Who has listened to Serial?

[jojoandleo]

I KNOW I AM LIKE YEARS BEHIND, OKAY! I am on episode 10. Ugh. I have no idea if the kid did it, but I can say the prosecution did not prove he did it beyond a reasonable doubt. My only issue is if he didn't do it, who did? It had to have been Jay or someone related to Jay IF it wasn't A. Because why would he admit his involvement otherwise? Or was there a reason he wanted A in jail? It doesn't seem like it. If A didn't do it, Jay must be involved and A was the easy one to blame it on. A Muslim ex-boyfriend. I absolutely think prejudice played a part in the guilty verdict.

There is so much fucked up in this case. The timeline just makes no sense. Jay is lying. Period. But why about the timeline? To provide the person who did it with an alibi for that time? Is Jay's story the only proof of this timeline? Was there evidence from the remains it was within that time? Because people have said they saw her alive when she was supposedly already dead. Where they all just high and therefore Jay's memory is fuzzy?

I'm not sold the kid is innocent, but I am sold that the prosecution did not prove he did beyond a reasonable doubt. And the fact the prosecution found Jay his attorney and Jay got no jail time? The fuck!

[brookles]

It's been awhile since I've listened so I'm fuzzy on details, but I think both Jay and Adnan were involved somehow. Both of their stories seem sketchy sketch.

[jojoandleo]

Sept 29, 2015 9:57:53 GMT -5 brookles said:

It's been awhile since I've listened so I'm fuzzy on details, but I think both Jay and Adnan were involved somehow. Both of their stories seem sketchy sketch.

I feel like Adnan's story has stayed the same more than Jay's has. But, I can also see Adnan being a very charismatic person who can manipulate. Jay's timeline just does not work. So, I feel he has to be lying, but WHY? Why lie and implicate himself? UNLESS he had a bigger role or to protect someone he loves? I don't know. Adnan could be guilty and they were high, so Jay's timeline may be of because he was fucked up. I wonder if Jen or Stephanie may have been involved and that is why Jay's story is weird?

I haven't heard anything that makes me think Adnan is absolutely innocent, but I also haven't heard anything to make me think he is absolutely guilty. Even if he is guilty, his conviction was BS. This is the problem with juries and legal jargon. They don't really understand what is "beyond a reasonable doubt."

[brookles]

Sept 29, 2015 10:13:40 GMT -5 jojoandleo said:

Sept 29, 2015 9:57:53 GMT -5 brookles said:

It's been awhile since I've listened so I'm fuzzy on details, but I think both Jay and Adnan were involved somehow. Both of their stories seem sketchy sketch.

I feel like Adnan's story has stayed the same more than Jay's has. But, I can also see Adnan being a very charismatic person who can manipulate. Jay's timeline just does not work. So, I feel he has to be lying, but WHY? Why lie and implicate himself? UNLESS he had a bigger role or to protect someone he loves? I don't know. Adnan could be guilty and they were high, so Jay's timeline may be of because he was fucked up. I wonder if Jen or Stephanie may have been involved and that is why Jay's story is weird?

I haven't heard anything that makes me think Adnan is absolutely innocent, but I also haven't heard anything to make me think he is absolutely guilty. Even if he is guilty, his conviction was BS. This is the problem with juries and legal jargon. They don't really understand what is "beyond a reasonable doubt."

I also wondered if there was something going on with Adnan and Stephanie, and Jay got jealous and pissed about it and then *something* happened. Or Adnan and Jay and Hae were hanging out in the woods somewhere, and one of those two dudes killed her, and now it's both of their words against the other's.

[jojoandleo]

I feel really bad for Hae's family, though, having to relive this. After the conviction, they probably felt they could move on and NOW it's all dragged up again. However, I feel the justice system did not do what it was supposed to in this case.

[brookles]

Yeah, and Hae really does get lost in the whole thing. Like, they did an episode about her, but after that she seems more like a nameless victim. When I was crafting my reply to you I had to look up her name to remind myself of it, and of course Adnan and Jay's names were top of mind.

[Patsy Stone]

This was so frustrating to listen to. They never tested the fiber found next to her body?? I am now listening to Undisclosed, and I know they are biased, but they really rip the case apart. I don't know if A is guilty, but I can't believe he was convicted based on the case presented.

[jojoandleo]

Sept 29, 2015 12:52:35 GMT -5 Patsy Stone said:

This was so frustrating to listen to. They never tested the fiber found next to her body?? I am now listening to Undisclosed, and I know they are biased, but they really rip the case apart. I don't know if A is guilty, but I can't believe he was convicted based on the case presented.

