Anyone know anything about vape/e-cigarettes?

[ttt]

H is trying to quit smoking (YAY!) and his dentist recommended he try these (the vape but not the other kind because sometimes those blow up?? I'm not sure). Does anyone know anything about these? Which kinds are better than others, etc.? 

Yes, it looks like you're smoking an iPod (lol meshaliuknits) but if it helps him quit, I don't care how stupid it looks. 

[mouse]

I don't know many people who've tried them, but it seems to be a replacement, not a step towards quitting.

I'm very skeptical that there aren't health risks. Maybe less than with cigarettes, but I think at this point it's a huge question mark.

[rugbywife]

I don't know much but I do know you can buy in varying amounts of nicotine, including none (just flavour). If the goal is to decrease nicotine til it's nothing, ok, fine. But the reality is that the physiological addiction is over 72 hours after you quit cold turkey, the rest is in your head. The mental addiction is very real - smoking is way more about our habits than it is about our reliance on nicotine. So with an E-cig with no nicotine, that mental game is still there. But way less dangerous, lol.

I quit cold turkey and used nicorette gum to get me through the hard 'habit' moments.

[Velvetshady]

I have a bunch of friends that have replaced smoking with vaping, but I also doubt many were looking to "quit" in the first place, just looking for "healthier". I will say as a non-smoker, I'd much rather be around people vaping than smoking--it doesn't trigger my asthma or allergies and it smells much better.

[2curlydogs]

I don't know much, but now I'm getting adds for eCigs. Goddammit.

[W.T.Faulkner]

My FI used to smoke a pack a day and now he uses a vape. He uses juice with nicotine in it, so I wouldn't say he "quit," but to me, this seems to be a better alternative.

[wawa]

My brother is another heavy smoker who replaced his cig habit with a vape habit. He smells better, he gets sick less, and he can do physically active stuff without being short of breath. So win all around for somebody who is using all available willpower to quit a wide variety of other habits and didn't have any left over for smoking.

My only quibble is that he sees nothing wrong with vaping in places he'd nevery smoke and I'm the ass hole who has to ask him not to breath vapor clouds into the pancakes I'm cooking or over my kid.

[ttt]

Sept 11, 2015 11:26:29 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

I don't know much but I do know you can buy in varying amounts of nicotine, including none (just flavour). If the goal is to decrease nicotine til it's nothing, ok, fine. But the reality is that the physiological addiction is over 72 hours after you quit cold turkey, the rest is in your head. The mental addiction is very real - smoking is way more about our habits than it is about our reliance on nicotine. So with an E-cig with no nicotine, that mental game is still there. But way less dangerous, lol.

I quit cold turkey and used nicorette gum to get me through the hard 'habit' moments.

 H quit once before years ago and it was absolutely horrible. He nearly ended up in the hospital twice that week with panic attacks. He definitely had a major physiological reaction to quitting. The mental aspect was hard for a couple weeks after that. 

Right now, anything that gets him to reduce the amount of smoke he's getting into his mouth and lungs is good. I had kind of given up on him ever quitting again, so even just a reduction would make me happy right now. (And if he smells better, that's a huge plus too!)

[Deleted]

In his situation, I'd definitely encourage him to try it. He can wean down to lower nicotine contents as and if he feels ready.

[rugbywife]

Sept 11, 2015 12:05:18 GMT -5 ttt said:

Sept 11, 2015 11:26:29 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

I don't know much but I do know you can buy in varying amounts of nicotine, including none (just flavour). If the goal is to decrease nicotine til it's nothing, ok, fine. But the reality is that the physiological addiction is over 72 hours after you quit cold turkey, the rest is in your head. The mental addiction is very real - smoking is way more about our habits than it is about our reliance on nicotine. So with an E-cig with no nicotine, that mental game is still there. But way less dangerous, lol.

I quit cold turkey and used nicorette gum to get me through the hard 'habit' moments.

 H quit once before years ago and it was absolutely horrible. He nearly ended up in the hospital twice that week with panic attacks. He definitely had a major physiological reaction to quitting. The mental aspect was hard for a couple weeks after that. 

Right now, anything that gets him to reduce the amount of smoke he's getting into his mouth and lungs is good. I had kind of given up on him ever quitting again, so even just a reduction would make me happy right now. (And if he smells better, that's a huge plus too!)

I think these two things could totally be achieved with e-cigs. I do agree with PP that I don't know if enough is really known about them to deem them as 'safe' but if it means less nicotine, and by far fewer chemicals overall, it is, at the very least, a better option. 

[meshaliuknits]

I know the cherry flavor smells like ass bathed in cough syrup. So don't get that.

[Deleted]

Here's a good article about them that talks about the research that's been done on theatrical foggers/hazers, which use the same chemical to make 'smoke' as ecig/vapes


Are e-cigarettes safe or not? Research on fog machines could lift the haze
By Andrew Couts — November 5, 2013

Read more: www.digitaltrends.com/opinion/broadway-can-teach-us-safety-e-cigarettes/#ixzz3lS5lTjjj

Ask e-cigarette advocates for proof that their battery-powered vice is a safer way to maintain a nicotine addiction, and they’ll likely point you to an August 2013 study (PDF) from Drexel University’s School of Public Health, which found that “exposures from using e-cigarettes fall well below the threshold for concern for compounds with known toxicity.”

