Russian airline official rules out technical error as cause

[MrsAxilla]

www.washingtonpost.com/world/remains-of-some-dead-in-russian-air-crash-over-sinai-arrive-in-st-petersburg/2015/11/02/69d6ef0c-80ed-11e5-8bd2-680fff868306_story.html

MOSCOW— The break-up of a Russian passenger jet in mid-flight over the Sinai peninsula was not caused by malfunction or pilot error, the airline said Monday, deepening the mystery over the disaster but leaving open probes into some kind of possible plot or attack.

The latest statements in Moscow gave no clear indications of the direction of the investigations into Saturday’s crash that killed all 224 aboard.

But they appeared to reinforce suspicions that experts were digging deeper into possible terrorist-linked scenarios in a region with various militant factions including the Islamic State. Russia says the group is one of the targets of Moscow’s military intervention in Syria.

Alexander Smirnov, deputy general director of the airline, insisted the tragedy could only be the result of some “mechanical impact on the aircraft.”

Dmitri Peskov, the personal spokesman to Russian President Vladimir Putin, said that an act of terrorism had not been ruled out, but urged patience until the investigation presents its results.

Putin called the crash an “enormous tragedy.”

“The plane was in excellent condition,” Smirnov told the news conference. “We rule out a technical fault and any mistake by the crew.”

Smirnov said the crash could not have occurred because of either a fuel problem or engine failure, as neither would lead to the plane breaking up in midair. He declined to elaborate on the theory of an “impact.”

The statement, however, could further draw attention to claims by the Islamic State-linked faction in the Sinai that it brought down the ­Metrojet Airbus 321-200 — an assertion quickly dismissed by Russian officials but leading some international carriers to reroute flights away from the Sinai.

Some defense experts also have raised strong doubts over whether the Islamic State would have missile systems capable to hitting an airliner at 31,000 feet.

[What would cause of plane to break up in midair?]

In Washington, the director of national intelligence, said there was no “direct evidence of terrorist involvement yet,” but noted it cannot be fully disregarded.


“It’s unlikely, but I wouldn’t rule it out,” Clapper told reporters.

Russia’s prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, called for a thorough investigation into the crash of the St. Petersburg-bound plane, which crashed about 22 minutes into the flight from the Egyptian resort city of Sharm el-Sheikh.

“The key task is to investigate in detail what caused the tragedy,” Medvedev said in remarks shown by Rossiya-24 state television.

In Egypt, the prime minister’s office said the search for wreckage is likely to end Monday, and experts from Russia, Egypt and the airline will examine the recovered flight recorder.

Meanwhile, an emergency ministry plane with the remains of 144 victims of the crash arrived in St. Petersburg, Russia’s second largest city .

In St. Petersburg, two white trucks ferried the remains of the passengers of Kogalymavia Flight 9268 from the tarmac to a city crematorium for identification by relatives. The government of St. Petersburg extended an official period of mourning through Monday, and makeshift memorials have appeared at the city’s main Pulkovo airport.

In Russia, the crash is being called the deadliest aviation disaster in the country’s history.

The repatriation of the remains came as Russian labor officials said Monday that Kogalymavia, the airline managing the charter flight, using the name Metrojet, had not paid its employees in the last two months due to financial difficulties.

“The size of the debt is being assessed,” the press service for Rostrud, Russia’s Federal Labor Agency, wrote in a statement. Russian airlines are in severe financial distress because of the country’s economic crisis, and Transaero, Russia’s second-biggest airline, was grounded after filing for bankruptcy this month.

At the press conference, representatives for Kogalymavia confirmed they had held wages from employees, but denied that could have led to reduced safety standards.

Russian charter and domestic airlines have long had a spotty safety record, and a pilot on the Metrojet flight complained to his wife about the condition of the ­Airbus 321-200 shortly before take-off, Russian state television reported.

However, the pilot did not send an SOS signal before the crash, Egyptian Civil Aviation Minister Hossam Kamal said, and the plane broke up in midair, spreading debris over seven square miles, according to a senior Russian aviation official on a visit to the crash site this weekend.

[Sinai increasingly restive and unstable]

Metrojet officials said the same jetliner sustained damage when the tail struck the runway during a landing in Cairo in 2001, but was repaired by Airbus and regularly inspected since then. At the time, the aircraft serviced flights run by Middle East Airlines.

Modern planes do not usually fall apart in flight, barring an explosion caused by a bomb or missile, but Viktor Sorochenko, an official with Russia’s Interstate Aviation Committee, said it is too early to tell what caused the crash.

The plane crashed in a remote area of central Sinai, a large desert expanse where Islamist militants are waging a violent anti-government insurgency.

