Toddler tantrums and discipline, ASD/speech delay ppl?

[dcrunnergirl52]

Does she have tantrums like this at preschool?

It sounds like a lot of normal toddler stuff mixed with the speech delay. DD and DS1 were not tantrum throwers at all--like I could count on one hand how many tantrums they had combined. DS2, on the other hand, literally spent all yesterday morning from 6am-8am and 5pm-7pm screaming, crying, and throwing himself onto the floor or getting into trouble. Just normal toddler bullshit. OTOH, he was and always is a complete angel at school.

All this to say that I completely sympathize. Even with a language delay, I'd probably do some type of timeout or give her a safe space alone to work out her emotions. It gives you both a break.

::big hugs::

ETA: When DS1 was found to have a receptive delay (evaluated to be at like a 6-9 month age when he was 18 months old), our SLP gave us some tips and tricks to get his attention, like specific clicking noises or other things to draw him out of what he was doing. It really did help. Do you have an SLP that you could ask for advice? You may be able to find some other tips online.

[hopecounts]

First don't bother using words once any kid is in that zone more then 7 words becomes random noise.
For us putting her in a safe space and stepping back worked best.
She had to deal and calm herself the more I tried the worse she would get.
Walking away helped her get it together quickest.
For us she was rarely a melt downer but had tantrums that were on the hard end of normalish.
Also redirecting before she got to that point was helpful.
I got pretty good at catching the early signs and would intercede while she was able to be redirected/calmed.

[lilac05]

I need to put my kids to bed, but could go on forever. The easiest thing I can give you a tip on is "selective hearing/following directions." It's so hard to know when they don't understand vs when they're choosing not to follow directions. I'm frequently able to tell by the child's facial expressions and/or body language. Pay close attention and you may notice a pattern, too.

To make it easier for her, give commands in very short phrases. Instead of "C, please go find your shoes so we can put them on and go to the park", try to just say, "shoes on." And keep using the same words instead of saying the same thing different ways.

[dcrunnergirl52]

Sept 23, 2015 19:11:30 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I need to put my kids to bed, but could go on forever. The easiest thing I can give you a tip on is "selective hearing/following directions." It's so hard to know when they don't understand vs when they're choosing not to follow directions. I'm frequently able to tell by the child's facial expressions and/or body language. Pay close attention and you may notice a pattern, too.

To make it easier for her, give commands in very short phrases. Instead of "C, please go find your shoes so we can put them on and go to the park", try to just say, "shoes on." And keep using the same words instead of saying the same thing different ways.

Yes, this is what our SLP had us do too. Short commands, just a noun and verb. She also had us come up with some gestural cues to match with an action. For us, we pointed to our hand and said, "give it to me." We did that repeatedly, until he understood the gestural command, even if he wasn't quite sure of the words/didn't understand us b/c of his receptive delay.

[lilac05]

jenny1980, the turning around of the high chair works miracles at our house with DS2! He instantly stops & drops his head in shame. Sad, but effective.

swizz, the goldfish incident sounds like typical toddler shenanigans. The not listening in good times as well as not-so-good is likely related to the language delay. Once a kid is in a full tantrum, they don't listen to anything more than a few words, delay or not.

As far as what to do about tantrums, unfortunately there's no magic answer. It depends so much on the child and the situation. You will figure out what works for you & it won't be the same every time. Your therapist should be able to help some once they get started.

[arch01]

I'm teaching a little boy with autism right now and one of his therapists gets in with me because he has become extremely defiant, which is obviously dangerous in the water. I'll echo what was said above-take out filler words. She's taught me his key phrases-especially "first X, then Y" where he still feels like he can get to do what he wants, but I get what I need him to do. It gets repeated until it's done.

The biggest thing is to make sure everyone is doing the same thing-all caregivers, you, DH...once you find phrases or things that help, share them so others can use them too. I think this is a good tool for those even without any developmental delays/issues, consistency across the board is a huge help.

[karinothing]

DS1 is not on the spectrum but when he is so upset and time outs aren't working, we focus on talking deep breaths. He didn't really get it at first so I would get Duan to his level and do deep breaths and ask him to match his breath to mine. It calms him down pretty quickly. Not sure if it would work, but worth a shot?

