Everybody in dresses: Why does gender neutral clothing alway

[auntie]

Audra Williams, Special to National Post | September 11, 2015 3:09 PM ET




When I was working as an ASL interpreter in a high school in rural Nova Scotia, the English teacher announced one day that the class was going to read The Outsiders.



The kids groaned as he handed out the battered paperbacks. Having found the book dated when I read it in my own grade ten English class years earlier, I sympathized with their reactions. But the teacher was determined to secure everyone’s enthusiasm for the plight of the Greasers.



“When S.E. Hinton wrote this book,” he informed us brightly “He was only 16 years old.”



It seemed bizarre that someone who had likely been teaching this book as long as I’d been alive would get such a major fact wrong, so I stayed after class to clarify.



“Um, I’m pretty sure S.E. Hinton is a woman?” I hated that a question had snuck into what I had meant to be a declarative statement.



“Oh I know!” he chuckled. “But the boys won’t want to read it if they know it was written by a girl.”



His perspective was clear. Girl stories were for girls. Boy stories were for everyone.



I felt like a similar thing was happening when I saw a trailer for the new clothing line Ellen Degeneres designed for Gap Kids. According to The Gap, this line is “more than just a clothing collection. It is a social movement meant to empower young girls to be their own heroes.”



As long as ‘feminine’ is treated as a synonym for ‘weak,’ girls are going to continue to be underestimated and boys are going to continue to be bullied when they step out of the gender box they’ve been put in

To be clear, I loved this video the first time I watched it. Le Tigre’s “Deceptacon” blares in the background, and adorable little girls play drums and breakdance and ride skateboards and solve math equations. It made me want to high five the entire planet. Never mind that most little girls would much prefer Katy Perry’s “Roar” to a riot grrrl anthem that came out before they were born. The ad was exactly as if someone had plucked a depiction of “empowering little girls” from the my brain.



I wasn’t the only one who felt this way. Youtube commenters (likely fellow Third Wave Feminists) celebrated the “girl power” of the video. Headlines gushed that Degeneres was “Ripping Apart Stereotypes” and “Blowing Away Gender Roles.”



But let’s just calm down for a moment, take a step back, and pull apart those claims. Is it really that revolutionary for girls to wear pants and muted colours, no matter what the soundtrack? Why does “gender neutral” have to mean “without any traditionally feminine signifiers”?



Because girl clothes are for girls. Boy clothes are for everyone.



I don’t want to downplay the merits of this clothing line, or the importance of advocating for little girls who were so stoked to take their Spiderman backpacks to school this week, only to come home in tears because “Spiderman is for boys.” Not every girl feels like herself when wearing ruffled dresses or head-to-toe pink and purple, and I’m really glad those girls have some other fun choices now. Like graphic tees with quotes like “And though she be but little, she is fierce” (from every little girl’s favourite writer, William Shakespeare).



But the same gender-role-wiggle-room is not available to their brothers. Where is Adam Lambert’s line for Gap Kids, promoted with an upbeat commercial of young boys playing with dolls and doing ballet while wearing shiny sparkly glam clothes and lipgloss while Diamond Rings serenades us all?



If The Gap did this, I think everybody would have what my late Nan would call “a complete conniption fit.” Remember when J. Crew President Jenna Lyons appeared in a picture tickling her delighted son’s toes, whose nails she had just painted pink? It sparked a week’s worth of debates that saw actual doctors calling it “a dramatic example of the way that our culture is being encouraged to abandon all trappings of gender identity.” as if anything described as a “trapping” should not obviously be abandoned immediately.



If gender neutral clothes are only made for and marketed to the parents of little girls, it is less a sign of gender equality and more an indication of the misogyny that is so ambient in our culture. There is such a devaluing of anything traditionally feminine that we’d rather chuck it out triumphantly than ever demean our boys with it.



Things weren’t always like this. In Pink and Blue: Telling the Girls From the Boys in America, historian Jo B. Paoletti reports that just over 100 years ago, boys and girls alike were put in white dresses until they were about six, because they could be easily bleached clean. Once gendered clothes became the trend, initially pink was for boys and blue was for girls, before things switched over to how they are now. But even this colour scheme wasn’t rigidly enforced until ultrasounds in the ’80s would tell parents the sex of their fetus, allowing them to prepare for the birth with “boy things” and “girl things,” as if babies care at all.



