I hate to see the body of a child, but only my activist friends were posting about the refugees until today. Now everyone is posting. It took a child to die. To see his little feet. My Moms group wants to try to sponsor a family. If that was my child, I would want people to see. To care. To empathize.
It didn't just take a child to die; children have been dying before this. It wasn't until the photo was picked up by the media that people took notice. I don't want to see it, but the answer isn't to stop publishing the photo. It's to do something to stop people from dying like this.
On a per capita basis, Canada accepts more refugees than anyone. In case you needed more reasons that Canada is AWESOME.
Does anyone know what the effective charities are on the ground? Red Cross/Crescent? Some NGO devoted to getting EU countries to get off their collective asses?
Unfortunately, our current government has really curtailed our refugee program, made cuts to refugee healthcare and actually denied refugee status to this particular little boy's family (his aunt lives in BC and tried to sponsor them). Please don't put Canada on a pedestal on this issue. We suck pretty bad regarding this right now.
Everyone sucks for a lot of reasons. Even if there were no political problems (which there are tons of in the US and EU), there are huge logistical challenges. The scale of displacement is massive. There's not a lot of documentation for many refugees so it's hard to figure out. And the refugees will need a ton of support.
But despite the Harper government cuts, if the US accepted as many refugees as Canada, we'd accept like 200,000/year; instead we accept about 60,000.
I'm pro-showing the photos of the drowned refugee children. I hadn't been thinking a whole lot about Syria, and I'm someone who pays a lot of attention to news and politics, and has a lot of interest in social justice. I'm paying a lot of attention now. I'm looking at what I can do to help; trying to see where I could send money. Trying to pay attention to the issue, trying to bring the issue to the attention of my students.
I think it's actually great journalism. That little picture of that sweet little child, who was someone's darling baby boy, conveys more than a passionate op ed ever could.
I agree that it's sparked conversation that should have been happening, but I will embrace my privilege and say I am glad I haven't seen the picture. I am reading stories, learning, and not avoiding the actual story, but I have not sought out the photo and have been fortunate to not have seen it yet.
On the same note, h and I watch comic relief and such, but since dd was born, we have had to ffwd through the videos that show children sick. It breaks my heart and I have a really hard time watching that stuff. I don't avoid the actual issues though.
This photo is *nothing* in terms of what is happening over there and yet this, relatively tame, photo is what it has taken for people to wake up and start caring. I lived in Spain when the US started bombing Iraq. The news casts and papers had a much different style than what was being shown in the US, more realistic, more blood, more dead bodies, more naked bodies, more people screaming, crying, etc. The journalists in the US seem to try to show a prettier picture when in reality it's not pretty. It's horrific. It's sad. It's unacceptable that humans are being treated this way and forced to put their babies and children in a boat across treacherous water because that is the SAFER option.
UO: I think that not wanting to see pictures related to the consequences of war, the reality that other human beings are experiencing, is a pretty big sign of privilege. Must be nice for us, not living in war torn societies, to just shove our heads in the sand and pretend life isn't horribly shitty for people in other countries. And yes, for children in other countries. So shitty they put their lives at risk trying to escape.
edited for a typo that affected meaning.
I get this. I promise I don't want to not know or ignore it. But I have PTSD issues so seeing them posted on FB can be jarring. But really it has nothing to do with not wanting to know. One can be well informed and aware of an issue without wanting to be surprised my photos of dead bodies.
Post by karinothing on Sept 3, 2015 19:41:36 GMT -5
I also don't think the picture will change anything. Countries aren't just going by accept all the refugees. US policy isn't going to change. Americans are not going to take to the street or the polls en mass to change anything. We didn't even do that when our own citizens were dying in a unnecessary war. People will donate and feel good and nothing will happen in Syria.
IMO we do not have a government that listens to the people when it comes to foreign policy. I mean. ..I guess I am just jaded. Think of all the fundraising after the earth quake on Haiti and yeats later the averge American doesn't give Haiti one thought and things are all z mess.
In light of the sleep chart floating around FB ... I don't care that dd goes down at 8:30-9p when according to the chart she should be going down at 7:30p
I'm a single mom who works ! By the time we get home, make & eat dinner, get through hw and I actually get some time to spend w her it's 8:30p. I don't know they expect households w/o a sahp to be able to get to kids to bed THAT early ?!?
Or there's the kid like mine who can be bribed to stay in her room/bed, but isn't actually asleep until well past 9pm.
I'm annoyed by the people who think it's some kind of revelation that kids need sleep. Well, no shit. Too bad school doesn't conform to my child's ideal sleep 10pm-10am schedule. 9pm-7am is the best I can do and she catches up on weekends.
