Open carry becomes focus after Colorado Springs shooting ram

[aurora]

www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29064963/open-carry-becomes-focus-after-colorado-springs-shooting

Open carry becomes focus after Colorado Springs shooting rampage
Noah Harpham was spotted openly carrying a rifle before he killed 3 in Colorado Springs
By Jesse Paul
The Denver Post
Posted: 11/03/2015 12:04:50 PM MST

An emergency call placed moments before Saturday's shooting rampage in Colorado Springs has sparked intense debate on how police should respond to armed people in public given Colorado's open carry law.

Naomi Bettis told The Denver Post she called 911 after spotting her neighbor, 33-year-old Noah Harpham, armed with a rifle on the street. She says a dispatcher explained Colorado allows public handling of firearms.

Harpham went on to kill three people.

The open carry law has become a central focus in the tragedy after scores across the country took to social media to question the Colorado Springs police department's apparent lack of immediate response to Bettis' report.

Police agencies statewide say the statute poses a difficult question of how to react when citizens call — frequently — to report an armed person in public. Is it an emergency or not?

"A lot of (our reaction) depends on information we obtain from the person calling in," said Julie Brooks, spokeswoman for the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office. "The information we get from the caller is vitally important."

Colorado Springs police have yet to speak at length about their response before and during the rampage, including whether or not officers were dispatched following Bettis' initial call.

"He could have shot me," Bettis said, adding she was perturbed by the dispatcher's reaction and feels prompt action could have prevented catastrophe.

Harpham killed bicyclist Andrew Alan Myers, 35; Jennifer Michelle Vasquez, 42, and Christina Rose Baccus-Gallela, 34, during his spree before dying in a shootout with officers.

Myers' grandfather said Tuesday his grandson was a father of two who spent a decade in the Army, including three tours in Iraq. Witnesses said Myers pleaded for his life — yelling "Don't shoot me! Don't shoot me!" — before being killed.

Denver-area law enforcement agencies say their response to armed people in public varies on the circumstances.

"Is this person exercising their rights or about to start a very serious situation in which someone is going to be killed?" said Jacki Kelley, spokeswoman for the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office. "We just don't know the difference."

Kelley said deputies, for instance, respond with lights and sirens blaring when an open carry situation is reported outside a school. Recently, the sheriff's office has twice fielded reports from alarmed citizens when someone had a gun in a movie theater.

In those situations, deputies made an emergency, immediate response.

"That can be sensitive because of the Aurora theater shooting," Kelley said.

In Denver, police say they always respond to reports of a person openly carrying a firearm because doing so is banned in the city.

The topic of open carry is highly debated between those on both sides of the gun control issue. Scores of videos posted online show confrontations by open carriers and police, including people who are stopped with guns outside schools and businesses.

An 18-year-old in Aurora generated buzz last year when he posted a video on YouTube showing one of those encounters with officers after being spotted carrying a shotgun down the street.

"It's not a crime," an officer tells the teen, "but you're causing alarm to people."

Dan Montgomery, who served for 47 years as a police officer, including 25 years as Westminster's chief, said he feels police in Colorado Springs should have rushed to the neighborhood after Bettis' initial report on Harpham.

"That is just too suspicious," Montgomery said of the situation.

Having police respond with lights and sirens can also alert people in the vicinity to a potentially dire situation, he said.

"If you've got someone walking down the street and they are holding a rifle in their hands, that requires an emergency response by police," said Montgomery, who now runs Professional Police and Public Safety Consulting . "What the hell are they doing with the rifle?"

Jesse Paul: 303-954-1733, [e-mail] or @jesseapaul

[aurora]

I can see how open carry laws can make decisions on how to respond very difficult to make. Anywhere from harassing a law-abiding citizen to failing to stop a multiple murderer, with the preliminary decision made based on the assumed credibility of an unknown caller.

[suzyp]

Apparently there was some guy walking down the street in my hometown carrying some large weapon. My high school classmate posted something about it on FB and said she called the police, who said they were aware of him, but that he was just "exercising his 2nd Amendment rights." She actually had people chastise her for calling the police. I'm sorry, but WTF, I would call too. I was happy that she told everyone that she would do it again. (And I can place money on what color this guy was and was not!)

[aurora]

Nov 4, 2015 9:35:42 GMT -5 suzyp said:

Apparently there was some guy walking down the street in my hometown carrying some large weapon. My high school classmate posted something about it on FB and said she called the police, who said they were aware of him, but that he was just "exercising his 2nd Amendment rights." She actually had people chastise her for calling the police. I'm sorry, but WTF, I would call too. I was happy that she told everyone that she would do it again. (And I can place money on what color this guy was and was not!)