E-cigarette opponents will shoot back with a 2009 study from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration that found evidence of various carcinogens and other toxins in the vapor of two brands of e-cigarettes – findings that were supported earlier this year in a study out of France.

And those who remain on the fence will all say the same thing: We simply don’t know enough about e-cigarettes to judge their safety one way or another. As the World Health Organization wrote in July, “The potential risks [e-cigarettes] pose for the health of users remain undetermined.”

Overall lung function of those “working close to the fog source” was “significantly lower” than those not exposed to fog.
This is the narrative you’ll hear most often about e-cigarettes – that we just don’t have the science to back up safety claims one way or another. But none of the studies I’ve seen thus far – and I’ve read a whole lot of them – seem to take into consideration a potentially useful body of knowledge: Studies of fog machine “smoke.”

E-cigarettes, you see, are basically mini fog machines. Both work by heating glycols or glycerin to their boiling point, which then produces vapor. (Fog machines also use mineral oils, which are not used in e-cigarette juice.) There are a few significant differences – not the least of which is that e-cigarette juice often contains nicotine while fog machine vapor doesn’t – but the mechanics and chemicals are, at least generally, the same.

Like the safety of e-cigarettes, the health effects of fog machine vapor are matter of contention, especially among theatrical workers who spend much of their work day enveloped in fake “smoke.” However, unlike e-cigarettes, which were reportedly invented in 2003 by Chinese pharmacist Hon Lik, medical professionals have studied the health effects of fog machine vapor for decades.

fog machine
Theater limits on fog machine “smoke” remain high, despite itchy eyes and throats.
The first of these studies was released in 1991 by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), which was asked by the Actors’ Equity Association (AEA) and the League of American Theaters and Producers (now known as The Broadway League) to investigate the effects of fog machine vapor on the health of actors and theatrical workers. NIOSH followed up its study with a revision (PDF) completed in 1994. In both cases, NIOSH found that, despite a high number of theater employees reporting negative respiratory, nasal, and mucous symptoms in questionnaires, there was little objective evidence that fog machine “smoke” cause more than a bit of throat and eye irritation.

The next major study (PDF) of fog machine “smoke” came in 2001 from the Department of Community and Preventative Medicine at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine and ENVIRONS, an environmental consulting firm. Like the NIOSH studies, the 2001 study was also commissioned by the AEA and the League of American Theaters and Producers. Also like the NIOSH studies, researchers found that inhaling vaporized glycols – like propylene glycol, a primary ingredient in e-cigarette juice – can cause “respiratory irritation, shortness of breath, and coughing.” Due to this, the study made a variety of detailed recommendations for how to monitor the amount of fog machine vapor in a particular space, and prescribed maximum exposure limits.

The primary question remains: If these are the short-term symptoms, what are the long-term consequences?
Perhaps the most recent study investigating the effects of fog machine vapor came in 2005. Conducted by the School of Environment and Health at the University of British Columbia and published by the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, this study focused on theater and other entertainment workers who were exposed to fog machine “smoke.” Unfortunately for the e-cigarette crowd, “acute cough and dry throat” resulted from high exposure to glycol-based vapor, and the overall lung function of those “working close to the fog source” was “significantly lower” than those not exposed to the fog.

As mentioned above, the correlation between the effects of fog machine vapor and e-cigarette vapor is far from perfect. Puffing on an e-cig is going to expose you to quite a bit more vapor than just being in a room with a fog machine running. On the flip side, fog machine smoke often uses chemicals that aren’t approved for human consumption, while e-cigarette liquid is often made of food-grade propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin.

What we can take from these studies, however, is that e-cigarettes will likely not be consequence-free. Coughing, dry throat, headaches, dizziness – all of these symptoms have been found among those exposed to high amounts of fog machine vapor, and e-cigarette users will privately report similar danger signs. (For the record, I’m one of them.) Still, fog machines haven’t been banned – a move some regulators would like to take with e-cigs.

At the end of the day, the primary question remains: If these are the short-term symptoms, what are the long-term consequences? That, unfortunately, remains to be seen, heard, or felt.


Read more: www.digitaltrends.com/opinion/broadway-can-teach-us-safety-e-cigarettes/#ixzz3lS5dBK58
Follow us: @digitaltrends on Twitter | digitaltrendsftw on Facebook

[somersault72]

Sept 11, 2015 12:00:19 GMT -5 wawa said:

My brother is another heavy smoker who replaced his cig habit with a vape habit. He smells better, he gets sick less, and he can do physically active stuff without being short of breath. So win all around for somebody who is using all available willpower to quit a wide variety of other habits and didn't have any left over for smoking.

My only quibble is that he sees nothing wrong with vaping in places he'd nevery smoke and I'm the ass hole who has to ask him not to breath vapor clouds into the pancakes I'm cooking or over my kid.

