Help 2yr old takes hrs to fall asleep(unhappily) every night

[kitty]

My 21 month old cannot relax at night and I have no idea what else to try.  At the same age, my DD was still nursing which helped her wind down but DS self-weaned about a month ago.  Bath time does not seem to relax him (he splashes around like a maniac).  He loves books but gets agitated because he wants to read another one no matter how many we've already read.  I try rocking him while singing lullabies and he squirms around like a jumping bean.  I try rubbing his back or holding his hand in the crib but he doesn't even want to lie down.  I've tried prolonging the book/singing stage to give him more time to relax (last night was 3 books and 4 songs) but he still didn't fall asleep until 8:45 (bath was at 6:45, in pjs at 7).  He is definitely tired by 7 because he will yawn and rub his eyes.  We've tried moving things 15-30 minutes earlier and that didn't seem to help.  I tried a little massage last night before putting on his pajamas and it did not shorten the time to sleep.  He may be starting 2 yr old molars but I cannot feel anything through the gums yet.  Last night I tried Advil just in case and it did not change his timeline.

If he isn't at all relaxed, he flips out when I try to leave the room.  He eventually will calm down enough for me to leave.  At that point, I know conventional wisdom is to leave him to his own devices to babble in his crib until he falls asleep but the problem is that he will do that happily for an hour or hour and a half but then he starts to freak out and cry.  I am strongly opposed to CIO so when he gets past the point of whining, I have to go in there and soothe him.  This will usually work and he'll fall asleep but I worry that I'm setting up this pattern where he will stay awake for an hour and a half waiting for me to come back.  I've tried going in there more frequently and trying positive reinforcement for staying quiet, laying down, etc but this typically freaks him out and he doesn't want me to leave again.

With DD I was able to do a gradual fade, where I stayed next to the crib while she fell asleep (like 15-20 min), then once she mastered that I moved to a chair on the other side of the room, then left the room, etc.  I had been hoping to do something similar with DS but even if I stay in the room holding his hand next to his crib the entire time, it still takes him an hour and a half to fall asleep.  Then I still need to do dishes and chores so that time ends up coming out of my sleep.

In his crib, we've tried soft blankets, pillows, lovies, dolls, teething toys and nothing seems to help him stay happier in there alone.  I tried that light up seahorse and he freaked the f out.  I'm not sure what other toys I could put in there to try to keep him happier while he unwinds because I don't want enough light on for him to look at books or anything like that.

[Deleted]

I would try:
Loud white noise
Total darkness
Re-evaluating your aversion to CIO (a nearly 2 year old has little in common with a months-old baby, and frankly, this kid IS playing you)

[lolo]

Maybe in order to relax, he needs you to leave. Some babies and kids need time to themselves too.

When you go in the second time, does he settle right away? If it's a quick check, I'd koko.

[Deleted]

My DD doesnt settle herself. For us going in doesnt help. She just will think its playtime. We CIO. Every night. And have done so for 2 years. Im not saying this to tell you to do that but I feel like DD just doesnt turn off. It will be good to hear what others say.

[boiler717]

Have you tried that "Rabbit Who Wants to Fall Asleep" book? I have no idea if it works but have heard it really helps kids settle down to sleep -- almost like a meditation. It may be worth a try if he likes books, apparently it is fairly long.

[oswin]

What time does he get up in the morning? It does kind of sound like you're missing the ideal sleepy window at 7. On the other hand, the problem may be that he is sleepy but not physically tired, which is why he jumps around (my DD does some of this too). We take DD to the park every night from 6-7, then do bedtime and she's down by 7:45 (though she often doesn't fall asleep right away).

Other things to consider: he is absolutely manipulating you to get what he wants, HE is the one in charge of bedtime if you give in when he whines for a bit. That's got nothing to do with CIO, you're letting him walk all over you, and you're not doing him or yourself any favors by letting it continue. Why don't you want him to have enough light to look at books? DD doesn't do this as much anymore, but she used to spend 20 minutes winding down by "reading" by her door (door is open, baby gate, she doesn't sleep in a crib). I do also highly recommend that you read Dr. Ferber's book Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems. It's useful for addressing sleep problems in kids of all ages, and although it does describe the progressive waiting approach (a form of CIO), it also talks about many reasons why kids have trouble sleeping and different ways to address different problems.