No. We do not get to sit here and say that nothing we do will change anything so we might as well do nothing. Another sign of our PRIVILEGE. We keep on trying things, because we are HUMANS and have the capacity to change ourselves and change the culture and society in which we live.
"There is no failure except in no longer trying." Elbert Hubbard
Thank you. It disgusts me to see people complaining about having to see/learn about these refugees.
USA Today isn't publishing the photos to help the cause, it's sensational journalism to make money.
Of course I'm privileged, I'd go out on a limb and say we all are here in one or more ways. That will always color my opinion. That doesn't mean I'm ignoring the issue, or refusing to educate myself on the issue.
I simply don't think photos of dead children on a beach are required to tell the story.
Ok. How much attention were you paying to Syria before yesterday? And just because journalists also happen to sell ad space doesn't mean their content should be written off.
Re: the refugees issues, iDK what to say that hasn't been said. I'm sorry that seeing pictures of dead people is traumatic to some, but it's pretty fucking traumatic to comb through published lists of names of refugees found at sea, dead and alive, to see if any of your relatives are on them. I don't think the media owes any one specific group of people a certain kind of sensitivity and I'm with rugbywife and anyone else who maintains that these images are necessary in any attempt to change public opinion and public policy. Yes, the public attention span is short and perhaps people will forget all about Syria by next month, but right now, they are paying more attention to it than they did last month.
No. We do not get to sit here and say that nothing we do will change anything so we might as well do nothing. Another sign of our PRIVILEGE. We keep on trying things, because we are HUMANS and have the capacity to change ourselves and change the culture and society in which we live.
"There is no failure except in no longer trying." Elbert Hubbard
I didn't say do nothing. I just don't think a picture will change anything. Look almost 200 immigrants die in the AZ desert each year. People's response? Armed milita at the border.
I am just a bit jaded I guess. But even if more people take on refugees it isn't going to fix the problem. We need to fix Syria, which means we need to get rid of ISIS, which we can't do without war (and probably not even with). Again I am not saying that no one should do anything just that I do not think a picture in 2015 will finally spring the world to action on problem it has been ignoring since 2011.
No. We do not get to sit here and say that nothing we do will change anything so we might as well do nothing. Another sign of our PRIVILEGE. We keep on trying things, because we are HUMANS and have the capacity to change ourselves and change the culture and society in which we live.
"There is no failure except in no longer trying." Elbert Hubbard
And even talking about it is doing something. It is all over my Facebook feed. People want to know where to give. The politicians in Canada are talking about it. People are changing their votes based on this information. People are talking about adopting a Syrian family.
I believe just talking about issues matters. Just the act of discussion matters. Think about some of the discussions about race that have happened on these boards alone.
That photo is engaging people in discussion. Some of that discussion is fucking hateful and horrible, I have read comments on articles that make me want to cry. But some of that discussion is meaningful and educational and that matters. It is how societies move forward.
edit: to clarify, I don't think talk alone will solve all the world's problems, but I believe discourse is an important aspect to societal change. Ignoring issues, not talking about them, not engaging in difficult conversations, that leads us nowhere better and possibly to worse places.
I believe just talking about issues matters. Just the act of discussion matters. Think about some of the discussions about race that have happened on these boards alone.
That photo is engaging people in discussion. Some of that discussion is fucking hateful and horrible, I have read comments on articles that make me want to cry. But some of that discussion is meaningful and educational and that matters. It is how societies move forward.
I will agree discussion is important. I just wish the pictures came with some advanced warning.
I also think the endless cycle of short term outrage with no results is just depressing.
I think we apply the term hero too broadly. Just because someone is in the military, or is a cop, doctor, teacher, nurse, etc, they are not automatically a hero. Those people all collect paychecks and are compensated for their jobs. They're not volunteers.
Some are good, some are bad, and a few are heroic.
I'd extend that thought to cancer patients/survivors, too. I had cancer and went through a really shitty time in my life. That does not make me a hero. I have definitely met many cancer patients/survivors who are heroes, who truly inspire others and make people's lives better. But simply having a sucky, horrible, awful disease does not automatically make one a hero.
I would, however, say that the vast majority of caregivers and medical workers for cancer patients are heroes given how much they impact the patient's life.
I believe just talking about issues matters. Just the act of discussion matters. Think about some of the discussions about race that have happened on these boards alone.
That photo is engaging people in discussion. Some of that discussion is fucking hateful and horrible, I have read comments on articles that make me want to cry. But some of that discussion is meaningful and educational and that matters. It is how societies move forward.
I will agree discussion is important. I just wish the pictures came with some advanced warning.
I also think the endless cycle of short term outrage with no results is just depressing.
But we can't stop the outrage. We just have to try to do something. A small thing even. And talk is worth it. You never know who you inspire. Maybe Donald trump sees that photo an decides that refugees are inportant and gives $$$$$$ You never know.