Yessssss.  Smoking is banned from restaurants, stores, etc in my area, but people are going around doing this EVERYWHERE.  Drives me bonkers.

[laladypoet]

I got this, it helped me quit smoking:
www.hoosierecig.com/V2-1100mAh-KGO-Kit-_p_10.html

I also got a couple different e-juices to try. They should have cigarette or menthol flavors, and lots of others. He may need to play with the pg/vg content of the juice depending on what he prefers. A juice with a higher vg content is better for "throat hit," for example.

[sunshine608]

My husband started with it. He bought the kits without nicotine ( or maybe it was menthol). However he kept loosing it and what really caused problems was when he traveled and could not get the replacements so he just started smoking again.

It was nice b/c there was no smell or buts and he took less smoke breaks.

[laladypoet]

My tin foil hat theory is that negative press about e-cigs is being fueled by big tobacco.

[rugbywife]

Sept 11, 2015 13:03:12 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

My tin foil hat theory is that negative press about e-cigs is being fueled by big tobacco.

This actually makes a lot of sense.

[ttt]

Sept 11, 2015 13:11:35 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Sept 11, 2015 12:05:18 GMT -5 ttt said:

 H quit once before years ago and it was absolutely horrible. He nearly ended up in the hospital twice that week with panic attacks. He definitely had a major physiological reaction to quitting. The mental aspect was hard for a couple weeks after that. 

Right now, anything that gets him to reduce the amount of smoke he's getting into his mouth and lungs is good. I had kind of given up on him ever quitting again, so even just a reduction would make me happy right now. (And if he smells better, that's a huge plus too!)

Is the anxiety a side-effect from quitting or is the smoking a coping mechanism for anxiety?  Has he ever thought about seeing a therapist for some short-term CBT?  

I think it was from quitting because after a couple of weeks it subsided. He stopped smoking for about two years and was OK during that time. Unfortunately, he started back up after some very stressful personal events. 

[ttt]

Thanks so much everyone!!

[Cicero]

Sept 11, 2015 13:03:12 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

My tin foil hat theory is that negative press about e-cigs is being fueled by big tobacco.

Most of the tobacco companies now own e-cig companies.

ETA: www.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-3642

[laladypoet]

look. nobody asked you to come in here with your knowledge and ruin my ONE tin foil hat theory!

[Cicero]

ttt Can I suggest he go with something other than Magic Mist?  I've now seen their ad on this forum half a dozen times.

[sparkythelawyer]

It is what my MIL uses when we insisted she quit smoking before the baby was born. She was able to gradually reduce her nicotine intake, which I think helped.

And while it may have unanswered questions, they at least make me feel like I don't need to worry about her second hand smoke all over her house.

[curmudgeon]

I switched to vape 2 years ago. Anecdotally, within a month I could walk up stairs without without wheezing and am sick significantly less often. Certainly it's not healthy, but it feels healthier. It's also cheaper over time. Reducing nicotine levels is very easy, my issue is I like vaping, so personally not moving very fast dropping nicotine levels.

I have had fairly good luck with Kanger products and I buy liquid online as it's cheaper than locally. Every tank I've owned has leaked, that has been the only real irritation. A vapor store should ask questions about individual smoking habits/lifestyle and will have advice for products and nicotine levels. Happy to answer any questions.

[sushi]

I think if quitting is not a realistic goal at this time this is a much better option that smoking. At least it doesn't smell as bad (it still has a noticeable and unpleasant smell to my non smoking self) and is much cleaner.

Just please implore him to only use it where he'd otherwise smoke. I had a patient try to use one in the waiting room. WTF.

[MrsAxilla]

Sept 11, 2015 12:29:08 GMT -5 @ameliapond said:

Are e-cigarettes safe or not? Research on fog machines could lift the haze
By Andrew Couts — November 5, 2013

Read more: www.digitaltrends.com/opinion/broadway-can-teach-us-safety-e-cigarettes/#ixzz3lS5lTjjj

There's a more recent study out of the UK.

Vaping is safer than smoking and could lead to the demise of the traditional cigarette, Public Health England (PHE) has said in the first official recognition that e-cigarettes are less damaging to health than smoking tobacco.

The health body concluded that, on “the best estimate so far”, e-cigarettes are about 95% less harmful than tobacco cigarettes and could one day be dispensed as a licensed medicine in an alternative to anti-smoking products such as patches. 

Full article at link.

 www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/19/public-health-england-e-cigarettes-safer-than-smoking

[Deleted]

I would go for Wellbutrin (or whatever there market it as to stop smoking) first, but at least they are way less gross than cigarettes.

[bimbi284]

I definitely see vaping as a safer alternative to smoking cigs. #harmreduction.

[hopecounts]

MIL used them to quit.
For her the physical part was what was hard and she was able to use it to slowly back off the habit.
She went cold turkey on the nicotine then slowly reduced how often she vaped until she wasn't anymore.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Just don't let him smoke them in the grocery store, OK?