[thebreakfastclub]

Converting to the toddler bed is what worked for us. DS went from having zero sleep issues to throwing up in his crib and screaming for an hour.

The toddler bed brought it all back to normal right away.

[jeaniebueller]

What is his nap schedule?

[Deleted]

I rocked/nursed all 3 of my kids to sleep until around 13/14 months. At that point they no longer fell asleep nursing and didn't want to be rocked. They would squirm and twist and arch to get down. So they needed to fall asleep in their cribs. We are generally anti CIO too.

With J we did a gradual fade just as you described doing with your daughter. It worked wonderfully.

With the girls, that was a no go. It only pissed them off more. Then they were overtired and a vicious cycle started. We wpul soend from 730 to 11 or lster every night trying to get them asleep. After several weeks of trying sleep lady shuffle, gradual fade etc. We tried CIO. And it had to be extinction. I wont lie, the first night was horrible. The next night was also rough. But then, they started sleeping. Fell asleep easily and peacefully and slept 11 hrs.

We also gave them lovies at that point and it did help. We would tell them to lie down and hug their lovies.

Sometimes what works for one kid just doesn't work for another. I definitely understand your not wanting to do CIO, we felt the same. But I also think crying at 21 mos is different than crying at 6 or 8 months. No matter what you do, I'd come up with a firm plan and stick to it. He knows you are there for him and you are doing a lot to help him feel safe and relaxed. He might just need the push to get the rest of the way on his own.

Another thought, could he be one of those kids like @starry has that needs a later bedtime? Maybe that's why he is awake and then crying for you?

[nikki25]

This sounds so stupid but it worked like charm with my DD when she was that age.

I would put her to bed and after staying for a couple of minutes i would tell her I needed to do something downstairs really quick and will be back in 10 minutes. I would wait 15-20 minutes, go upstairs and she was always asleep.

Eventually she grew out of it but it comforted her that i would be back, calming her enough to fall asleep.

[nikki25]

Also, melatonin, lol. My doctor recommended it. I would crush up 2mg pill in her milk and let it do its thing. Love that stuff☺

[kitty]

Oct 1, 2015 11:45:16 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

What is his nap schedule?

He naps for 1.5-2 hours, midday.  Every once in a while he will only take a 1 hour nap on the weekends but this does not seem to correlate to him falling asleep faster.

[stretchad]

DS does not go down easily when I do it, but he goes down like a champ w/ DH. Can you try having DH do bedtime routine?

[kitty]

Oct 1, 2015 11:11:09 GMT -5 oswin said:

What time does he get up in the morning? It does kind of sound like you're missing the ideal sleepy window at 7. On the other hand, the problem may be that he is sleepy but not physically tired, which is why he jumps around (my DD does some of this too). We take DD to the park every night from 6-7, then do bedtime and she's down by 7:45 (though she often doesn't fall asleep right away).

Other things to consider: he is absolutely manipulating you to get what he wants, HE is the one in charge of bedtime if you give in when he whines for a bit. That's got nothing to do with CIO, you're letting him walk all over you, and you're not doing him or yourself any favors by letting it continue. Why don't you want him to have enough light to look at books? DD doesn't do this as much anymore, but she used to spend 20 minutes winding down by "reading" by her door (door is open, baby gate, she doesn't sleep in a crib). I do also highly recommend that you read Dr. Ferber's book Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems. It's useful for addressing sleep problems in kids of all ages, and although it does describe the progressive waiting approach (a form of CIO), it also talks about many reasons why kids have trouble sleeping and different ways to address different problems.

He usually wakes up around 6:30.

I do wish he had more time to play in the evenings but I have a long commute so I am limited as to how early I can get dinner on the table.

As for the light, I worry about it disrupting his circadian rhythm.  DH is very sensitive to light at night and has to wear amber colored glasses when using his ipad at night or he will not sleep well.

I don't go in if he is just whining or if he cries a bit but the monitor shows him laying down in a relaxed position.  I go in if he is standing up and full on flipping out and crying.  He doesn't get to this stage every night but he does more often than not.

He STTN without a peep unless he is sick so he doesn't need me there to fall asleep.

[kitty]

Oct 1, 2015 12:39:44 GMT -5 stretchad said:

DS does not go down easily when I do it, but he goes down like a champ w/ DH. Can you try having DH do bedtime routine?

