC09M1U/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_S1T5vbCZKQVGX

[kitty]

My 4 year old has recently been saying she is afraid of the dark so we got her a flashlight to keep under her pillow and one of those things that will project stars onto the ceiling and turns off automatically after a certain number of minutes.

I think I would start small with rewards and frequent checking - like she has to stay in her bed for 10 minutes and then mommy will come back and check on her and she will get a sticker, and then repeat again and again with a 10-15 minute interval. Obviously, you would have to get more stickers to get the ultimate reward.

With DD, I emphasize that she doesn't have to go to sleep but she has to stay in her bed, the same way I tell her she doesn't have to pee but she has to sit on the potty and try. 99% of the time she does fall asleep after staying in her bed for a while and she does realize she has to pee once she takes the time to sit down and try but phrasing it like that helps her "save face" and feel like she has more autonomy.

Is she still napping? I know some of DD's friends still take a two hour nap and then are legitimately not tired until 9-10pm.