As long as “feminine” is treated as a synonym for “weak,” girls are going to continue to be underestimated and boys are going to continue to be bullied when they step out of the gender box they’ve been put in.



Let’s have a moment of appreciation for 16-year-old Jaden Smith, who Instagrammed a picture of himself in a great tunic a few months ago, with the completely sensible caption “Went To TopShop To Buy Some Girl Clothes, I Mean “Clothes”.



He’s right. They’re all just clothes.



So let’s see if someone can make some clothes for boys who like flowers, pastels, cute animals, or sparkly things, too. Because if we’re going to escape the tyranny of all-gendered-everything (special lip balm for men? are you kidding me?), we need to start with letting kids choose clothes from whatever — arbitrarily divided — section of the clothing store they want. All kids, not just the girls.



news.nationalpost.com/life/everybody-in-dresses-why-does-gender-neutral-clothing-always-mean-boy-clothes-for-girls

[wawa]

I've had this on my mind a lot with the amount of time I spend dressing a little male creature.

I never hesitated to put his sister in blue or a shirt with a tractor, but I feel dowright weird putting him in her pink handmedown jammies.

I didn't realize how deeply ingrained this was until I tried to make myself ignore it.

[penguingrrl]

This is a really interesting point. I, too, have and had no issue dressed my daughters in "boy" clothing whatsoever but often found and find myself second-guessing choices for my son. I always assumed it had to do with my being a traditionally feminine dresser, but now I wonder if it's influenced by that overarching idea that being neutral is really only okay if it leans more masculine.

[Deleted]

This is relevant for us because I have a 3.5 year old daughter and a 1 year old son. So far he loves everything she does (she is also obsessed with hot wheels and star wars so it's not all "girl" stuff). Last week she put on her princess dress and he was so happy, he was pulling on it and chasing her trying to get it, so I put a princess dress on him too! He thought it was the best!

My husband has a hard time with this stuff (he's not even super masculine....) but he's coming around. He didn't want me to post this picture on social media though (I think he's more worried about our son getting made fun of since my husband was bullied as a child) but he is starting to realize that it doesn't matter if Delaney like Star Wars and Rhys likes princesses, they're all just "kid" things

[ttt]

Dammit don't make me like something Jaden Smith did.

[gpw]

I  (heart) Sodapop and I like to wear dresses.  That is all I have to add to this thread.

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2015 12:34:02 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

I love this article.

I really hate how, for a girl/woman to be thought of as smart and strong and progressive, she must reject all things traditionally feminine and adopt a neutral appearance. I equally hate that men can't enjoy more traditionally feminine things without having their masculinity and manhood straight up questioned.

What really bothers me, though, is when I see women trying to push their girls away from liking the color pink, or feminine styles of dress, or even traditionally feminine toys and interests because they want their girls to be "smart and strong", as if liking any of those things automatically disqualifies them from being anything but a homemaker or stripper. Why not instead teach girls that they can like anything they want and still be smart and strong? Use pink tools while they build things, if they want. Wear pretty dresses with their combat boots. And both boys and girls can dig in the dirt for worms with their painted fingernails.

Makes me miss the '90's, man, when I'd paint my guy friends nails and some of them wore skirts to school and clubbing and I'd wear steel-toed boots with my pink dresses, and some of my girl friends shaved their heads and most of my guy friends had hair longer than mine, and we didn't give a damn.

Yes! This is 100% how I feel.

2 weeks ago I got a pink mani and pedi and then a few hours later I was on the soccer field amongst a bunch of guys and the only female on the field.

Just because I like make up and heels doesn't make me any less strong, confident or smart. I understand the need to not want your daughter to role model after helpless Disney princesses in their real life but enjoying pink and playing with make up doesn't doom you to be a helpless woman who relies on a man when she grows up.

[tacosforlife]

One of the many reasons Paul Westerberg is the best. 



