Trump KOKO re: BLM, Syrian fugees and The Wall

[LadySusan]

This can not be real life.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-defends-bogus-muslim-claim-and-rough-treatment-of-black-protester/2015/11/22/b93e7f3a-913f-11e5-a2d6-f57908580b1f_story.html

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. — Donald Trump on Sunday defended erroneous claims he made about U.S. Muslims cheering the 9/11 attacks and said a black protester at a weekend rally here was “so obnoxious and loud” that “maybe he should have been roughed up” by white audience members.

The Birmingham rally marks the latest example of Trump’s refusal to back down amid outcries over his often-incendiary racial and religious rhetoric — and comes as polls show him once again with a clear lead over the rest of the candidates seeking the Republican Party’s presidential nomination.

Saturday’s racially charged altercation occurred in Birmingham, famous in the 1960s as a center of the civil rights struggle. The thousands who attended Trump’s rally were nearly all white in a city with a black majority.

Mercutio Southall Jr. — a well-known local activist who has been repeatedly arrested while protesting what he says is unfair treatment of blacks — interrupted Trump’s rally and could be heard shouting, “Black lives matter!” A fight broke out, prompting Trump to briefly halt his remarks and demand the removal of Southall.

“Get him the hell out of here, will you, please?” Trump said Saturday morning. “Get him out of here. Throw him out!”

At one point, Southall fell to the ground and was surrounded by several white men who appeared to be kicking and punching him, according to video captured by CNN. A Washington Post reporter in the crowd witnessed one of the men put his hands on Southall’s neck and heard a female onlooker repeatedly shout, “Don’t choke him!”

As security officers got Southall on his feet and led him out of the building, he was repeatedly pushed and shoved by people in the crowd. The crowd alternated between booing and cheering. There were chants of, “All lives matter!”

[Black activist punched at Donald Trump rally in Birmingham]

“Maybe he should have been roughed up, because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing,” Trump said on the Fox News Channel on Sunday morning. “I have a lot of fans, and they were not happy about it. And this was a very obnoxious guy who was a troublemaker who was looking to make trouble.”

That was a change in tone from just a month ago, when Trump would regularly tell his audiences not to harm the protesters who often infiltrate his rallies.

“Don’t hurt ’em,” Trump said at a rally in Miami on Oct. 23 as pro-immigration activists were led out. “You can get ’em out, but don’t hurt ’em.”

Also at the Birmingham rally, Trump claimed he watched as “thousands and thousands of people” in Jersey City, N.J., cheered the fall of the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, giving the impression that he was talking about Muslims living in the United States being happy that so many Americans died in the attacks. Officials have repeatedly debunked these persistent Internet rumors — most commonly attached to Paterson, N.J., rather than Jersey City — and there is no news coverage or other evidence corroborating them.

But Trump stood by his comments during an interview on ABC’s “This Week” on Sunday, saying that the cheers came from the “large Arab populations” in New Jersey.

“It did happen. I saw it,” Trump said. “It was on television. I saw it.”

But Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop said on Twitter that Trump “has memory issues or willfully distorts the truth, either of which should be concerning for the Republican Party.” In a statement, the Anti-Defamation League called Trump’s claims “irresponsible” and “factually challenged.”

Jerry Speziale, the Paterson police commissioner, told The Post’s Fact Checker: “That is totally false. That is patently false. That never happened. There were no flags burning, no one was ­dancing.”

Trump, who led the field at 32 percent in a Washington Post-ABC News poll released Sunday, has long made provocative statements a hallmark of his campaign. Critics and rivals have said that Trump is stoking racial tension. Former Florida governor Jeb Bush said Trump’s comments about Islam are “manipulating people’s angst and their fears.”

After the Birmingham altercation, Southall told the AL.com news site that the commotion started as he began recording himself and other protesters at the rally and saying that he wanted “Donald Trump to know he’s not welcome here.” Southall said someone knocked the phone out of his hand and made a racial slur. Then there was pushing, Southall told the news site, and punches started flying.

A swarm of security officers quickly made its way through the crowd of several thousand, got Southall off the ground and walked him out of the building. Trump has had Secret Service protection since Nov. 11, and those who attend his rallies and political events must now walk through metal detectors and have their bags searched.

