Visual processing disorder

[schmidt]

Super infrequent poster here, but I was wondering if any of you have dealt with visual processing disorder. I've had some concerns about my son's fine motor skills so we did an eval with an OT. Beyond some standard finger weakness, they think he has this. He's 4 btw.

Anyone else dealing with this?

[heygrey]

Marmee

eta: damn it. I can't tag her correcty. Give it a few and she'll roll in with a wealth of knowledge  

Got it!

[schmidt]

Thank you! Looking forward to being schooled

[imojoebunny]

My DD and I have visual processing disorder. We are not stupid. I have an MBA from a great school that I went to for free (could have gone to a top 20 school, but not for free). I preface things with that because people tend to think that LD = not successful or capable. My DD's auditory comprehension is 99.9% . I have not been tested, but my life would indicate, I am similar.

In her first three years of school, my DD was a mess. She was by far the lowest scoring child on reading in her class, including kids who came from very disadvantaged backgrounds, with parents who were addicted to drugs. In Pre-K they told us to hold her back, in kinder, she made progress, but had a teacher who had previously been a specialist in reading, and knew what to do. In first grade, she had a teacher who tried very hard, she got teacher of the year. Ultimately, 3 years of Orton-Guilingham tutoring was DD's ticket to success. It rewires the brain to be able to read in different ways. She has learned to spell much better, but it will likely always be tough (bless spell checks heart). She is slow with her writing, but not with her thought (dragon diction is free and easy).

The biggest thing to me, is not having her penalized for her slowness with reading and writing in class. We put her in a private school, with similar sized classed, but two teachers, so if she missed something, she had extra support. It has been amazing. She is a different child, happy confident, enjoys reading, math, and writing, and scoring, outside of spelling and punctuation, in the 85-90% on the Iowa nationaly standardized test. This is her 3d year. Public school here could not have failed her more, even with great teachers. It is a Sensory processing disorder, not recognized as a learning disability (here at least). DD was diagnosed with ADHD in 1st grade, which she doesn't have, but I think it was her teachers attempt to get help with her (she looked institutionalized in a 1st grade class, including rocking back and forth). Please PM me if you have any other questions. It is hard to explain, even to educators, sorry you are dealing with it. The disconnect can be huge between some skills and others, and it makes people uneasy.

[Marmee]

I actually have no experience with that exactly. My DD1 has Dyslexia & Dysgraphia. She had therapy (speech) & OG tutoring as well as accommodations in her (private) school (solo desk, not being marked off for spelling outside of spelling tests, allowing tutors to come tutor her in the classroom during lunch, etc). Her writing was worked on with tutors but we never needed to do so far as OT with her (I have with another child of mine who has low tone). Her writing is messy, her spelling is poor but she's very successful in school. Good luck! Just make sure your DC gets the help he needs & it'll be fine.

[schmidt]

imojoebunny thank you for sharing! I certainly don't think he's stupid, he has the best imagination! I do worry how he'll be treated though. He's in his second year of preschool (I stay at home, so just run of the mill morning preschool), and his teachers already get frustrated with him I'm hoping that is noticing the issue sooner rather than later will be helpful!

We may already hold him back and do pre-k rather than kinder next year (I know, big bone of contention on this board). It was never something I dreamed of doing, and I'm usually not for it, But, he is young for our system and immature. I do worry he'll get lost in the public school system, but we live in northern Virginia with a good school system. Decent private schools here are $$$, and not really in our budget at the moment. So, we'll just take it as it comes. Sorry for the word vomit, I've got so many things running through my head!

And thanks to @louisamay also, the issues can go together so still helpful!

[iammalcolmx]

How do you know their parents were on drugs? What does that have to do with a child's reading ability?

[oliviapope]

Oct 13, 2015 6:10:26 GMT -5 schmidt said:

imojoebunny thank you for sharing! I certainly don't think he's stupid, he has the best imagination! I do worry how he'll be treated though. He's in his second year of preschool (I stay at home, so just run of the mill morning preschool), and his teachers already get frustrated with him I'm hoping that is noticing the issue sooner rather than later will be helpful!