This was my thing, I can't say he is innocent, but I can say he should not have been convicted based on the evidence. What's undisclosed? I may need to listen to that next.

[1confused1]

jojoandleo Undisclosed is another podcast narrated by Rabia Choudry (family friend of the Syed's, the one who got Sara Koenig onto the case) and two other attorneys/bloggers. It is very much on the side of Adnan and brings up interesting points.

Finish Serial first before you start Undisclosed.

[just]

And when you're done, check out the Intercept interviews with Jay and Urick.


theintercept.com/2015/01/14/exclusive-serial-prosecutor-defends-guilty-verdict-adnan-syed-case-part-ii/

theintercept.com/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

[jojoandleo]

just-I 100% do not trust the prosecutor. The prosecutor helped secure an attorney for Jay which is SO WRONG. My jaw DROPPED at that.

[jwright]

I'm also listening to Undisclosed and - wow what a clusterf*ck. There are so many holes. And so many mistakes/oversights by Adnan's attorney. I just listened to the latest one from Monday at lunch and am so mad at Gutierrez.

I don't want to spoil but I think Jen had A LOT more to do with it than what she said to the police.

I ended Serial thinking Adnan was involved but now my theory is that it was Jay and a whole different crew.

[brooke77]

I agree. I do not think that the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Adnan killed Hai. However, I believe Jay on the basic facts of the story - Adnan killed Hai and Jay helped bury the body. The timeline that he and the police eventually come up with doesn't make sense because it's not the actual timeline. It's the timeline that they come up with the match the cellphone tower pings - which were inaccurate.

[jojoandleo]

Sept 30, 2015 12:21:52 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

I agree. I do not think that the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Adnan killed Hai. However, I believe Jay on the basic facts of the story - Adnan killed Hai and Jay helped bury the body. The timeline that he and the police eventually come up with doesn't make sense because it's not the actual timeline. It's the timeline that they come up with the match the cellphone tower pings - which were inaccurate.

So the lies are for evidence? I could see that, but I don't think that evidence was still enough to convict.

I'm a tree hugging liberal hippy, though, and have difficulty believing Adnan did it and is continuing to deny it. I mean, he isn't pointing fingers and saying Jay did it.  He very well me a psychopath, but those are far more rare than Law and Order makes you think. LOL. I don't know. The Innocence Project taking it on is interesting to me. 

[brooke77]

Sept 30, 2015 14:23:26 GMT -5 jojoandleo said:

Sept 30, 2015 12:21:52 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

I agree. I do not think that the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Adnan killed Hai. However, I believe Jay on the basic facts of the story - Adnan killed Hai and Jay helped bury the body. The timeline that he and the police eventually come up with doesn't make sense because it's not the actual timeline. It's the timeline that they come up with the match the cellphone tower pings - which were inaccurate.

So the lies are for evidence? I could see that, but I don't think that evidence was still enough to convict.

I'm a tree hugging liberal hippy, though, and have difficulty believing Adnan did it and is continuing to deny it. I mean, he isn't pointing fingers and saying Jay did it.  He very well me a psychopath, but those are far more rare than Law and Order makes you think. LOL. I don't know. The Innocence Project taking it on is interesting to me. 

Yes.  None of his/the state's timeline makes sense.  It also contradicts Jay's previous story.  Why would Jay lie?  Because the police needed evidence to prove Adnan killed Jay and it came in the form of really shady cellphone tower pings.  They went around with their own "expert" and created a timeline.  They then had Jay corroborate the timeline. 

Now, why would Jay corroborate the timeline?  Because he was a young, black, drugdealer in Baltimore.  The police did a lot of interviews with Jay offline.  Then hooked him up with a lawyer and no charges...

I do believe Jay because, well, Sarah believed Jay.  I don't believe Adnan, because, well, I think it's more likely than not that he killed Hai.

I DO NOT think that the state proved Adnan killed Hai.  I don't think he's innocent.

[jojoandleo]

Sept 30, 2015 14:59:21 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

Sept 30, 2015 14:23:26 GMT -5 jojoandleo said:

So the lies are for evidence? I could see that, but I don't think that evidence was still enough to convict.

I'm a tree hugging liberal hippy, though, and have difficulty believing Adnan did it and is continuing to deny it. I mean, he isn't pointing fingers and saying Jay did it.  He very well me a psychopath, but those are far more rare than Law and Order makes you think. LOL. I don't know. The Innocence Project taking it on is interesting to me. 

