Post by mrsukyankee on Oct 15, 2015 7:19:14 GMT -5
For me, feminism is similar to many other issues - a desire to have all human beings, including all women, be respected for who they are and the choices they make about their own lives, whether you agree or not. That does not mean I respect someone to decide to become a killer or racist toward others because then you are imposing your own self on others...it's more about celebrating each person's strengths and being okay with differences. So, if a guy has a strength that I don't, wahoo...let him do what he's good at. But if I have a strength that a guy doesn't have, then let me do what fits with my strength. And encourage growth for both individuals.
Yes I identify as a feminist, and I hate that you feel that that the umbrella is not wide enough to be included. The intersectional feminism post speaks volumes about how much work there is to be done to expand the inclusiveness of the term. But in the end I don't think it matters if you are actively fighting the fight or not, as long as you believe that women should be treated equally to men, and you can agree that's not where we are yet, then you are a feminist. I've pointed this out to many people who were surprised when I called myself a feminist, and then pointed out that they too are feminists. Being a feminist is not about being a femi-nazi, it's not being out there everyday protecting planned parenthoods (though it can be), it's not about telling men they are inferior, it's believing in equal treatment of people regardless of their sex and gender.
Yes, I am. I said this in the other thread, but I am a black feminist and I am very clear on the difference. There are some places where my wants and goals intersect with "mainstream" feminism, but there are things I want that don't matter to them enough to do anything about it, and things they want that don't matter to me enough to do anything about it. From all those racist white suffragists to the love and adoration of women like Lena Dunham, Amy Schumer and Tina Fey (all of whom tend to show or discuss black women in a negative light, that is, when they can be bothered to show or discuss us at all) to Patricia Arquette's "Blacks, you owe US now" comments, it has always been clear to me that white women feminists as a whole have an agenda that sees women of color as a non-factor or afterthought, at best.
That's why I say that things like that gentlemen thread and earlier this year, the women in Hollywood thread don't have anything to do with me. It caused me to get called out of my name on this board by a former regular and another former regular to be quite offended lol, but I am very clear on and quite confident about which battles are mine and which aren't, and if that offends anyone, I promise, you will live .
I used to not, now I do. Mostly because I decided I don't give a fuck what other people think feminism is or what the "right" way to be a feminist is. I consider myself a feminist and if people think some of my positions/beliefs or life choices aren't feminist, they can take a flying leap. I decided I was tired of people defining something by their own metric and telling me that I'm not a feminist. Who made them the final arbiter of that? Fuck off.
Nope. I think if I had been living with the first wave feminists I would have been right beside them. Second wave starting losing me and third wave is so different from who I am I have a hard time relating to them at all. They turn me off so much that it is hard to even listen to them.
I think of feminism as a worldwide movement at this point. Like Michelle Obama's current campaign to educate girls. The education of girls is the best way to improve economies in developing countries, lower birth rates, etc. In the US specifically I also think of feminism as working to stop rape culture and encourage "yes means yes," which I fully support. And yes, wage and hiring equality. Paid family leave for all working parents. Access to health care and abortion. To me this is why I'm a feminist. These are the issues (besides prison and sentencing reform) that I care most about.
For me, feminism is similar to many other issues - a desire to have all human beings, including all women, be respected for who they are and the choices they make about their own lives, whether you agree or not. That does not mean I respect someone to decide to become a killer or racist toward others because then you are imposing your own self on others...it's more about celebrating each person's strengths and being okay with differences. So, if a guy has a strength that I don't, wahoo...let him do what he's good at. But if I have a strength that a guy doesn't have, then let me do what fits with my strength. And encourage growth for both individuals.
I think the celebrating differences part is where the movement loses people. Many feel like there are certain positions or life choices that are not supported by feminism so it doesn't seem inclusive.
And as a side rant, somewhat related, I cringe when I hear people talk about "women's issues" and the "women's vote" as if A) these are issues only women care about and/or B) these are the issues that will decide how women vote. I am more than a uterus and personally find it offensive that politicians think all I care about is access to free birth control and abortions. You know who else csn care about those things? Men. You know who else couldn't care less about those things? Women. You know what are real women's issues? The economy. National security. Education.
I hate being lumped in some group that politicians think can be bought by discussing only a few issues. I wonder, do African Americans cringe in the same way when they hear the media talk about the "Black Vote"?
I used to not, now I do. Mostly because I decided I don't give a fuck what other people think feminism is or what the "right" way to be a feminist is. I consider myself a feminist and if people think some of my positions/beliefs or life choices aren't feminist, they can take a flying leap. I decided I was tired of people defining something by their own metric and telling me that I'm not a feminist. Who made them the final arbiter of that? Fuck off.
Yep.
This. I really came to own the label myself in law school, particularly on the seminar on sexual violence, which I took while reading Lean In. It's like I had been surrounded by feminist theories for a decade or so, and then one day I decided to wake up and really consider them. Luckily, because I was absorbing a lot of it through an academic setting, I was able to explore issues of intersectional feminism / forced to consider them from the get go. I know there are issues that I won't relate to as much. I know there are some aspects where we're still trying to figure out the appropriate response.
But as long as we keep talking and exploring the different ways our well-meaning behavior can have a negative impact or play a negative role in our culture, the better off, I think, that we'll be.
