#ShoutYourAbortion and Amanda Duarte

[AJL]

The two things don't have anything to do with each other but they're both been trending in my FB feed so I thought I'd bring them up for discussion.

First, #shoutyourabortion - this has a FB page and is being posted a lot on Twitter (both by those supporting and opposing the hashtag and subsequent posts about abortion.) The idea that women who had have abortions should not be ashamed of having had an abortion and they should feel comfortable talking openly about those abortions. I'm firmly in the "YES" camp on that idea.

Second, Amanda Duarte - she made this post on FB a few days ago and I think it is very succinct, honest, and true. Again, I agree with her. 

Amanda Durate:
"I don't care if Planned Parenthood provides nothing BUT abortion services. I don't care if it's a million-story abortion superpark with abortion waterslides and an abortion electrical parade. Abortion is legal. ABORTION IS LEGAL. If I read one more "defense" of Planned Parenthood that says "it's not JUST abortions!" or "only 5% of what they do is abortion! And abortions aren't federally funded!" I'm going to abort myself. Abortion is legal, culturally necessary, and good for humanity. It has been and will be practiced for millennia. It is essential. It is a fact. By minimizing, denying or apologizing for this fact, you are allowing these venal anti-woman Nazis to frame this debate and continue to chip away at this essential right. Abortion is not tragic. It is not painful. It is a fact. It is a right. Demand it, fight for it, and for the sake of the women who have given their lives to defend it, stop apologizing for it."

Discuss.

[chedifuen]

Timely for me! I was just debating PP on Facebook and I specifically talked about how they provide legal and safe abortions, which is a vital service. Sure, women may be able to get other health services elsewhere but PP must exist to keep abortion safe.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I think shouting "abortion is legal!!!" is going to change exactly zero minds. That's exactly the problem in a lot of people's minds.

[tacosforlife]

I have mixed feelings on Duarte's POV. On the one hand, I agree. My opinion is that abortion is not shameful and that anyone who wants an abortion should be able to get one without judgment.

OTOH, I am a pragmatist. There are people who are morally uncomfortable with abortion but still think it should be legal. And in the fight against extremists, I want all the help we can get. So I don't want to alienate potential political allies in the name of principle, only to end up with worse outcomes.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I totally agree with Duarte's POV. But there's a lot of people that don't. And a lot of people that believe that PP is an abortion multiplex and its all they do. And a bunch of people that legit do not know about the Hyde Amendment. If you're opposed to abortion and think that it's all PP does and believe your tax dollars fund those abortions, you need to be told the facts because those facts at least have the chance of changing a mind.

[ESF]

Sept 22, 2015 12:02:25 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I totally agree with Duarte's POV. But there's a lot of people that don't. And a lot of people that believe that PP is an abortion multiplex and its all they do. And a bunch of people that legit do not know about the Hyde Amendment. If you're opposed to abortion and think that it's all PP does and believe your tax dollars fund those abortions, you need to be told the facts because those facts at least have the chance of changing a mind.

Yes.

When I hear "but PP does more than just abortions," I don't hear someone trying to brush off the importance of abortions or trying to make them be shameful. Instead, I hear someone explaining to the morons that by choosing to shut down the government over defunding PP, they are choosing to deny millions of poor women a variety of much needed health services.

[tacosforlife]

Sept 22, 2015 12:14:23 GMT -5 ESF said:

Sept 22, 2015 12:02:25 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I totally agree with Duarte's POV. But there's a lot of people that don't. And a lot of people that believe that PP is an abortion multiplex and its all they do. And a bunch of people that legit do not know about the Hyde Amendment. If you're opposed to abortion and think that it's all PP does and believe your tax dollars fund those abortions, you need to be told the facts because those facts at least have the chance of changing a mind.

Yes.

When I hear "but PP does more than just abortions," I don't hear someone trying to brush off the importance of abortions or trying to make them be shameful. Instead, I hear someone explaining to the morons that by choosing to shut down the government over defunding PP, they are choosing to deny millions of poor women a variety of much needed health services.

The law school classmate I stay Facebook friends with just to have some quality hate-reading material has stated that the MAJORITY of PP's clients receive abortions. Except that, you know, three of the 22 PP locations in my state offer abortion services. So he's just flat-out lying, and he needs to be called on that. I am not trying to shame those who get abortions if I correct his lies.

[msmerymac]

Sept 22, 2015 11:45:05 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I think shouting "abortion is legal!!!" is going to change exactly zero minds. That's exactly the problem in a lot of people's minds.