We tried this for a few weeks and he definitely is a bit better - less crying when DH tries to leave the room and a higher chance of falling asleep without freaking out.  But it isn't magical - he still takes the same amount of time to fall asleep and about half the time (this is a lower % then when I put him down) he still freaks out around 8:30 or 9.

[kitty]

Oct 1, 2015 11:54:52 GMT -5 @awinter said:

Another thought, could he be one of those kids like @starry has that needs a later bedtime? Maybe that's why he is awake and then crying for you?

We tried this for a few nights and it didn't seem to help much.  Random 5 am wakeups also seemed to increase with a later bedtime.

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2015 12:48:12 GMT -5 kitty said:

Oct 1, 2015 11:54:52 GMT -5 @awinter said:

Another thought, could he be one of those kids like @starry has that needs a later bedtime? Maybe that's why he is awake and then crying for you?

We tried this for a few nights and it didn't seem to help much.  Random 5 am wakeups also seemed to increase with a later bedtime.

Ah yeah, if it lead to early wakeups then that's probably a not it.

[kitty]

Oct 1, 2015 11:27:26 GMT -5 JRo said:

Things that have helped us:

1) An absolutely consistent bedtime routine. It probably wasn't until DS was your DS's age that we finally got a completely consistent routine that didn't vary at all. We don't do bath every night, so that isn't part of the bedtime routine for us.

2) Talking through all the transitions out loud. "Now we are going to read 3 books. Go pick out your first book." "Okay, 2 books left, go pick out the 2nd book." "Okay, this is your last book. After this book, we are going to turn the lights off and snuggle for a couple minutes." "Okay, we are done with books now, help me turn off the light so we can snuggle." "Okay, we are going to snuggle for 2 minutes, then it is time to go in your crib." "One more minute of snuggling, then it is time to go in your crib." Etc...you get the idea.

This is definitely something I will work on tonight.  I'm also toying with the idea of limiting it to 1 book and 1 song just to simplify the routine (this is what we do with DD who is 4).

[kitty]

Oct 1, 2015 10:43:32 GMT -5 lolo said:

Maybe in order to relax, he needs you to leave. Some babies and kids need time to themselves too.

When you go in the second time, does he settle right away? If it's a quick check, I'd koko.

I'd say about 80% of the time he does but the other 20% it can get ugly.

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2015 12:23:20 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

This sounds so stupid but it worked like charm with my DD when she was that age.

I would put her to bed and after staying for a couple of minutes i would tell her I needed to do something downstairs really quick and will be back in 10 minutes. I would wait 15-20 minutes, go upstairs and she was always asleep.

Eventually she grew out of it but it comforted her that i would be back, calming her enough to fall asleep.

Haha. This reminds me of a time when J was randomly having trouble going to sleep about a year ago. H would go in and after a few mins tell him he had to go check on the girls. When he went back in J was asleep. The first few times H really did need to check on the girls but once we figured out it worked we definitely used it.

[nikki25]

Oct 1, 2015 12:58:06 GMT -5 @awinter said:

Oct 1, 2015 12:23:20 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

This sounds so stupid but it worked like charm with my DD when she was that age.

I would put her to bed and after staying for a couple of minutes i would tell her I needed to do something downstairs really quick and will be back in 10 minutes. I would wait 15-20 minutes, go upstairs and she was always asleep.

Eventually she grew out of it but it comforted her that i would be back, calming her enough to fall asleep.

Haha. This reminds me of a time when J was randomly having trouble going to sleep about a year ago. H would go in and after a few mins tell him he had to go check on the girls. When he went back in J was asleep. The first few times H really did need to check on the girls but once we figured out it worked we definitely used it.

Ha! It is the stupidest thing but it works. I have 0 guilt  

Now my twins are a different story. Sigh.

[oswin]

Oct 1, 2015 12:41:40 GMT -5 kitty said:

Oct 1, 2015 11:11:09 GMT -5 oswin said:

What time does he get up in the morning? It does kind of sound like you're missing the ideal sleepy window at 7. On the other hand, the problem may be that he is sleepy but not physically tired, which is why he jumps around (my DD does some of this too). We take DD to the park every night from 6-7, then do bedtime and she's down by 7:45 (though she often doesn't fall asleep right away).