Post by wesleycrusher4ever on Oct 15, 2015 7:51:35 GMT -5
I do. I consider myself an intersectional feminist. It's a core value of mine. I prefer the definition from Rebecca Walker:
To be a feminist is to integrate an ideology of equality and female empowerment into the very fiber of my life. it is to search for personal clarity in the midst of systemic destruction, to join in sisterhood with women when often we are divided, to understand power structures with the intention of challenging them
She wrote a really great article about third wave feminism for Ms. Magazine in the early 90s b
Yes, I do identify as a feminist, although mostly in generalities. Equality? Yes. Equal pay? Yes. Abortion access? Yes. Most other standard feminist issues? Yes.
Some other things? Sex-positive? Kind of. Feminist as one's primary identifier (above race or sexuality?) Not so much. All women owe it to the movement to subjugate their personal desires? (I.e. SAHM's are bad for feminism) Nope.
Yes I do because I believe that men and women are fundamentally equal wrt to talent and ability and should be afforded equality of opportunity as a result. However, I do subscribe to "choice" feminism so I suppose there are people on this board who would say I am not really one. I think every man and woman should feel free to choose the pursuits that make them happiest and most satisfied. If one of my sons wants to be a SAHD someday, or a nurse for example as opposed to a doctor, I will absolutely support that just as I will support my daughter if she wants to become a surgeon or ascend the corporate ladder. You only get one chance at life, you should be able to do what makes you happy.
Yes, I do identify as a feminist, although mostly in generalities. Equality? Yes. Equal pay? Yes. Abortion access? Yes. Most other standard feminist issues? Yes.
Some other things? Sex-positive? Kind of. Feminist as one's primary identifier (above race or sexuality?) Not so much. All women owe it to the movement to subjugate their personal desires? (I.e. SAHM's are bad for feminism) Nope.
There are people on this board who say this fairly often and never get called out. I think that is bullshit.
Yes I do strongly. I believe my DH would say the same thing about himself. I am very disheartened that more people of both genders don't want to label themselves as such also.
For example. Hardly any of you ladies commented or even acknowledged the "twice as good thread" some of the women who did loosely equated it with being poor or female.
I will say that I read it but did not feel like I had anything of value to add to the discussion. And sometimes I feel like it isn't my place to comment in some threads. I'm there to read and learn.
For example. Hardly any of you ladies commented or even acknowledged the "twice as good thread" some of the women who did loosely equated it with being poor or female.
This isn't totally fair though. Threads get buried all the time depending on the hot thread of the moment. I saw it, but never got around to it because I am in and out and sometimes get distracted by shiny things. I'm happy to read it later today.
I think you should expand on that, because I'm not getting why they would coincide with 1234FIF!!'s. I don't intend to flame!
I should clarify that my beliefs coincide with the "I realized yesterday that, no matter how much folks here talk to me about feminism etc., I do not and will not ever feel vested in that movement. It isn't for me, despite the core issue supposedly being equality between men and women." part of 1234FIF!!'s.
In addition to that, I also think men and women are biologically and psychologically different. I like when I am treated with chivalry, and it's a quality I look for in men. I also (and this is the part that is going to get me flamed) don't agree with the extended, paid maternity leaves.
I think that you can disagree with extended paid maternity leaves on an economic basis and still believe that women deserve to be equally respected as men.
I honestly don't know. It's become such a loaded word, and I don't want to be lumped in with things I don't agree with or support. But at the end of the day, I don't really care how other people want to classify me.
I want my daughters, and women everywhere, to have choices. To have opportunities to accomplish their goals. Call that what you want.
The thing is, I don't truly care whether other people think I'm a feminist or not because I SAHM. However, what irritates me is the disingeniousness some people display about it. Not necessarily on here but in general. The innocent wondering of why so many people refuse to align themselves with such a natural, sensible cause. Well, you can't intentionally exclude people or their issues and then wonder why they're not jumping on your bandwagon and proudly wearing your label. It doesn't work like that. You see this kind of thing a lot on sites like Jezebel.
Post by redshoejune on Oct 15, 2015 8:34:31 GMT -5
I am a feminist and I get so frustrated with famous women who stand up and say that they're not because I feel like they have benefited a lot from it.
I am a feminist because I don't like the fact that moms are treated differently than other people (less than) in a way that dads aren't, that women always have to prove themselves more than men, and that the standards for looking "presentable" are so much higher for women than men. I hate seeing people react differently to me in the world because I am a woman, and seeing men get better responses to the same actions.
I started identifying strongly as a feminist when I had daughters. Not only did I start feeling like I was treated differently from the guys at work because I was a mom (felt about the same treatment before I had kids), but I want my girls to be treated as full little humans and not "girls" that are held to different behavior and academic standards than boys.
When I read this article yesterday all I could think was, great, but do they have any kids? Everything felt equal and good to me too until I had the mom label slapped on me and now I am different. Dads don't get labeled in that way because you know, it's the "wife's job" to take care of all the distracting details with having kids that get in the way of work.
On the topic, the older I get, the more I consider myself a feminist and the more aware I have become of how much sexism pervades our society.
you said it.. had dinner out with old college friends - one has turned 50 - we are all turning 50 next year- asked her what she liked about it
She basically said she no longer gives any fucks what people think. Which is interestingly a very positive aspect IMHO of a healthy emotional maturity (and what a lot of men grow up learning naturally - I realize there are MANY exceptions and they have other unique sexist pressures as men)