We may already hold him back and do pre-k rather than kinder next year (I know, big bone of contention on this board). It was never something I dreamed of doing, and I'm usually not for it, But, he is young for our system and immature. I do worry he'll get lost in the public school system, but we live in northern Virginia with a good school system. Decent private schools here are $$$, and not really in our budget at the moment. So, we'll just take it as it comes. Sorry for the word vomit, I've got so many things running through my head!

And thanks to @louisamay also, the issues can go together so still helpful!

My oldest had issues with visual processing (and pretty much all sensory stuff). Our OT was incredibly successful in working with a method that went back and worked to "rewire" his brain. It wasn't one mentioned here, but it focuses on the entire body, his ability to figure out left vs right, his ability to find himself in space, etc.

Long story short she took him 2.5 grade levels in reading in 2 months. He had been stuck where he was for at least a year. The brain is an amazing thing. If he has other behavioral issues an OT might be very helpful for him.

[schmidt]

oliviapope that is amazing to hear! Our insurance covers 90 ot visits a year so we're doing whatever they recommend. We're hoping that realizing this info as a new 4 will help in his learning to read!

[oliviapope]

Oct 13, 2015 7:29:20 GMT -5 schmidt said:

oliviapope that is amazing to hear! Our insurance covers 90 ot visits a year so we're doing whatever they recommend. We're hoping that realizing this info as a new 4 will help in his learning to read!

I would also put him in gymnastics or karate or even swim team. All of these movements help neurons cross the midline and can really help. He needs to crawl properly (4 point). I bought a crawl tunnel and have my 1,4, and 7 year olds crawl around for some time in the AM and PM. Karate has been really helpful as well for this. If you are interested in more info on specific stuff to his behavior feel free to PM.

[imojoebunny]

Oct 13, 2015 7:00:05 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

How do you know their parents were on drugs? What does that have to do with a child's reading ability?

I knew the moms, the kids, and the grandmothers.  My DD was friends with them.  They came to our house, we went to their homes.  I helped the grandmothers out with school supplies and other needs, volunteered in the class.  Not having the advantage of preschool and a stable, nurturing environment impacts kids ability to read, especially in the early grades.  This is the foundation on which head start was founded, and why the US spends $8B a year on it. These kids did not get the benefit of these funds, they got nothing much at all.  

My DD and OP child both do have the benefit of preschool, which should make school easier for them, than for a child who got nothing.  All I was trying to point out was that Visual Processing disorder creates a huge disconnect between what a child should know and be able to do, and what they actually can do, without extra, specialized help, that many public school systems will not provide.  Other things, can cause this disconnect, such as not having any school readiness can can cause this disconnect, too.   

Sorry my phrasing offends you.  What offends me is the bull these kids have to live with.  

[Deleted]

Oct 13, 2015 6:22:45 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Oct 12, 2015 20:58:15 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

My DD and I have visual processing disorder. We are not stupid. I have an MBA from a great school that I went to for free (could have gone to a top 20 school, but not for free). I preface things with that because people tend to think that LD = not successful or capable. My DD's auditory comprehension is 99.9% . I have not been tested, but my life would indicate, I am similar.

In her first three years of school, my DD was a mess. She was by far the lowest scoring child on reading in her class, including kids who came from very disadvantaged backgrounds, with parents who were addicted to drugs. In Pre-K they told us to hold her back, in kinder, she made progress, but had a teacher who had previously been a specialist in reading, and knew what to do. In first grade, she had a teacher who tried very hard, she got teacher of the year. Ultimately, 3 years of Orton-Guilingham tutoring was DD's ticket to success. It rewires the brain to be able to read in different ways. She has learned to spell much better, but it will likely always be tough (bless spell checks heart). She is slow with her writing, but not with her thought (dragon diction is free and easy).

