Katiescats, I'm taking this from you today--FF

[Deleted]

The Duggars are on the Today show, and WTF happened to John David? He looks like he's aged ten years.

Also, having them on just because the new season is starting? Lame.

[dev22]

They have to drum up publicity now that they are competing with the Bates - both for TV time and babies.

[katietornado]

Ha! Maybe when they booked the appearance they assumed Jichelle would be pregnant by now and they could announce it.

Rumors are swirling that Jana committed some sin and was sent off to camp like Josh was. Never would've expected that from her. And I'm dying to know what it could've been. She has always seemed to spout their party line. Jinger or Jessa, I could see rebelling. Jana or Jill, no way.

[basilosaurus]

I can see Jana rebelling. She's getting old in fundie land with no suitor in sight.

Plus, she's been taking care of the whole house forever. She's probably tired of it. The younger girls are the age she was when she was in charge, and they kind of do nothing.

[katietornado]

True, Sibil, but the FJ world seems to think that it's not uncommon for fundie royalty boys to marry down, but very rare for fundie royalty women to marry down. Since Jana's headship has to approve any courtship prospect, I bet it's difficult for her to find someone to court her.

[basilosaurus]

Agreed. Which is why I think she'll break off and find a new headship on her own

Any word on whether anyone is investigating Jill and her illegal teaching?

[SusanBAnthony]

Back this train up.

What is this camp?

What is a headship?

What does marrying down mean in fundie world?

What book should I read to learn more?

[dev22]

Aug 24, 2012 18:39:28 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Back this train up.

What is this camp? Sin in the Camp is a reference to win Josh (the oldest) did something they deemed "bad" - not sure that qe ever 100% figured out what it was. The camp is just a reference to their family.

What is a headship? Menfolk. Fathers if you are not married, husbands once you are.

What does marrying down mean in fundie world? Marrying someone that is beneth your status in the world of fundy royalty.

What book should I read to learn more?

Google Free Jinger. Go to Quiver Full of Snark.

[katietornado]

It's a "camp" associated with ATI (Advanced Training Institute), which is the cultish homeschooling curriculum the Duggars use.

Headship is the man in every woman's life who is in charge of her. For girls, it's their fathers. Upon marriage, headship is transferred to the husband.

Marrying down in this sense is that Jana Duggar is a fundie celebrity. She's used to a pretty comfortable lifestyle. Because fundies have tons of kids and don't believe in debt, they can find themselves in ridiculous living situations (like Anna (Keller) Duggar's sister, who lives with her husband and 7 children in a popup camper: freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10779). So for Jana to marry a guy and live in a popup trailer wouldn't look good on Jim Bob. He needs to find a rich fundie boy for her to marry, but there are few of those, since they shun education and working for others (they tend to start their own businesses, like Josh Duggar's "car lot," or the Bates family's "tree business").

You should lurk on www.freejinger.org It might suck hours of your life away, but it will be endless entertaining and morbidly fascinating.

[basilosaurus]

What is this camp? Gothard's (founder of ATI) camps. I forget the name specifically, but it's for children who are in rebellion. Here's a small post about it. razingruth.blogspot.com/2009/10/belief.html

What is a headship? The male leader. Your dad until you're married, then your husband.

What does marrying down mean in fundie world? There is a hierarchy in fundie world. The Duggars are fairly high, so they can't just marry the girls to any old quiverfuller. The Bates are below them.

What book should I read to learn more? Oh, lots of stuff. Read No Longer Quivering to hear perspectives of children and wives who have escaped (Ruth that I linked above was one of them). I've read Love Joy Feminism quite a bit, too. She's got good primers on quiverfull stuff. There's also a book called Quiverfull that's about 3 years old. Then there's Free Jinger for more current discussions.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I can totally see Jana breaking bad. Except I get the feeling it's probably something dumb like wearing pants or talking to a boy.

[dev22]

Oh, and blogs. Lots of blogs. And courtship stories.

ylcf.org/courtship-stories/

[basilosaurus]

I hate you, Dev. I was unaware of that one. There goes my evening.

[dev22]

Aug 24, 2012 19:01:47 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I hate you, Dev. I was unaware of that one. There goes my evening.

OMG, that is the holy grail of crazy "romantic" stories. I would have sucked you in much sooner had I known you had never been there

[msmerymac]

Aug 24, 2012 18:36:43 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Agreed. Which is why I think she'll break off and find a new headship on her own

Any word on whether anyone is investigating Jill and her illegal teaching?

I want to hear about the illegal teaching.

If anyone rebelled, my vote would be Jessa.

[basilosaurus]

In the state of Arkansas, if you homeschool, only the parent or guardian can be the teacher. But I think I confused the Js. It's Jessa who teaches, them, right? Not Jill? She's the future "midwife."

[katietornado]

Yes, Jessa is the teacher. Jill has supposedly been taking nursing classes and is planning to be a midwife. I can't remember the whole thing, but it's extremely snarkworthy. Like, they don't believe she should get higher education, so she can't be a legit midwife, so she's just been going to births and is going to call herself a doula or something...I forget. And the "nursing classes" she's taking are like the "law school" that Josh Duggar attended.

[basilosaurus]

Jill's at college minus I think. Her education basically consists of using a doppler and taking bp. I think she's been apprenticed to someone, but I think it's a lay midwife. Not even sure if she's licensed (I don't believe it's a requirement in AR). Apprenticeship does not require college education. For all I know, they didn't actually register the apprenticeship, so it may not even be valid.

[SusanBAnthony]

Aug 24, 2012 19:49:46 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Jill's at college minus I think. Her education basically consists of using a doppler and taking bp. I think she's been apprenticed to someone, but I think it's a lay midwife. Not even sure if she's licensed (I don't believe it's a requirement in AR). Apprenticeship does not require college education. For all I know, they didn't actually register the apprenticeship, so it may not even be valid.

Some states allow lay midwives and require no formal anything. Not that I think it is a great idea to hire a lay midwife with no documentation, but it happens well outside of the fundie crazies. Less so, now, but when we interviewed he midwives, most of the more experience ones were lay midwives who went back later and got NARM certified years later.

[debatethis]

Aug 24, 2012 18:57:28 GMT -5 dev22 said:

Oh, and blogs. Lots of blogs. And courtship stories.

ylcf.org/courtship-stories/

OMG x2.
A college classmate's story is on here. And he's married to Rebecca St. James. rsjames.com/updates/2011/2/20/article-love-is-with-rebecca-st-james.html

[msmerymac]

Aug 24, 2012 20:16:14 GMT -5 debatethis said:

Aug 24, 2012 18:57:28 GMT -5 dev22 said:

Oh, and blogs. Lots of blogs. And courtship stories.

ylcf.org/courtship-stories/

OMG x2.
A college classmate's story is on here. And he's married to Rebecca St. James. rsjames.com/updates/2011/2/20/article-love-is-with-rebecca-st-james.html

And he's the bassist for Foster the People. Nice.

[pugz]

wait RSJ got married? I loved her when I was 13, lol. Totally used the devotionals she wrote.

I am fascinated by the Duggars and all fundies. What I wouldn't give for another FLDS book, alas I have read them all.

I think Jana has got to be getting antsy to get married and have her own kids by now. I worry the Duggars aren't exposing their older kids to other QF families enough and are taking advantage of having them at home to run the household for them. They can't meet spouses if they are at home.