[lilac05]

Sept 23, 2015 19:25:43 GMT -5 swizz said:

Sept 23, 2015 19:08:19 GMT -5 dcrunnergirl52 said:

They don't seem overly concerned because they are short and I suspect with other kids around there just isn't the same focus on her frustrations/tantrums.

They may also not be overly concerned because all of this, to a degree, is typical for toddlers.  They're used to it, so it's easier to tune out when necessary.

And simplifying your language is so hard, especially when you read all about not baby talking and expanding language skills!  Keep it up...it gets easier.  The next thing you know, you'll be telling your H "first eat, then TV" or something else equally simplified!

[auntie]

Sept 23, 2015 18:32:34 GMT -5 swizz said:

I'm feeling really frustrated by the tantrums and selective hearing/following directions. I'm not sure what is speech delay frustration and/or possible ASD, and what is normal toddler behavior.


I'm sorry. It's a tough age. Random thoughts below.

It's really hard to parse out what's ASD and what being a toddler at this age. 

Sometimes selective hearing is a function of shutting down from excess verbiage as others have suggested. Receptive language is very emergent in this age group- simple is better, a multisensory approach is best. Try as much as you can to proactively state desired behavior is positive ways- save "no" and "don't" for emergencies.

Some kids with ASD spend a good amount of time in their own heads- either thinking bout a special interest, replaying something pleasurable in their minds or dealing with anxiety. Normally this is more of an issue around 4, but in retrospect DS played in his head at 2.

I know we've discussed toddler discipline before, but is there advice for mild ASD and/or speech delayed kids that is different?

Try as much as you can to state things positively. Tell her the behavior you want to see and give her warning around transitions.


I don't want to be overly harsh but I feel like some stuff she knooows but doesn't listen.


One thing I notice with my own DS is that skills and behaviors remain emergent for much longer than I expect. While he's working on something I find that he may be able to comply or demonstrate it one day and then it's gone tomorrow. He might "know" it in an academic sense but not be able to access it or make the right choice "in the moment". It's frustrating, but over time he's capable more often than not and eventually it becomes something on which we can count.

Of course, sometimes he gets stuck. As a younger kid, he couldn't always be easily redirected to something different than what he expected or wanted. This chronic inflexibility was tough. Visual prompts and warnings usually help. 

The other piece is that kids with ASD are generally lousy at reading mom's mood. If a situation escalates to a point where you have had enough, she won't necessarily pick up on that. It used to make me crazy that I'd be livid at DS and the other feral members of the car pool and the other kids would be the ones to tell him "dude, your mom's really mad, we need to knock it off". 


Also, tantrums are in the 20-25x daily range. Everything elicits a tantrum, usually short lived, but I feel lost at how to handle them, comfort? Ignore? Validate her feelings (at least half the time I have no idea what they're about)?

That sounds tough. Some of this is likely garden variety toddler protestations over being a powerless little kid who isn't getting her way. 

Have you ever journaled them? Sometimes jotting down the particulars of what was going on can help you identify triggers and a way to help her cope. Do they happen when she's hungry or thirsty? Tired? At the end of the day when she's on sensory overload? Around specific activities? 

It's really hard to say. Generally, mid-tantrum it's best to let it flame out. Since they're short lived, I don't know that I'd "comfort" since that could be a dysfunctional bid for attention. Can you get in with a behaviorist ahead of her evaluation? 

I know preschool does TOs but I've never done them bc I honestly don't think she has any idea what that means.


Maybe, maybe not. One thing that helps me keep my sanity is to constantly remind myself to consider DS's behavior in the context of his social and emotional age. She might not "get" TO now, but she might soon. Most kids on spectrum function with the social and emotional maturity of someone about 1/2 their chronological age regardless of IQ. In a lot of respects, her skills around listening and making sense of her world are going to be more like a young one than a new two.

"Doing the math" helps me keep my expectations for DS realistic and also helps me rethink discipline (which means "to teach") appropriate to where he is developmentally. He may be a college senior, but I have to remind myself that inside he's really more like a 16/17 year old in terms of emotional regulation.


Last night I put her to bed early (more for me than her) after she tossed my full soda on the floor then stomped the goldfish I asked her to pick up.

Gah. 

I'm just not sure what to do...