The crash occurred just weeks after Russian warplanes began targeting rebel positions in Syria, and the Islamic State’s Sinai affiliate was quick to seize the opportunity to declare that it had shot down the plane in retaliation.

Both Russian and Egyptian officials have denied claims by the Islamic State militant group that it had downed the plane, however.

Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov was in Egypt with a team of experts to help with the investigation, but said “little information” had been gathered so far, the Reuters news agency reported Sunday.

Egyptian officials said the Civil Aviation Ministry was analyzing data from two recovered flight recorders now at the ministry headquarters in Cairo.

Four major international airlines and a regional carrier announced they would avoid flying over Sinai until investigators know what caused the crash of Flight 9268. The move by Lufthansa, Air France-KLM, Qatar Airways and the Dubai-based Emirates and FlyDubai airlines to divert flights from Sinai’s airspace underscored growing international concerns about the jihadists’ reach in the region.

The only U.S. airline that flies in the region, United, does “not see a need” to change its routes at this time, a spokesman said Sunday.

Germany’s Transportation Ministry urged the country’s airlines not to use the route the Russian plane was flying when it crashed, according to the Associated Press. Before the crash, the ministry had issued a warning to airlines about flying over the northern part of the peninsula, which is a militant stronghold.

The Islamic State’s local affiliate is believed by security experts to possess shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles that can hit low-flying aircraft in the area. But those weapons systems are not capable of hitting aircraft above 10,000 feet, analysts say.

In July 2014, Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine by a warhead fired from a Russian-built Buk missile system, Dutch investigators said. That plane was flying at 33,000 feet after its departure from Amsterdam airport.

If militants in the Sinai were responsible for the destruction of the Russian airliner Saturday, they could only have done so with the acquisition of a similar sophisticated weapons system — or through the placement of a bomb while the plane was still on the ground.

Cunningham reported from Cairo, Deane from London. Heba Habib in Cairo and Brian Murphy in Washington also contributed to this report.

Read more:

Al-Qaeda in Syria calls for revenge attacks on Russia

Russia defends Syria airstrikes amid claims of blows to U.S.-backed rebel

Today's coverage from Post correspondents around the world

[Velar Fricative]

Gee, I wonder why I'm so skeptical about Russia trying to place blame on ISIS.

[Cicero]

I realize that I'm not an expert, but how could you possibly rule out a technical failure before you've even had an opportunity to inspect the plane or examine the cockpit recorders?

[ttt]

I don't trust Russian OR Egyptian officials, so I have no idea what to believe here.

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 2, 2015 13:17:57 GMT -5 Cicero said:

I realize that I'm not an expert, but how could you possibly rule out a technical failure before you've even had an opportunity to inspect the plane or examine the cockpit recorders?

Oh you and your logic.

[Velar Fricative]

Nov 2, 2015 13:18:28 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't trust Russian OR Egyptian officials, so I have no idea what to believe here.

I think I trust the Egyptians more, only because I know more about the Russian airline industry and it scares the fuck out of me. But yeah, Imma need the Swiss to show up and do some investigating.

[twotrue]

I wouldn't put it past Putin to have done it himself so he can justify more war.

[sparrowsong]

Glad to see I'm not the only one skeptical as hell on this entire thing. Are plane crashed investigating by any kind of international safety board or something? I just can't trust the conclusions being jumped to by the parties involved.

[downtoearth]

Nov 2, 2015 13:17:57 GMT -5 Cicero said:

I realize that I'm not an expert, but how could you possibly rule out a technical failure before you've even had an opportunity to inspect the plane or examine the cockpit recorders?

I thought they recovered the recorders within hours. So by now, I think they have examined those, no?

[iammalcolmx]

Nov 2, 2015 13:18:28 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't trust Russian OR Egyptian officials, so I have no idea what to believe here.

True dat. However I am actually now on the " foul play" bandwagon because what else can make an aircraft break up mid flight?

[iammalcolmx]

Nov 2, 2015 13:42:45 GMT -5 sparrowsong said:

Glad to see I'm not the only one skeptical as hell on this entire thing. Are plane crashed investigating by any kind of international safety board or something? I just can't trust the conclusions being jumped to by the parties involved.

Since it was an Airbus I believe there will be French investigators, just as we send folks whenever there is an issue with Boeing.

[MrsAxilla]

Nov 2, 2015 13:14:03 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Gee, I wonder why I'm so skeptical about Russia trying to place blame on ISIS.

No, they're denying ISIS was to blame.  Which, who knows right now.  But Russia very much wants to be perceived as untouchable.  

[ttt]

Nov 2, 2015 13:52:37 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Nov 2, 2015 13:42:45 GMT -5 sparrowsong said:

Glad to see I'm not the only one skeptical as hell on this entire thing. Are plane crashed investigating by any kind of international safety board or something? I just can't trust the conclusions being jumped to by the parties involved.