Other things to consider: he is absolutely manipulating you to get what he wants, HE is the one in charge of bedtime if you give in when he whines for a bit. That's got nothing to do with CIO, you're letting him walk all over you, and you're not doing him or yourself any favors by letting it continue. Why don't you want him to have enough light to look at books? DD doesn't do this as much anymore, but she used to spend 20 minutes winding down by "reading" by her door (door is open, baby gate, she doesn't sleep in a crib). I do also highly recommend that you read Dr. Ferber's book Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems. It's useful for addressing sleep problems in kids of all ages, and although it does describe the progressive waiting approach (a form of CIO), it also talks about many reasons why kids have trouble sleeping and different ways to address different problems.

He usually wakes up around 6:30.

I do wish he had more time to play in the evenings but I have a long commute so I am limited as to how early I can get dinner on the table.

As for the light, I worry about it disrupting his circadian rhythm.  DH is very sensitive to light at night and has to wear amber colored glasses when using his ipad at night or he will not sleep well.

I don't go in if he is just whining or if he cries a bit but the monitor shows him laying down in a relaxed position.  I go in if he is standing up and full on flipping out and crying.  He doesn't get to this stage every night but he does more often than not.

He STTN without a peep unless he is sick so he doesn't need me there to fall asleep.

I wouldn't worry quite so much about the light in the evening, at least to give it a try. Light from phone, tablet, computer, and even TV screens tends to be bluish and does disrupt sleep (we found that we sleep better having instituted a no-tablet/phone in bed rule and I only read at MOTN wakups I don't use a screen anymore). What we do that seems to work well for DD is that we turn off her room and hallway lights when we put her down, but usually the living room and/or kitchen lights stay on for a bit before we turn everything off when we go to bed. So she doesn't have light all night, but she gets some light at bedtime.

IIRC, the Ferber book has some good sections on boundary-setting and anxiety/fears, so it may be able to help you troubleshoot. If it's more of an anxiety thing, I think the book recommends some variation on what pps have suggested, telling your kid you'll be back to check on them in x amount of time (and then spacing it out until eventually you don't have to actually check on them). Anyway, good luck.

[CloudBee]

How long has this been happening? DS seems to take longer to fall asleep whenever he's in the midst of a language explosion. (But he's not upset.)

[kitty]

Oct 1, 2015 13:41:20 GMT -5 CloudBee said:

How long has this been happening? DS seems to take longer to fall asleep whenever he's in the midst of a language explosion. (But he's not upset.)

Probably since early to mid July or so?  That was exactly what I chalked it up to initially but language explosion has come and gone...he probably has 150 words by now.

[CloudBee]

Oct 1, 2015 13:46:02 GMT -5 kitty said:

Oct 1, 2015 13:41:20 GMT -5 CloudBee said:

How long has this been happening? DS seems to take longer to fall asleep whenever he's in the midst of a language explosion. (But he's not upset.)

Probably since early to mid July or so?  That was exactly what I chalked it up to initially but language explosion has come and gone...he probably has 150 words by now.

Yeah, probably unrelated, then. Sorry.

[kitty]

Oct 1, 2015 13:39:52 GMT -5 oswin said:

Oct 1, 2015 12:41:40 GMT -5 kitty said:

IIRC, the Ferber book has some good sections on boundary-setting and anxiety/fears, so it may be able to help you troubleshoot. If it's more of an anxiety thing, I think the book recommends some variation on what pps have suggested, telling your kid you'll be back to check on them in x amount of time (and then spacing it out until eventually you don't have to actually check on them). Anyway, good luck.

I just put a hold on this at my library.  I tend to lean more AP but I will keep an open mind.

[lolo]

Oct 1, 2015 13:58:18 GMT -5 kitty said:

Oct 1, 2015 13:39:52 GMT -5 oswin said:

IIRC, the Ferber book has some good sections on boundary-setting and anxiety/fears, so it may be able to help you troubleshoot. If it's more of an anxiety thing, I think the book recommends some variation on what pps have suggested, telling your kid you'll be back to check on them in x amount of time (and then spacing it out until eventually you don't have to actually check on them). Anyway, good luck.

I just put a hold on this at my library.  I tend to lean more AP but I will keep an open mind.

The anxiety chapter does not use CIO and is very useful. Signed, also AP leaning mom