As Southall was removed Saturday, Trump recounted how Bernie Sanders, candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, responded to “Black Lives Matter” activists who came onstage during an event earlier this year.

[Anti-Islam rhetoric increases on GOP campaign trail]

“You see, he was politically correct,” Trump said. “Two young women came up to the podium. They took over his microphone. I promise you, that’s not going to happen with me. I promise you. Never going to happen. Not going to happen. Can’t let that stuff happen.”

Before the fight broke out, Trump had warned the audience that Islamic State fighters might recruit their children online and called for an impenetrable wall along the southern border, prompting the crowd to chant: “Build a wall! Build a wall! Build a wall!” In his nearly hour-long speech, Trump listed graphic details of killings committed by people who had entered the country illegally, promised to bar Syrian refugees from living in the United States because they might be terrorists and called for heavy surveillance of “certain mosques.”

From the media area, reporters strained to see what was happening. CNN reporter Jeremy Diamond managed to make a video of the incident before Trump staffers forced him back into the media pen. As the video circulated on social media that night, some of Trump’s supporters took to Twitter to call the protesters “thugs,” “Dem plants” and a variety of obscene names. Several wrote that the protesters opened themselves up to the possibility of violence by attending the rally.

Trump grew agitated as reporters shifted their focus to the protesters.

“Look at those bloodsuckers back there,” Trump said. “They’re turned around, and they’re following the people, right? Because you have a small group of people that made some noise and are being thrown out on their ass. Right?”

The crowd roared with cheers.

Amber Phillips and Glenn Kessler in Washington contributed to this report.

[jdnotbyrider]

.... Like, my family thinks it is a joke when I say that if this rolling around in Cheetos piece of shit becomes president, that I'd be ashamed to live in this country and not be proud to be an American, but I'm dead serious with that.

Really makes me wish that I had enough money to set up a home in Canada, where there's a liberal leader and a 50/50 male-female cabinet.

[DesertMoon]

Like I said earlier, he is a douchelord. He can't become president I won't allow it.

[ESF]

I'm sure he will be condemned by the rest of the GOP leadership and others in the race any minute now.

[lexxasaurus]

"Trump listed graphic details of killings committed by people who had entered the country illegally"

Oh good. If we get rid of the immigrants, we'll totally see a decline in things like serial murder and mass shootings! Oh, wait...

[Deleted]

Oh, is being obnoxious and loud the criteria for roughing people up? Because I can think of someone who fits that bill and is about due for some karma to come around.

[NewOrleans]

Omfg.

I've got nothing

[NewOrleans]

And lofuckingl forever that these flagrant fucking racist have the fucking nerve to say "all lives matter" given what they believe. How, how is this my country?

[underwaterrhymes]

This scares tthe ever loving shit out of me.

What the fuck is wrong with our society that people are embracing him?

[Deleted]

I have one friend on FB that has been "liking" his stuff. I knew she was conservative, I thought she was a Rubio supporter which, while not my choice of candidate, is someone I would expect her to support, but she's so damn fearful of the Syrian refugees that she seems to be thinking everything Trump says about the issue is the right answer. He's only doing as well as he is because so many people fear foreigners or people who aren't like them. Even my super right wing NRA-supporting uncles don't like Trump.

The Republican Party not doing more to denounce what he says is making their whole establishment look worse. My only thought is they're letting him and Carson spew their hateful rhetoric so when Rubio or Bush or whomever gets the nomination, they'll look 10x more electable by default because what they spew has been overshadowed by the other crazy.

[jln]

Just this morning the news said he's leading at 22%, Carson is behind him at 11%. His poll numbers increased after his racist, fascist statements.

[smock]

I keep thinking Trump has hit the rock bottom for human decency, and yet he finds a way to burrow deeper. I almost wish he were intentionally trying to tank his campaign with his outrageously racist behavior. And yet he keeps getting rewarded for it. I'm horrified.

[sushi]

Nov 23, 2015 8:55:17 GMT -5 jln said:

Just this morning the news said he's leading at 22%, Carson is behind him at 11%. His poll numbers increased after his racist, fascist statements.