Since it was an Airbus I believe there will be French investigators, just as we send folks whenever there is an issue with Boeing.

Now that I would actually trust. 

The Egyptians have a vested interest in this NOT being terrorism, given the fragile state of their economy and tourism sector, and the Russians, well, nobody can trust them further than they can throw them in the best of times. So I'm taking everything with a huge grain of salt until I hear from the Airbus investigators. 

[ttt]

Nov 2, 2015 13:51:30 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Nov 2, 2015 13:18:28 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't trust Russian OR Egyptian officials, so I have no idea what to believe here.

True dat. However I am actually now on the " foul play" bandwagon because what else can make an aircraft break up mid flight?

As I understand, there are basically three things that can do that - a severe, extreme weather event, an in-air collision, or external forces i.e. a bomb or missile strike. Much less likely but still possible is a severe structural problem, where the plane literally falls apart because of corrosion in the metal or something. 

The first two I think can be ruled out, because there's no indication of severe weather and there were no other planes involved. So that leaves terrorism as the most likely culprit, but not necessarily the only possibility. 

[iammalcolmx]

Nov 2, 2015 14:05:50 GMT -5 ttt said:

Nov 2, 2015 13:52:37 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Since it was an Airbus I believe there will be French investigators, just as we send folks whenever there is an issue with Boeing.

Now that I would actually trust. 

The Egyptians have a vested interest in this NOT being terrorism, given the fragile state of their economy and tourism sector, and the Russians, well, nobody can trust them further than they can throw them in the best of times. So I'm taking everything with a huge grain of salt until I hear from the Airbus investigators. 

Remember how fast Airbus made the German-wings investigators tell everyone the pilot killed everyone? None of these companies want anyone losing faith in their product. However, I can see the Maintenance procedures in Russia not being the best. Kinda how the China Airlines 747 had bad screws in it, causing it to corkscrew and invert TWICE mid flight. 

[ttt]

Did we talk about how it has come out that Metrojet hadn't paid its employees in two months?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11969465/Russian-plane-crash-investigators-examine-theory-that-Isil-bombed-airliner.html

Airline had not paid employees for two months
The airline of the jet that crashed into the Sinai had not paid its staff in over two months, Russian news agencies have reported.

The widow of the doomed jet's co-pilot, Sergey Trukhachov, said that he had not been paid for three months.
Metrojet's parent company, Kogalymavia, has wage arrears of just over $1 million (£650,000), according to its CEO Alexander Snagovsky.

The airline flies charter flights to popular destinations such as Turkey and Egypt, and has a history of serious accidents.

AFP reports that in 2010, one of Kogalymavia's Tupolev planes leased to an Iranian carrier made a hard landing and broke up and caught fire, injuring 46 passengers.

In 2011, three people died after one of its Tupolevs caught fire on the runway in the Russian Far North on New Year's Day.
Kogalymavia stopped flying Tupolevs later that year and in 2012, it rebranded itself as Metrojet.

The plane that was involved in this crash had previously been in an accident in which its tail had been damaged. The plane was not operating under this airline at the time, and Metrojet stressed that it was properly repaired and had recent safety checks.

Russia has a poor air safety record, particularly with smaller airlines' unmodernised fleets causing worries.

[aurora]

Nov 2, 2015 14:10:45 GMT -5 ttt said:

Did we talk about how it has come out that Metrojet hadn't paid its employees in two months?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11969465/Russian-plane-crash-investigators-examine-theory-that-Isil-bombed-airliner.html

...

Well, that's no good.

[scout8]

Will someone please reassure me that my plane will not be flying over Egypt on the way to Amman Jordan in a couple of weeks? It won't, right? Our route should stay further north, correct?

[ttt]

Nov 2, 2015 15:25:37 GMT -5 scout8 said:

Will someone please reassure me that my plane will not be flying over Egypt on the way to Amman Jordan in a couple of weeks? It won't, right? Our route should stay further north, correct?

What airline are you flying?

[scout8]

Nov 2, 2015 16:39:53 GMT -5 ttt said:

Nov 2, 2015 15:25:37 GMT -5 scout8 said:

Will someone please reassure me that my plane will not be flying over Egypt on the way to Amman Jordan in a couple of weeks? It won't, right? Our route should stay further north, correct?

What airline are you flying?

Royal Jordanian from Chicago.

[ttt]

Nov 2, 2015 16:43:00 GMT -5 scout8 said:

Nov 2, 2015 16:39:53 GMT -5 ttt said:

What airline are you flying?

Royal Jordanian from Chicago.

You're good :

flightaware.com/live/flight/RJA264/history/20151031/0330Z/KORD/OJAI