The biggest thing to me, is not having her penalized for her slowness with reading and writing in class. We put her in a private school, with similar sized classed, but two teachers, so if she missed something, she had extra support. It has been amazing. She is a different child, happy confident, enjoys reading, math, and writing, and scoring, outside of spelling and punctuation, in the 85-90% on the Iowa nationaly standardized test. This is her 3d year. Public school here could not have failed her more, even with great teachers. It is a Sensory processing disorder, not recognized as a learning disability (here at least). DD was diagnosed with ADHD in 1st grade, which she doesn't have, but I think it was her teachers attempt to get help with her (she looked institutionalized in a 1st grade class, including rocking back and forth). Please PM me if you have any other questions. It is hard to explain, even to educators, sorry you are dealing with it. The disconnect can be huge between some skills and others, and it makes people uneasy.

This is bull.  Why does it matter that she performed lower than kids from disadvantaged backgrounds?  You would just assume that kids that have less are going to be lower than your kid that has more resources?   

If I had to guess, and I'm not defending, it's because STATISTICALLY speaking, these students are less literate coming in to school because their parents don't read to them while they're growing up or don't speak to them with as many words, and that has a huge impact in the early school years and impacts other things like language development. There's a lot of research on it. They're straight up less likely to have books in their home. 

Some citations: 
Hart, B. Risley, T. Meaningful Differences in the Everyday Experiences of Young American Children (1995), Paul H. Brookes Publishing Co.

Kim JS, Quinn DM. The Effects of Summer Reading on Low-Income Children’s Literacy Achievement From Kindergarten to Grade 8: A Meta-Analysis of Classroom and Home Interventions. Review of Educational Research [Internet]. 2013;83(3):386-431.

Effects of Two Shared-Reading Interventions on Emergent Literacy Skills of At-Risk Preschoolers - CHRISTOPHER J. LONIGAN



That said, it's still an assumption, and we know what happens when you assume. 

[Deleted]

Oct 13, 2015 7:50:50 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Oct 13, 2015 7:38:24 GMT -5 @sessalee said:

If I had to guess, and I'm not defending, it's because STATISTICALLY speaking, these students are less literate coming in to school because their parents don't read to them while they're growing up or don't speak to them with as many words, and that has a huge impact in the early school years and impacts other things like language development. There's a lot of research on it. They're straight up less likely to have books in their home. 

Some citations: 
Hart, B. Risley, T. Meaningful Differences in the Everyday Experiences of Young American Children (1995), Paul H. Brookes Publishing Co.

Kim JS, Quinn DM. The Effects of Summer Reading on Low-Income Children’s Literacy Achievement From Kindergarten to Grade 8: A Meta-Analysis of Classroom and Home Interventions. Review of Educational Research [Internet]. 2013;83(3):386-431.

Effects of Two Shared-Reading Interventions on Emergent Literacy Skills of At-Risk Preschoolers - CHRISTOPHER J. LONIGAN



That said, it's still an assumption, and we know what happens when you assume. 

**It's not comparing apples to apples. You can't compare someone with a disorder to someone who doesn't and add the qualifier that these kids came from little means.    It reads like this " my kid who has everything was doing worse than poor kids". "Where they came from and what they have doesn't really matter when you are talking about disability vs not having a disability.  

Right but what she was saying was that her daughter tested low, then was diagnosed. Or at least that's how I read it (but my reading comprehension sucks, as I have a learning disorder myself). That's how they knew something was up. I completely agree that it's apples and oranges.

[imojoebunny]

Oct 13, 2015 7:29:20 GMT -5 schmidt said:

oliviapope that is amazing to hear! Our insurance covers 90 ot visits a year so we're doing whatever they recommend. We're hoping that realizing this info as a new 4 will help in his learning to read!