I believe just talking about issues matters. Just the act of discussion matters. Think about some of the discussions about race that have happened on these boards alone.
That photo is engaging people in discussion. Some of that discussion is fucking hateful and horrible, I have read comments on articles that make me want to cry. But some of that discussion is meaningful and educational and that matters. It is how societies move forward.
I will agree discussion is important. I just wish the pictures came with some advanced warning.
I also think the endless cycle of short term outrage with no results is just depressing.
I can agree with the bolded, for sure. I just think that people's reactions to the photo, saying they don't want to see it, that's rich. Those poor refugees have seen SO MUCH WORSE but we struggle to look at one photo. We should struggle with it and we should HAVE to struggle with the emotions we feel when we see it.
I will agree discussion is important. I just wish the pictures came with some advanced warning.
I also think the endless cycle of short term outrage with no results is just depressing.
I can agree with the bolded, for sure. I just think that people's reactions to the photo, saying they don't want to see it, that's rich. Those poor refugees have seen SO MUCH WORSE but we struggle to look at one photo. We should struggle with it and we should HAVE to struggle with the emotions we feel when we see it.
I can see that view point, but I don't hear people making the same argument about watching ISIS beheadings. I just think it is 100% possible to not want to see the pictures and be informed and empathetic.
I can agree with the bolded, for sure. I just think that people's reactions to the photo, saying they don't want to see it, that's rich. Those poor refugees have seen SO MUCH WORSE but we struggle to look at one photo. We should struggle with it and we should HAVE to struggle with the emotions we feel when we see it.
I can see that view point, but I don't hear people making the same argument about watching ISIS beheadings. I just think it is 100% possible to not want to see the pictures and be informed and empathetic.
I can see that view point, but I don't hear people making the same argument about watching ISIS beheadings. I just think it is 100% possible to not want to see the pictures and be informed and empathetic.
I am not sure I am following your point.
I meant people ask why the news show the ISIS beheading videos all the time and plenty of folks on this board hAve said they do not want to see them. No one thinks saying that is disgusting. But that is what many of these refugees are escaping. That is their reality. But no one is arguing that we have to watch the beheadings to feel empathy about the situation.
I really do get what you are saying about discussion and I don't think the news should have not published the pictures. I just disagree that not wanting to see pictures means you can't grasp the gravity of the situation.
I meant people ask why the news show the ISIS beheading videos all the time and plenty of folks on this board hAve said they do not want to see them. No one thinks saying that is disgusting. But that is what many of these refugees are escaping. That is their reality. But no one is arguing that we have to watch the beheadings to feel empathy about the situation.
I really do get what you are saying about discussion and I don't think the news should have not published the pictures. I just disagree that not wanting to see pictures means you can't grasp the gravity of the situation.
Ah! I see your point about the ISIS thing. I hadn't noticed it and I don't have an explanation for the disparity in responses.
And I am not saying that people not wanting to see the photo can't grasp the gravity of the situation. I think plenty of people can grasp the gravity. But I think even more chose to ignore it because it is easy to ignore when you aren't forced to see the atrocities. When people say they don't want to see it because it makes them uncomfortable, I nod my head and say, yes, it should make you uncomfortable, it should make you feel lots of things.
Anyways, I am going to bed. I hope I didn't offend anyone, I like discussing this kind of stuff but I never mean to offend or go overboard, which I know I can do.
There are no dead babies in my feed but a ton of posts about Kim Davis getting arrested. Perhaps I've hidden everyone that posts about politics issues? Regardless, I still feel pretty informed about what's been happening in Syria.
I also don't think the picture will change anything. Countries aren't just going by accept all the refugees. US policy isn't going to change. Americans are not going to take to the street or the polls en mass to change anything. We didn't even do that when our own citizens were dying in a unnecessary war. People will donate and feel good and nothing will happen in Syria.
IMO we do not have a government that listens to the people when it comes to foreign policy. I mean. ..I guess I am just jaded. Think of all the fundraising after the earth quake on Haiti and yeats later the averge American doesn't give Haiti one thought and things are all z mess.
This photo could very well alter the Canadian election results. And THAT could drastically change things.
I have not seen the photo, but feel for the family of that poor child who not only died tragically but also whose dead body has been blast all over the world. I doubt the family gave their consent or were even notified.
I have not seen the photo, but feel for the family of that poor child who not only died tragically but also whose dead body has been blast all over the world. I doubt the family gave their consent or were even notified.
I'm not sure if he gave consent prior to the photo being published but he did say he was happy/glad/grateful that his son's photo/memory was bringing attention to the issues.
*Edited for clarity.
I've avoided reading anything about it for fear that the picture would be included so I've only heard about it here. I'm glad that the family has been involved.