"Androgynous"

Here comes Dick, he's wearing a skirt
Here comes Jane, y'know she's sporting a chain
Same hair, revolution
Same build, evolution
Tomorrow who's gonna fuss

And they love each other so
Androgynous
Closer than you know, love each other so
Androgynous

Don't get him wrong and don't get him mad
He might be a father, but he sure ain't a dad
And she don't need advice that's sent at her
She's happy with the way she looks
She's happy with her gender

Mirror image, see no damage
See no evil at all
Kewpie dolls and urine stalls
Will be laughed at
The way you're laughed at now

Now, something meets boy, and something meets girl
They both look the same
They're overjoyed in this world
Same hair, revolution
Unisex, evolution
Tomorrow who's gonna fuss
And tomorrow Dick is wearing pants
And tomorrow Janie's wearing a dress
Future outcasts and they don't last
And today, the people dress the way that they please
The way they tried to do in the last centuries

[Cicero]

I shop for M in the girl's section pretty regularly. Boys pants are usually cut wide and baggy and it's difficult to find leggings or slim fit pants there--and when you do for some reason it has a 50% mark up.

[greeneggs]

This is something that I've been thinking about a lot over the last year or so. The vast majority of DS's friends are girls and as they all get older I'm trying to figure out how to navigate all of this now that their toys and interests are getting to be more defined along gender roles. I know that none of his friends' mothers are putting much thought into how much their girls will enjoy his Star Wars themed birthday party but I know I do a lot of thinking about how to navigate the ever increasing volume of crafting, princess dress up, and fancy tea parties he's been invited to. I love that he gleefully piles on the jewelry and princess dresses when playing with his friends but my heart nearly broke when I heard one of the boys in his preschool class start to make fun of him for dancing around the room in a pair of fairy wings from the dress up box. He begs and cries for me to paint his toes to match mine but after all the raised eyebrows and "nice toes" comments we got this summer I'm hoping he'll grow out of it by the time sandal season comes around again next spring. I really want to be cool with all of this as he grows older but I'm finding myself steering him to more masculine looking toys or items in stores mostly because I don't want him to get teased for liking or wanting all the things his girl friends have.

[MrsAxilla]

My 2 year old looks ADORABLE in pink. It just suits her skin tone. She's starting to have strong opinions on her clothing and she seems to favor skirts and dresses. But she is also a BAD ASS. She climbs on everything. She scales playground equipment meant for teenagers. She falls down and jumps right back up without even noticing her bloody knees. She wins fights with her brother. She TOUCHES BUGS!!!

I'm pretty sure I had a point when I started this post, but I'm watching the original Footloose and I got distracted. Lol.

[IIOY]

Sept 12, 2015 12:34:02 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

What really bothers me, though, is when I see women trying to push their girls away from liking the color pink, or feminine styles of dress, or even traditionally feminine toys and interests because they want their girls to be "smart and strong", as if liking any of those things automatically disqualifies them from being anything but a homemaker or stripper. Why not instead teach girls that they can like anything they want and still be smart and strong? Use pink tools while they build things, if they want. Wear pretty dresses with their combat boots. And both boys and girls can dig in the dirt for worms with their painted fingernails.

This is why, once I was knee-deep in motherhood with both a boy and a girl, I gave up my boycott of pinkified toys.  I still have some problems with the concept, but if pink gets my girl interested in something, fine, although DD and I both agree that bright, in-your-face pink is far more fun than muted pink.

OTOH, boys totally gets screwed on clothing. It's boring and dull and it all looks the same. I am loving the current trend of super bright everything for younger kids because it is giving boys a wider variety of fun things to wear. 

All this said, yesterday I accidentally touched and smooshed a worm when lifting the lid off our compost bin, and I told H to cut the tip of my finger off because slimy worm herpes. So digging in dirt for worms is out for me. 

[Patsy Stone]

Sept 12, 2015 13:06:41 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Sept 12, 2015 12:46:43 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Yes! This is 100% how I feel.

2 weeks ago I got a pink mani and pedi and then a few hours later I was on the soccer field amongst a bunch of guys and the only female on the field.