What I watched this morning said Trump was 32%, Carson 22%, rubio 11%.

Scary!

[miniroller]

Nov 23, 2015 8:55:17 GMT -5 jln said:

His poll numbers increased after his racist, fascist statements.

And they do every time, which he's figured out I'm so embarrassed & disgusted about what this says of my country. It's not a good look for us, America.

And just a head's up for the people talking about moving if he is elected: I was corrected that it's a much more challenging process than I originally (naively) thought. BUT New Zealand is accepting new citizens, so that's where H & I have been strongly considering, should this disgusting, racist, judgmental shitpig take office.

[debatethis]

Nov 23, 2015 9:07:31 GMT -5 miniroller said:

Nov 23, 2015 8:55:17 GMT -5 jln said:

His poll numbers increased after his racist, fascist statements.

And they do every time, which he's figured out I'm so embarrassed & disgusted about what this says of my country. It's not a good look for us, America.

And just a head's up for the people talking about moving if he is elected: I was corrected that it's a much more challenging process than I originally (naively) thought. BUT New Zealand is accepting new citizens, so that's where H & I have been strongly considering, should this disgusting, racist, judgmental shitpig take office.

I don't follow it closely but I've heard several mentions of NZ having a xenophobia and racism problem much like the US.

[froggy76]

We all know he's a horrible person and a racist. What continues to shock me, though, is how blatant it is and the language that he uses:

“Look at those bloodsuckers back there,” Trump said. “They’re turned around, and they’re following the people, right? Because you have a small group of people that made some noise and are being thrown out on their ass. Right?”

I mean, I curse a lot, but this kind of language is not acceptable from a presidential candidate.

[miniroller]

Nov 23, 2015 10:06:46 GMT -5 debatethis said:

Nov 23, 2015 9:07:31 GMT -5 miniroller said:

And they do every time, which he's figured out I'm so embarrassed & disgusted about what this says of my country. It's not a good look for us, America.

And just a head's up for the people talking about moving if he is elected: I was corrected that it's a much more challenging process than I originally (naively) thought. BUT New Zealand is accepting new citizens, so that's where H & I have been strongly considering, should this disgusting, racist, judgmental shitpig take office.

I don't follow it closely but I've heard several mentions of NZ having a xenophobia and racism problem much like the US.

Oh No!!! Well, this is good to know; thanks very much for the head's up. Back to hoping/ wishing/ waiting as patiently as possible for Hil to wipe the floor with his racist, sexist, idiotic ass.

[ESF]

Here they go. Chris Christie, doing nothing.
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/23/chris-christie-tiptoes-around-donald-trump-s-9-11-lie.html

Heckuva job, tellin' it like it is!

I can't wait to see how the others shrink away from leadership.

[curbsideprophet]

The idea of Trump being president scares the crap out of me.

[ESF]

I loved this piece. www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/23/hey-gop-will-you-stop-your-fascist-now.html

Money quote:

And that brings us to the question: Who in the Republican Party is going to step up here? Because this is A Moment for the GOP, make no mistake. It’s a historical moment, and when your leading candidate is joking about his supporters beating people up at rallies and musing about religious ID cards for around (ahem) six million of your citizens, it’s time to say something.

[sushi]

NZed has some pretty strict immigration rules. Unless you're independently wealthy, you basically need to be in health-care, it, or education.

Why do I know? I've wanted to live there regardless of us political situation

[NewOrleans]

Nov 23, 2015 14:26:38 GMT -5 ESF said:

I loved this piece. www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/23/hey-gop-will-you-stop-your-fascist-now.html

Money quote:

And that brings us to the question: Who in the Republican Party is going to step up here? 

[NewOrleans]

But ESF,fiscal conservatives. Andplusalso they might be running as racists, but it doesn't mean they're really racists. or something.

[onomatopoeia]

Nov 23, 2015 7:04:36 GMT -5 mockingbird said:

The only hope I've got left regarding this douche bag is that he will motivate people to get out and vote. If making sure this asshole doesn't make it to the Oval doesn't motivate voters, nothing will.