I second the OT and cross body activities.  We did OT at 3, 4, and 5 for handwriting, which wasn't really writing at all, it was more to improve coordination to be able to write.  We have also done circus class (tons of crossing the midline), ice skating (Balance and coordination), horse back riding (torso strengthening and posture), and a fitness class that emphasizes the crossing of the midline.  We also did vision therapy, which didn't work for us, but has for others I know.  DD does not like to go fast, so any group sport she hates, same with things like riding a bike and running, so to get her moving, classes help.  They did not make a significant impact on her academic abilities, like O-G tutoring did, but they make it easier for her to move, and know where she is in space, which improves her social functioning, and ability to sit in in a classroom.  

We did not hold DD back because she would not have been helped by it, she was in other ways ready for school, could behave, and was/is highly motivated, had that been different, we might have .  In her case it would have just added another year of frustration with her abilities.  She could not start Orton Guilingham until she was in first grade, since she needed the foundations and the practice of what she learned from her tutor, and only being in 1st grade would provide that.  The phycologist would not evaluate her until then for the school to consider services either, until 1st grade.  

The problems that we cannot treat well are spelling (not spelling test, she can remember short term, but spelling in fluid writing), speed of writing, and some weird things with memorization, that impact foreign language and math.  She can remember that 4X4 is 16 because a 4x4 is a car and she get a to drive when she is 16, but memorizing random numbers, like a phone number is very difficult.  She also has trouble with Spanish, especially written, which makes sense because of the spelling.  

[rugbywife]

Oct 13, 2015 7:57:56 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Oct 13, 2015 7:53:54 GMT -5 @sessalee said:

Right but what she was saying was that her daughter tested low, then was diagnosed. Or at least that's how I read it (but my reading comprehension sucks, as I have a learning disorder myself). That's how they knew something was up. I completely agree that it's apples and oranges.

Even still, why note that the less advantaged kids were doing better?  As though that can't happen?  It isn't really all that unbelievable that poor kids can do better than rich ones.

No, rich kids DESERVE to do better. Bootstraps!!

[Deleted]

Oct 13, 2015 8:06:34 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

Oct 13, 2015 7:57:56 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Even still, why note that the less advantaged kids were doing better?  As though that can't happen?  It isn't really all that unbelievable that poor kids can do better than rich ones.

No, rich kids DESERVE to do better. Bootstraps!!

And poor kids don't have bootstraps! 

[Deleted]

Oct 13, 2015 8:11:29 GMT -5 @fivedogs said:

Oct 13, 2015 8:06:34 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

No, rich kids DESERVE to do better. Bootstraps!!

(heart) (heart) (heart)

@barefootbarista - given the source of the comment, I'm not surprised, but I'm glad you called it out.

I should stop giving people the benefit of the doubt, shouldn't I? 

[oliviapope]

Oct 13, 2015 8:00:58 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

Oct 13, 2015 7:29:20 GMT -5 schmidt said:

oliviapope that is amazing to hear!  

The problems that we cannot treat well are spelling (not spelling test, she can remember short term, but spelling in fluid writing), speed of writing, and some weird things with memorization, that impact foreign language and math.  She can remember that 4X4 is 16 because a 4x4 is a car and she get a to drive when she is 16, but memorizing random numbers, like a phone number is very difficult.  She also has trouble with Spanish, especially written, which makes sense because of the spelling.  

Has your OT worked with her grasp and how her hands/fingers open and close, and/or activities that work with her ATNR reflex? We found incredible success with these specific movements. Apparently the neurons connected to grasp mylienate the neuro pathways that are related to the brain/hand connection for things like spelling, math, etc.
Also, working with movements related to the ATNR made a huge difference in memory and focus.

[Deleted]

Oct 13, 2015 11:38:08 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Oct 13, 2015 8:17:54 GMT -5 @sessalee said:

I should stop giving people the benefit of the doubt, shouldn't I? 

In this case, I would say yes. While she might not intend for her comments to be offensive, whenever minorities and poor are mentioned she gets called out. This is not a one time thing.

And if I can remember who you are, you know you done messed up. I can't remember shit.

Yeah, I have trouble keeping y'all straight

Thanks for the heads up. I retract my prior statements.