Just because I like make up and heels doesn't make me any less strong, confident or smart. I understand the need to not want your daughter to role model after helpless Disney princesses in their real life but enjoying pink and playing with make up doesn't doom you to be a helpless woman who relies on a man when she grows up.

Agreed.  My favorite color is pink and I'll choose the pink option over just about any other color, any day.  I hate that manufacturers, as well, think that pink is a throw away color and just about every product that is made in pink is inferior in design and quality to the other colors.  Drives me batty.   

This is my tool box, which I use often.


It's actually really well made.  Both my ex FI and my dad (a former mechanic), who both know their tools, were both really impressed by it.  Now if I could find some decent quality pink tools (they are all crap), I'd be in heaven.  

I

Snap-on tools make some pink tools, they are hard to find and pretty expensive when you do.

[macmars45]

My H grew up in a very traditional family where boys & girls play with, dress and do things differently and women rarely worked outside the home. When our nephew had his fingernails painted and was wearing a skirt you'd have thought he was actually drowning kittens in my H's eyes. We've had many discussions and will continue to have them as we have our own kids. The traditional family so deeply ingrained in his upbringing but I'm slowly showing him there can be another way and it's a better alternative. While we were dating I convinced him that it's ok and normal for a woman/mom to want to work while raising a family. Baby steps.

[pescalita]

Yeah this is why I have always encouraged my boys' love of Doc McStuffins and Frozen. I'm sure at some point they will get the societal pressure and we'll deal with that, but for right now I'm annoyed that my MIL blew up all the balloons "except the pink ones" on J's bday.

[heyjude]

IVE BEEN SAYING THIS EXACT THING ON HERE FOR YEARS!!!!

THANK YOU!!!

[fumbalina]

Sept 12, 2015 14:50:27 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Sept 12, 2015 14:40:32 GMT -5 @domerjen said:

Where did you grow up???

Mo Co, Maryland, but ran around the much of the DC Metro area.  There was a pretty big underground alternative (punk/goth/metal/industrial) scene here.  

It's okay, I didn't take it that way.  


eta:  Patsy Stone, I'd love to buy Snap On, but yeah, they are way out of my price range!  lol  If I used tools professionally, I'd definitely have some though.

I grew up in Houston, Texas and saw a lot of this in the 90s as well. I am surprised it was not like that everywhere . Sinead O'Connor and Susan Powter were pretty common sights at the time.

[2doxies]

My 2 yo boy loves wearing my 5 yo DD's barettes; I think he just likes pulling his hair out of his eyes. Is there a gender neutral hair accessory we could create?

The majority of the little boy clothing out now is all dull colors and camo. My kid is a toddler, not a Navy Seal. I recently bought some things from Primary and really like them. Basics in all colors, no graphics.

[omgzombies]

Sept 12, 2015 12:19:26 GMT -5 @cookiemonster03 said:

I found myself questioning if some of our cloth diapers were too girly for our forthcoming boy recently.

It bothered me a lot. I considering myself pretty progressive blah blah but major wtf moment.

Damn society.

This happened to me too.  It was our cloth diapers that made me realize how much of bias I have against dressing boys in pink.  It makes absolutely no difference, they're just diapers after all.  In the end I got over it and put him in the pink cloth diapers we had, because it was silly not to use them.  

I'm another one who routinely bought robot and batman pajamas and shirts for DD in the boys section, but once I had a boy I no longer felt like the reverse was an option.  If Ender picks out something pink we always let him wear it and are supportive of the choice, but it's still not something I will just pick out for him, I think in large part because I know boys are still occasionally made fun of for being too feminine.  If he makes that choice for himself I'm all for it, but I don't want to push something on him that will cause him heartache later on either.

[karinothing]

I struggle with this too. If I had a girl I would buy her robot or whatever PJ s from the boy section, but I can't imagine buying my sons flower pajamas. BUT part of that is that flower pajamas aren't cool compared to robots ha.

Seriously though DS wears pink and purple, but it is bought in the boys section. He will wear necklaces or purses. BUT for the last two years he has wanted to be a candy fairy (from chasing fireflies ) for Halloween and I always steer him towards something else. Then feel guilty.

