"learning" something - nature vs nurture

[ijack]

this is a bad title, but I'm curious your thoughts on this.
Do you think it's possible for anyone of average intelligence (I'm not going to define it, just roll with average) to learn how to do anything they wanted well (lets say better than average)?
For instance, can anyone learn to do math really well? Can anyone learn to dance well? Can anyone learn to sing in key? Can anyone learn to play an instrument to the point others would want to listen to them?
Or are these things that you have to have some sort of natural ability to do well?

[aspentosh]

I think it's true that people can excel at something naturally, but I also think it's possible to excel at something because you work hard for it. The degree of excellence (being a pro football player or concert pianist) is where it gets hard to say.

[Deleted]

Nope.

I think people have different innate abilities. My brother, for example, can pick out pitches by ear and learn to play a song on the guitar or piano without ever seeing music. Once he learned the proper keys, nobody ever taught him that. I took private music lessons for 11 years and still would have trouble telling if I was sharp or flat.

Hard work can, of course, compensate to some degree for lack of innate ability. And lack of hard work can result in the squandering of innate ability. But I don't think anyone can be Mozart if he just works hard enough.

[joenali]

The age old question!! Watching friends who are in my tri team learn to swim having never been formally taught is amazing to me. Will they ever be better than someone who has been swimming forever? Maybe not, but if they have the drive and desire to work hard and stick with it I think it could happen! I feel the same about other things, running, math, biking, etc.

[honeybee]

I study neuroplasticity and learning. The brain is pretty amazing but it also has limitations and those limitations without a doubt vary between individuals.

You may be able to learn to play with the fluidity of Mozart but without the unique qualities he gained through both genetics and his environment its unlikely you could ever create like him. The same could be said for any number of abilities or talents.

[ECB]

Aug 21, 2012 10:29:03 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Hard work can, of course, compensate to some degree for lack of innate ability. And lack of hard work can result in the squandering of innate ability. But I don't think anyone can be Mozart if he just works hard enough.

This.

[mrssavy42112]

I honestly believe that anyone, no matter what their intelligence level, can learn anything they want. But, only if they have a strong enough desire. Someone with talent doesn’t have to try hard. It just comes to them. But the person who isn’t so fortunate, will have to really fight to make that thing happen. If they don’t have that fight in them, then it’s not going to happen.

[Deleted]

Above average, yes in most cases...but exceptional I think usually takes more than just hard work.

[Wines Not Whines]

I think hard work and training can make an average person above average. But there's a huge difference between "above average" and "best in the world," and I think you need natural talent to achieve the latter.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2012 10:29:03 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Nope.

Hard work can, of course, compensate to some degree for lack of innate ability. And lack of hard work can result in the squandering of innate ability. But I don't think anyone can be Mozart if he just works hard enough.

This is a good way to put it. Talent really does go a long way but it's not going to be everything.

I'm smart (or so i like to think, haha.) I cannot sing on key to save my life. I can't even TELL that I'm singing off key - I think I sound great!! then once in a while I sort of "hear" myself and I think, oh boy. I can't learn why I'm off, pitch wise etc. I also cannot dance and cannot be taught. I've tried to learn. It just isn't happening. Granted I could put forth some more effort and probably do a better job than I do, but I am never going to be a great or even a good dancer no matter how hard I work.

[Kore]

Aug 21, 2012 10:36:15 GMT -5 ECB said:

Aug 21, 2012 10:29:03 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Hard work can, of course, compensate to some degree for lack of innate ability. And lack of hard work can result in the squandering of innate ability. But I don't think anyone can be Mozart if he just works hard enough.

This.

The movie Amadeus was the first thing I thought of when I read this

[Deleted]

I assure you, no matter how hard I try, I will never be a good singer.

[flygirl22]

I think that genetics plays a part, but I do think that most people can become at pretty competent at doing most anything. I don't think that everyone can really excell at anything with enough practice.

[RitzyHeifer]

Aug 21, 2012 10:57:53 GMT -5 Kore said:

Aug 21, 2012 10:36:15 GMT -5 ECB said:

This.

The movie Amadeus was the first thing I thought of when I read this

Meanwhile I've just been walking around with "Rock Me Amadeus" in my head....

[njohnson1972]

Twin studies on IQ and Nature vs Nurture I think give a lot of insight.

I remember seeing a show where there were a pair of identical twins and in utero, one twin (will call him A) received more nutrients than his identical brother (B). So at birth, A was significantly larger than B (nature). As the boys were approaching school age, A was more advanced than B. Both boys had their IQs tested and A's was higher. B was then given additional tutoring (nurture). Some time later, their IQs were tested again and A's was the same and B's was the same's as A.

What they basically determined is that the is a predetermined level/max intelligence in each person. But with some nurturing, you can develop each person to their max. Each person has a limit though and that is what this study showed. No amount of tutoring was going to get B's IQ beyond A's even though they have the same DNA. They both reached their maximum potential IQ.

[drloretta]

Yes

[DarcyLongfellow]

It looks like I disagree with most of you :-)

I think that yes -- it is absolutely possible for someone of average intelligence to learn to do a task (math, singing, dancing, etc.) very well. I think that someone of average intelligence can absolutely excel at almost anything they want.

I don't think that person could be the next Mozart, but that wasn't the question.

There's a difference between learning to play an instrument very well and playing in an orchestra and being a genius who writes music that other people marvel at generations later. The latter takes inate ability, the former does not.

[Kore]

Aug 21, 2012 11:13:22 GMT -5 flygirl said:

I assure you, no matter how hard I try, I will never be a good singer.

Nor will I become the world's tallest above average but not exceptional ballerina :-p