Yeah, it seems like a given these days that the snap judgements over who is suspicious and who is not are going to be biased by racism, even if unconscious.

[Deleted]

What exactly is the purpose of open carry? In this day and age in our country, you have at least half the nation scared that they are going to be caught up in a shooting at school, at the movies, at Target, at CHURCH...why do people need to walk around with AR-15s strapped to their back like they're on the front line?

Quite frankly, I think every call about a person with a gun should be investigated, no matter how much of a nuisance and waste of time/resources it is. The one that doesn't get investigated might be the one that ends up like this - with innocent people dead on the street. So let's make the cops check them all out.

[elleblue]

Nov 4, 2015 9:31:06 GMT -5 aurora said:

I can see how open carry laws can make decisions on how to respond very difficult to make. Anywhere from harassing a law-abiding citizen to failing to stop a multiple murderer, with the preliminary decision made based on the assumed credibility of an unknown caller.

It's not the laws that complicate the assessment. As we've seen in many instances, it's the race of the person that determines the threat level. HTH

[fuckyourcouch]

Nov 4, 2015 12:16:54 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Nov 4, 2015 9:55:43 GMT -5 @bugginnine said:

What exactly is the purpose of open carry? In this day and age in our country, you have at least half the nation scared that they are going to be caught up in a shooting at school, at the movies, at Target, at CHURCH...why do people need to walk around with AR-15s strapped to their back like they're on the front line?

From my observations, it's for the sole purpose of "exercising one's 2nd Amendment rights".  

Which seems to me to exemplify White [Hetero, Male] Privilege.  Because who else feels so entitled and has the expectation of being allowed to walk around in public freely (and without interruption) "exercising their rights", just for the fuck of it?  

Persons of Color, women, non-heterosexuals, non-Christians, etc. do not have those same entitlements and expectations.  

Exactly. Somebody walking down the street with a rifle is doing it to get a reaction, and then feigning shock or surprise when people have that reaction, plus the added horse shit of then crying that their constitutional rights have been attacked.

Fuck off.

[ijack]

Interesting. A couple years ago (right after sandy hook) DD's school had a lock down because there was a man in the vicinity carrying what appeared to be a firearm. In comparing it to this I'm wondering what would make all schools in a certain radius go on lock down, but a 911 dispatcher not do anything. I bet you guys are right, and the guy a couple years ago was black

[downtoearth]

We had a lockdown at our schools a couple years ago.  All of the schools in the whole district were locked down after a (white) man exercised his right to open carry near a high school neighborhood and a parent dropping a kid off called it into the police. The email from the district was pretty clear that they would continue to lockdown schools and request officers with any open carry within the right of way near schools.

I don't think they ever released the man's identity or could charge him with anything. They just sat and surrounded him for an hour while he walked around. 

[jln]

Tamir Rice was just exercising his 2nd ammendment rights.

I can guaranfuckingtee you that if I see someone with a gun in public I will be calling 911. I'd rather be that annoying person than watch innocent lives taken.

[Bad Dingo]

Nov 4, 2015 9:55:43 GMT -5 @bugginnine said:

What exactly is the purpose of open carry?

Because it's illegal to walk around with your dick out.

[aurora]

Nov 4, 2015 9:55:43 GMT -5 @bugginnine said:

What exactly is the purpose of open carry? ...

I guess if somebody is going to be carrying a gun I'd just as soon he carry it out in the open instead of having it hidden, so I know to walk away.

[YeahSure]

Nov 4, 2015 12:16:54 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Nov 4, 2015 9:55:43 GMT -5 @bugginnine said:

What exactly is the purpose of open carry? In this day and age in our country, you have at least half the nation scared that they are going to be caught up in a shooting at school, at the movies, at Target, at CHURCH...why do people need to walk around with AR-15s strapped to their back like they're on the front line?

From my observations, it's for the sole purpose of "exercising one's 2nd Amendment rights".  

Which seems to me to exemplify White [Hetero, Male] Privilege.  Because who else feels so entitled and has the expectation of being allowed to walk around in public freely (and without interruption) "exercising their rights", just for the fuck of it?  

Persons of Color, women, non-heterosexuals, non-Christians, etc. do not have those same entitlements and expectations.  

This right here. John Crawford picks up a toy gun in Walmart, carries it in the store, in an OPEN CARRY STATE, and is murdered by police on sight.

[One Girl In All The World]

Nov 4, 2015 13:23:13 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Nov 4, 2015 9:55:43 GMT -5 @bugginnine said:

What exactly is the purpose of open carry?

Because it's illegal to walk around with your dick out.

In a nutshell, right there.