I often point out not that it's legal, but that it is guaranteed by the constitutional right to privacy. See also: placing an undue burden on fundamental rights. I'm looking at you, Texas. 

[StrawberryBlondie]

Sept 22, 2015 12:14:23 GMT -5 ESF said:

Sept 22, 2015 12:02:25 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I totally agree with Duarte's POV. But there's a lot of people that don't. And a lot of people that believe that PP is an abortion multiplex and its all they do. And a bunch of people that legit do not know about the Hyde Amendment. If you're opposed to abortion and think that it's all PP does and believe your tax dollars fund those abortions, you need to be told the facts because those facts at least have the chance of changing a mind.

Yes.

When I hear "but PP does more than just abortions," I don't hear someone trying to brush off the importance of abortions or trying to make them be shameful. Instead, I hear someone explaining to the morons that by choosing to shut down the government over defunding PP, they are choosing to deny millions of poor women a variety of much needed health services.

I hate to admit this, but I usually have the best luck explaining to people *coughmencough* who support defunding PP because of abortions that PP provides healthcare to men, too.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Sept 22, 2015 12:23:57 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Sept 22, 2015 11:45:05 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I think shouting "abortion is legal!!!" is going to change exactly zero minds. That's exactly the problem in a lot of people's minds.

I often point out not that it's legal, but that it is guaranteed by the constitutional right to privacy. See also: placing an undue burden on fundamental rights. I'm looking at you, Texas. 

I stay away from rights entirely when speaking with people who believe that abortion should be illegal.

Especially since there's usually a lot of overlap between those and the people who believe there is no constitutional right to privacy.

[emilyj]

Because of the Hyde Amendment, PP does abortions, but does not receive federal funds for it. So that leads me to assume the abortions are funded through donations/self-pay. Am I correct on that?

If so...then defunding PP isn't going to stop abortions. Because they'll still be funded through non-federal sources.

Why is this SO HARD for people to understand?

[Deleted]

I like the idea of "shout your abortion" to remove stigma. I think it's too bad that we can't talk about something that 1 in 3 women will experience. I hate that it's taboo.

But I'm not sure this is the best context to do that in. People who are against abortion are generally - against abortion. Making it sound like there are millions of women out there who proudly received abortions is probably only going to horrify the pro-life side, not convince them that their tax dollars should actually support an organization that supports abortion. I just don't know that saying "it happens more than you realize!" is going to provide any comfort to those who don't want abortions to happen at all.

I feel like emphasizing the fact that 97% of PP's services are not related to abortion AND the fact that tax dollars actually are not used on abortions is probably more effective. I wish there was a catchier way of saying that.

[emilyj]

Sept 22, 2015 12:48:31 GMT -5 toledo said:

Sept 22, 2015 12:41:14 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Because of the Hyde Amendment, PP does abortions, but does not receive federal funds for it. So that leads me to assume the abortions are funded through donations/self-pay. Am I correct on that?

If so...then defunding PP isn't going to stop abortions. Because they'll still be funded through non-federal sources.

Why is this SO HARD for people to understand?

PP won't stay open solely to perform abortions. It won't be able to afford to.

Right.  I get that, I was trying to make the point that the defunding isn't going to (theoretically) stop what the anti-abortion protesters want. 

[nursewife]

Is the only avenue to get an abortion in the US through Planned Parenthood?

[StrawberryBlondie]

Sept 22, 2015 13:41:01 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Is the only avenue to get an abortion in the US through Planned Parenthood?

Actually? No. Practically? Usually yes.

[nursewife]

Sept 22, 2015 13:45:03 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Sept 22, 2015 13:41:01 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Is the only avenue to get an abortion in the US through Planned Parenthood?

Actually? No. Practically? Usually yes.

Reading about how awful women have it in the US is just awful. From my experience it's pretty easy to get a referral or go through the health unit's sexual health clinic. I'd still love to volunteer for a clinic that does provide abortions here. I know it wouldn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things in Canada, but damn it's such an important service. 

Btw, I think it's hard for Canadians to have it done. My dentist shared her twin experience with me. Her twin pregnancy was threatening her life and she had a referral to the US to have it done. She decided not to and accepted the risks. The doctor she was referred to was shot a few weeks later. She's been horrified about it all since Canadians really don't see a lot of the abortion hate (besides picketers) here. I'd love reading more about why there are so many more extremists in the US than Canada. 

[StrawberryBlondie]

Sept 22, 2015 13:55:07 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Sept 22, 2015 13:45:03 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Actually? No. Practically? Usually yes.