My concern is that people WILL vote.  People who support him, and are energized by his rantings, and fully believe he speaks on their behalf. 

(I do know what you mean. I'm just concerned the motivated voters here will be Trump supporters).

I do think (hope) he's going to flame out eventually.  I wonder which of the repub candidates will be left by then though.

ETA: and I'm not banking an any of the other candidates to step up.  They'll keep quiet, in the hope that when he does flame out his 22-32% of the polls will come their way.

[elleblue]

Nov 23, 2015 14:38:46 GMT -5 onomatopoeia said:

Nov 23, 2015 7:04:36 GMT -5 mockingbird said:

The only hope I've got left regarding this douche bag is that he will motivate people to get out and vote. If making sure this asshole doesn't make it to the Oval doesn't motivate voters, nothing will.

My concern is that people WILL vote.  People who support him, and are energized by his rantings, and fully believe he speaks on their behalf. 

(I do know what you mean. I'm just concerned the motivated voters here will be Trump supporters).

I do think (hope) he's going to flame out eventually.  I wonder which of the repub candidates will be left by then though.

ETA: and I'm not banking an any of the other candidates to step up.  They'll keep quiet, in the hope that when he does flame out his 22-32% of the polls will come their way.

Yes. Fear is a powerful motivator. 

[ESF]

Nov 23, 2015 14:36:49 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

But ESF ,fiscal conservatives. Andplusalso they might be running as racists, but it doesn't mean they're really racists. or something.

It is amazing to me that of 17 fucking people in that clown car, not one of them sees an advantage in loudly, unequivocally, and forcefully condemning Trump.

 We aren't talking about dog whistle politics anymore, and we aren't talking about these kinda sorta bad ideas that if you dig a little deeper, you see the disparate impact they have on women or minorities.   It cannot be explained away with any to the other excuses.  There's no gaffe here. It's not just a different political perspective.  It's not the beliefs of religious people who are just so nice and sincere that we need to just tolerate them and learn to live with them.  It's not the otherwise kindly elderly people who say things like "you know how those people are" and who you just wait to die out. 
 
We are talking about naked, unabashed, outright racism and hate.

You know, it's bad enough that not a single one of them sees a moral obligation to use their position and microphone to speak out.  But what's more appalling to me is what their silence is saying about how they see the GOP electorate. In sitting around silent, what they are saying to America is that they see no opportunity here, that there is no audience for their views, no people to pander to in speaking out against racism, hate, and intolerance.   These people now see in the GOP primary base only people that like hate speech.  Because if they actually saw an opportunity to distinguish themselves and appeal to voters by speaking out, why wouldn't they?

I'm not saying that their read on the GOP electorate is overwhelmingly accurate. Yes, there are those in the party who do not agree with the vile, disgusting words coming out of Trump's mouth.  But I think it's abundantly clear now that the GOP has decided that those people are not an interest group worth speaking to.  So make no mistake: this is the GOP of 2015.

[sparrowsong]

As usual esf said what I wish I could put into words. The failure of leadership from the other candidates is just as shameful and telling. These are not men who should be leading a multiracial, multicultural, 21st century America.

[downtoearth]

To make us all feel better... I read this today about not freaking out about polls and Trump leading yet...

fivethirtyeight.com/features/dear-media-stop-freaking-out-about-donald-trumps-polls/

Dear Media, Stop Freaking Out About Donald Trump’s Polls

Lately, pundits and punters seem bullish on Donald Trump, whose chances of winning the Republican presidential nomination recently inched above 20 percent for the first time at the betting market Betfair. Perhaps the conventional wisdom assumes that the aftermath of the terrorist attacks in Paris will play into Trump’s hands, or that Republicans really might be in disarray. If so, I can see where the case for Trump is coming from, although I’d still say a 20 percent chance is substantially too high.

Quite often, however, the Trump’s-really-got-a-chance! case is rooted almost entirely in polls. If nothing Trump has said so far has harmed his standing with Republicans, the argument goes, why should we expect him to fade later on?