Yes.  None of his/the state's timeline makes sense.  It also contradicts Jay's previous story.  Why would Jay lie?  Because the police needed evidence to prove Adnan killed Jay and it came in the form of really shady cellphone tower pings.  They went around with their own "expert" and created a timeline.  They then had Jay corroborate the timeline. 

Now, why would Jay corroborate the timeline?  Because he was a young, black, drugdealer in Baltimore.  The police did a lot of interviews with Jay offline.  Then hooked him up with a lawyer and no charges...

I do believe Jay because, well, Sarah believed Jay.  I don't believe Adnan, because, well, I think it's more likely than not that he killed Hai.

I DO NOT think that the state proved Adnan killed Hai.  I don't think he's innocent.

Sarah Kroenig?  When did she say that?

[brooke77]

Did you get to the part where she tracked down and visited Jay? She couldn't tape but talked about her impressions.

[jojoandleo]

Oct 1, 2015 8:58:10 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

Did you get to the part where she tracked down and visited Jay? She couldn't tape but talked about her impressions.

Yeah, but she later finds evidence of his lying. AND he has changed his story AGAIN, and now says he saw the body at his grandmother's, not Best Buy. I don't know.  I think Jay had a bigger role than he is saying.  I don't think that means Adnan is innocent, but I'm not ready to say Adnan is guilty.  Not to the level I would say OJ Simpson is guilty and that guy got off.   

[brooke77]

Oh no doubt Jay is lying and lied on the stand. I think he got a pretty sweet deal from the prosecution/police for his lies. HE HELPED BURY A BODY. I think he was forced into lying (again, young, black, drugdealer in Baltimore) to help "prove" the case against Adnan. None of his timeline makes sense because it's not how it happened. But ultimately, I do believe what Jay said in that Adnan came to him with a body in the trunk... If Adnan didn't kill Hai, who did?

What role do you think Jay had?

I was so sad when I got to the end of Serial =(

[jojoandleo]

brooke77-Have you listened to the Jay interviews? He basically bashes Sarah, Serial, Adnan, and everyone. He claims Sarah "demonized" him, which I didn't see at all. She hit Adnan harder than any other person. It actually made me dislike him more. LOL. BUT, then if Adnan is a psychopath, it makes more sense. Adnan didn't rail against anyone, not even Jay. He did say he wonders WHY Jay would do it to him, but doesn't even seem angry. Jay seemed angry over a PODCAST. He's not the one in jail. But maybe it's a more human reaction to be angry than calm? I don't know. I'll be listening to the next season, though. New crime!

[jojoandleo]

Oct 1, 2015 9:12:27 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

Oh no doubt Jay is lying and lied on the stand. I think he got a pretty sweet deal from the prosecution/police for his lies. HE HELPED BURY A BODY. I think he was forced into lying (again, young, black, drugdealer in Baltimore) to help "prove" the case against Adnan. None of his timeline makes sense because it's not how it happened. But ultimately, I do believe what Jay said in that Adnan came to him with a body in the trunk... If Adnan didn't kill Hai, who did?

What role do you think Jay had?

I was so sad when I got to the end of Serial =(

I don't know. I think he may have been there when it happened. I don't think he did it, because why would he? I do wonder if Jennifer had more of a role in it because her and Jay's stories don't match up. Plus, the cops came to her first. And SHE helped Jay cover up his role (taking him to ditch his clothes, etc.) But, I don't know enough about Jennifer and Hae's dynamic to know if/why she would be involved. I don't buy the ending-some serial killer may have done it, because then why would Jay point to Adnan? Unless there was some crazy issue where Jay WAS jealous of Adnan and Stephanie? But that would be so fucking bizarre. So, in the end, I don't know. But I'm not comfortable saying Adnan is guilty just because I don't know who else could have done it, ya know?

[brooke77]

Oct 1, 2015 9:16:23 GMT -5 jojoandleo said:

brooke77-Have you listened to the Jay interviews? He basically bashes Sarah, Serial, Adnan, and everyone. He claims Sarah "demonized" him, which I didn't see at all. She hit Adnan harder than any other person. It actually made me dislike him more. LOL. BUT, then if Adnan is a psychopath, it makes more sense. Adnan didn't rail against anyone, not even Jay. He did say he wonders WHY Jay would do it to him, but doesn't even seem angry. Jay seemed angry over a PODCAST. He's not the one in jail. But maybe it's a more human reaction to be angry than calm? I don't know. I'll be listening to the next season, though. New crime!

No!  I should. I listened to most of Undisclosed, but it's not as well done as Serial.

And I agree completely that none of it makes sense and I don't think Adnan should have been convicted on the evidence presented.  This all must be really hard for Hai's family.