Reading about how awful women have it in the US is just awful. From my experience it's pretty easy to get a referral or go through the health unit's sexual health clinic. I'd still love to volunteer for a clinic that does provide abortions here. I know it wouldn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things in Canada, but damn it's such an important service. 

Btw, I think it's hard for Canadians to have it done. My dentist shared her twin experience with me. Her twin pregnancy was threatening her life and she had a referral to the US to have it done. She decided not to and accepted the risks. The doctor she was referred to was shot a few weeks later. She's been horrified about it all since Canadians really don't see a lot of the abortion hate (besides picketers) here. I'd love reading more about why there are so many more extremists in the US than Canada. 

I'm pretty sure my ob does at least the medical ones. I've never asked, but I got that feeling. But to put it into a little perspective for you: I live in MN. We're a pretty liberal stare and our abortion laws aren't terrible. Basically every clinic that does abortions here is in the twin cities. We're almost 87k square miles. If you're from northern MN, its probably closer to go to Manitoba or Ontario to get one.

[nursewife]

Sept 22, 2015 14:00:08 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Sept 22, 2015 13:55:07 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Reading about how awful women have it in the US is just awful. From my experience it's pretty easy to get a referral or go through the health unit's sexual health clinic. I'd still love to volunteer for a clinic that does provide abortions here. I know it wouldn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things in Canada, but damn it's such an important service. 

Btw, I think it's hard for Canadians to have it done. My dentist shared her twin experience with me. Her twin pregnancy was threatening her life and she had a referral to the US to have it done. She decided not to and accepted the risks. The doctor she was referred to was shot a few weeks later. She's been horrified about it all since Canadians really don't see a lot of the abortion hate (besides picketers) here. I'd love reading more about why there are so many more extremists in the US than Canada. 

I'm pretty sure my ob does at least the medical ones. I've never asked, but I got that feeling. But to put it into a little perspective for you: I live in MN. We're a pretty liberal stare and our abortion laws aren't terrible. Basically every clinic that does abortions here is in the twin cities. We're almost 87k square miles. If you're from northern MN, its probably closer to go to Manitoba or Ontario to get one.

We are from Ontario, which was why I was surprised about her going to the US. Obviously I didn't want to push and ask questions. They chose to continue the pregnancy (everything thankfully turned out well), but I can't imagine not having that choice. While working I also set up appointments with a few teens needing an abortion. I can't imagine if those girls were in an area with no resources. Their lives would have been shattered if she couldn't have. It was all ready such a traumatic experience, especially since she also ended up with an std. I just can't fathom not having that choice available in her shoes. I still think of those patients when I read these threads. I'd love to volunteer or work in abortion services. I love women's health, if I worked in that field, I'd love to be doing my part to fight for women. 

[Deleted]

This seems like a good thread to throw this in. I read this over the weekend and thought it was fantastic.

Are you Really Pro-Life?
medium.com/@tracischmidley/are-you-really-pro-life-ab5c5acbb293

[Deleted]

Sept 22, 2015 14:35:43 GMT -5 TR said:

Sept 22, 2015 14:22:08 GMT -5 @ruralrabbit1 said:

This seems like a good thread to throw this in. I read this over the weekend and thought it was fantastic.

Are you Really Pro-Life?
medium.com/@tracischmidley/are-you-really-pro-life-ab5c5acbb293

Ehhhhhh...I'm having trouble putting my finger on what I just don't like about that article. Something about how offering to take food, babysit, or offering adoption as an option doesn't make-up for forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. None of that makes me want to get on board with the pro-life stance.

I agree with you there, I'm very pro-choice.  No woman should have to carry an unwanted pregnancy for any reason.  But, I did think this article had some very valid questions, how can you be pro-life but not support the child once they are born?

[msmerymac]

Sept 22, 2015 15:25:18 GMT -5 TR said:

Sept 22, 2015 15:14:16 GMT -5 @ruralrabbit1 said:

I agree with you there, I'm very pro-choice.  No woman should have to carry an unwanted pregnancy for any reason.  But, I did think this article had some very valid questions, how can you be pro-life but not support the child once they are born?

I read a really fantastic article by a woman who was very pro-life, but then realized that the pro-life contingent was not actually trying to prevent abortions and she had all kinds of facts and numbers about things like birth control access, etc. I wish I could remember ANYTHING else about it to find it.

I'm guessing it was Libby Anne? She's a great blogger. 


www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html