Eta: he does own a sparkly paw patrol shirt

[DarcyLongfellow]

One of my favorite friends is a woman who has a PhD in a hard science and is very involved in Ironman triathlons (both areas pretty male-dominated). I just adore her because she kicks ass both at work and in her hobby/sport, and she does it all while being super vocal about her love for all things purple and sparkly.

My mom tried raised me to not wear skirts or be super girly because she didn't want me to buy into the idea that I was limited by traditional gender roles. I really hope I can raise my daughters to enjoy girly stuff AND be incredibly successful in whatever field they choose.

If I ever see a little boy with painted nails, wearing pink or purple, or wearing a princess dress, I try to make sure to make a positive comment to him and/or his parent. I feel like he probably gets a lot of negative comments. If he can have just one stranger tell him he's rocking that dress, hopefully he'll remember it.

[nsuhomer]

I only deal with the girl stuff because I have 3 DDs. They are each a fantastic mix of whatever tickles their fancy. It helps that my family and my in laws are similar.

Our social circle is progressive this way, and there is almost always at least one boy in a dress or skirt. My oldest went to a preschool that was very aligned with our views in this way. Two of the kids were a set of boy/girl twins. Their parents had very strict gender lines. They wouldn't let the boy play with any 'girl' toys/dress up stuff (it was a co-op). They brought separate diapers for each kid. Princess and Cars, hers and his. It was bizarre.

[LadySusan]

Sept 12, 2015 17:53:06 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

Sept 12, 2015 12:19:26 GMT -5 @cookiemonster03 said:

I found myself questioning if some of our cloth diapers were too girly for our forthcoming boy recently.

It bothered me a lot. I considering myself pretty progressive blah blah but major wtf moment.

Damn society.

This happened to me too.  It was our cloth diapers that made me realize how much of bias I have against dressing boys in pink.  It makes absolutely no difference, they're just diapers after all.  In the end I got over it and put him in the pink cloth diapers we had, because it was silly not to use them.  

I'm another one who routinely bought robot and batman pajamas and shirts for DD in the boys section, but once I had a boy I no longer felt like the reverse was an option.  If Ender picks out something pink we always let him wear it and are supportive of the choice, but it's still not something I will just pick out for him, I think in large part because I know boys are still occasionally made fun of for being too feminine.  If he makes that choice for himself I'm all for it, but I don't want to push something on him that will cause him heartache later on either.

I'm happy about the other moms of sons that are commenting about this.  I know logically in my head that it is GOOD for boys to wear pink but I still felt relief and then guilt when the shoe store had sold out of the chosen pink hiking shoes so we had to get grey.  WTF me?!

Also, I wonder if the world was more open about gender roles 30 years ago?  BRB with examples.

[LadySusan]

Maybe I am talking out my ass here, but I feel like there was more mainstream genderbending stuff 30 - 40 years ago.

This is from a modern interview with the LEGO ad girl:

"In 1981, LEGOs were simple and gender-neutral, and the creativity of the child produced the message," Giordano told her. " In 2014, it’s the reverse: the toy delivers a message to the child, and this message is weirdly about gender.”  Specifically, Giordano was talking about set from the new LEGO Friends line that was made specifically for girls -- a very pink news van marketed with this description: "Break the big story of the world’s best cake with the Heartlake News Van!"




The incomparable Mr. Bowie:

“You must understand that it's not a woman's -- it's a man's dress."





And finally, the Swedish hairband, Europe has the most glamorous lead singer.  Men who wax off every bit of visible body hair and wear blush and lip gloss and are still manly?  No biggie:



So 30 - 40 years ago, girls could act like boys and boys could acts like girls.  But what happened?  It is still okay for girls to act like boys.  I feel like it is even expected to some extent in tech and science.  But boys sampling girl-gendered* things?  I know that some emo musicians wear nail polish sometimes, but that seems less progressive than what these mainstream musicians were doing 30 - 40 years ago.

* No, I'm pretty sure that girl-gendered isn't a word either.  Deal with it.  I also wish that there was a way to describe gender that was not onset-of-puberty specific.  Girl and woman vs female.

[meshaliuknits]

BoyLiu had totally worn his sister's hand me downs. Some of them pink. I give no fucks, everyone thinks he's a girl anyway. It bothers H though, so I keep it to stuff he wears around the house. I think it's lame, but the man cooks my dinner, so I roll with it.

Also, I try to push BabyLiu away from pink (and red). They are not good colors on her. It's the red hair & pinkish complexion. I don't care for pink myself (or red, for that matter) but she's a different person, she's allowed her opinion.

For the most part, I try to let them like what they like. Unless it's objectively terrible. Like calliou.

[heyjude]

"In 1981, LEGOs were simple and gender-neutral,"

No. No they weren't. Isn't that the point of the article? The "gender neutral" Legos were blue, red, yellow, green. That's as gender nuetral as if they were all pink, aqua, purple, and fuchsia.

What's wrong with pink Legos anyway? What's wrong with a pink Lego news van? What's wrong with pink?

My DD is incredibly girly. Tutus, princesses, ballet, bows, etc. This is how she identifies. It hasn't stopped her from obsessing over Star Wars lately.

We are flat out obsessed with the trappings of girls. It's frankly annoying.

[cville]

Sept 12, 2015 22:44:03 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

BoyLiu had totally worn his sister's hand me downs. Some of them pink. I give no fucks, everyone thinks he's a girl anyway. It bothers H though, so I keep it to stuff he wears around the house. I think it's lame, but the man cooks my dinner, so I roll with it.

Also, I try to push BabyLiu away from pink (and red). They are not good colors on her. It's the red hair & pinkish complexion. I don't care for pink myself (or red, for that matter) but she's a different person, she's allowed her opinion.

For the most part, I try to let them like what they like. Unless it's objectively terrible. Like calliou.

Caillou is a nightmare and is banned from my home.


Boys at my high school wore skirts and kilts. Not a ton of them, but a few. Everyone was in plaid and flannel and black of some kind and we were all wearing the same shoes. Ha. I can't imagine that now because everyone in my working world is so conservative in attire. Or maybe because it was 20 years ago?

Anyway, this is all so hard. I hope having a father who cooks and bakes and wears pink and a mother who likes heels and woodworking and sports helps my kids a little through osmosis.


Eta: not that I/we have it all figured out. Ha.

[cville]

STORY TIME. I brought banana bread that my husband baked into work to share. One woman asked me how I got it to be so moist (twss) and I told her I had no idea, my husband made it. Her reply: "I've always said I didn't need a husband, but a wife."

I just stared at her then joked that I'm pretty sure he's a man, but I'll double check. Wtf. He's not my WIFE because he BAKES.

[heyjude]

I'm not actually sure if girls really can straddle both masculine and femine worlds. Girly girls are not celebrated. Girls who like boyish things are though. There's a reason why "too girly" is a thing,

[meshaliuknits]

Sept 12, 2015 22:56:23 GMT -5 cville said:

Sept 12, 2015 22:44:03 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

BoyLiu had totally worn his sister's hand me downs. Some of them pink. I give no fucks, everyone thinks he's a girl anyway. It bothers H though, so I keep it to stuff he wears around the house. I think it's lame, but the man cooks my dinner, so I roll with it.

Also, I try to push BabyLiu away from pink (and red). They are not good colors on her. It's the red hair & pinkish complexion. I don't care for pink myself (or red, for that matter) but she's a different person, she's allowed her opinion.

For the most part, I try to let them like what they like. Unless it's objectively terrible. Like calliou.

Caillou is a nightmare and is banned from my home.


Boys at my high school wore skirts and kilts. Not a ton of them, but a few. Everyone was in plaid and flannel and black of some kind and we were all wearing the same shoes. Ha. I can't imagine that now because everyone in my working world is so conservative in attire. Or maybe because it was 20 years ago?

Anyway, this is all so hard. I hope having a father who cooks and bakes and wears pink and a mother who likes heels and woodworking and sports helps my kids a little through osmosis.


Eta: not that I/we have it all figured out. Ha.

My HS BF regularly wore skirts. And flannel.

The 90s, yo.