One problem with this is that it’s not enough for Trump to merely avoid fading. Right now, he has 25 to 30 percent of the vote in polls among the roughly 25 percent of Americans who identify as Republican. (That’s something like 6 to 8 percent of the electorate overall, or about the same share of people who think the Apollo moon landings were faked.) As the rest of the field consolidates around him, Trump will need to gain additional support to win the nomination. That might not be easy, since some Trump actions that appeal to a faction of the Republican electorate may alienate the rest of it. Trump’s favorability ratings are middling among Republicans (and awful among the broader electorate).

Trump will also have to get that 25 or 30 percent to go to the polls. For now, most surveys cover Republican-leaning adults or registered voters, rather than likely voters. Combine that with the poor response rates to polls and the fact that an increasing number of polls use nontraditional sampling methods, and it’s not clear how much overlap there is between the people included in these surveys and the relatively small share of Republicans who will turn up to vote in primaries and caucuses.

But there’s another, more fundamental problem. That 25 or 30 percent of the vote isn’t really Donald Trump’s for the keeping. In fact, it doesn’t belong to any candidate. If past nomination races are any guide, the vast majority of eventual Republican voters haven’t made up their minds yet.

It can be easy to forget it if you cover politics for a living, but most people aren’t paying all that much attention to the campaign right now. Certainly, voters are consuming some campaign-related news. Debate ratings are way up, and Google searches for topics related to the primaries1 have been running slightly ahead of where they were at a comparable point of the 2008 campaign, the last time both parties had open races. But most voters have a lot of competing priorities. Developments that can dominate a political news cycle, like Trump’s frenzied 90-minute speech in Iowa earlier this month, may reach only 20 percent or so of Americans.

We can look deeper into the Google search data for some evidence of this. In the chart below, I’ve tracked the aggregate share of primary-related searches in the 2008 and 2012 presidential cycles, based on the number of weeks before or after the Iowa caucuses.2 As you can see, public attention to the race starts out quite slow and only gradually accelerates — until just a week or two before Iowa, when it begins to boom. Interest continues to accelerate as Iowa, New Hampshire and the Super Tuesday states vote, before slowing down again once the outcome of the race has become clear.



To repeat: This burst of attention occurs quite late — usually when voters are days or weeks away from their primary or caucus. At this point in the 2012 nomination cycle, 10 weeks before the Iowa caucuses, only 16 percent of the eventual total of Google searches had been conducted. At this point in the 2008 cycle, only 8 percent had been. Voters are still in the early stages of their information-gathering process.

But maybe you don’t trust the Google search data. That’s OK; exit polls like this one have historically asked voters in Iowa and New Hampshire when they made their final decision on how to vote. These exit polls find that voters take their sweet time. In Iowa, on average, only 35 percent of voters had come to a final decision before the final month of the campaign. And in New Hampshire, only 29 percent had. (Why is the fraction lower in New Hampshire than in Iowa? Probably because voters there are waiting for the Iowa results before locking in their choice. In fact, about half of New Hampshire voters make up their minds in the final week of the campaign.)

By comparison, voters decide much earlier in general elections. In Ohio in 2012, for example, 76 percent of voters had settled on Mitt Romney or Barack Obama by the end of September. This is why it’s common to see last-minute surges or busts in nomination races (think Rick Santorum or Howard Dean), but not in general elections.

If even by New Year’s Day (a month before the Iowa caucuses, which are scheduled for Feb. 1) only about one-third of Iowa voters will have come to their final decision, the percentage must be even lower now — perhaps something like 20 percent of voters are locked in. When you see an Iowa poll, you should keep in mind that the real situation looks something more like this:


CANDIDATE

SUPPORT IN IOWA

Undecided 80%
Donald Trump 5
Ben Carson 4
Ted Cruz 3
Marco Rubio 2
Jeb Bush 1
Carly Fiorina 1
Mike Huckabee 1
Chris Christie 1

So, could Trump win? We confront two stubborn facts: first, that nobody remotely like Trump has won a major-party nomination in the modern era.4 And second, as is always a problem in analysis of presidential campaigns, we don’t have all that many data points, so unprecedented events can occur with some regularity. For my money, that adds up to Trump’s chances being higher than 0 but (considerably) less than 20 percent. Your mileage may vary. But you probably shouldn’t rely solely on the polls to make your case; it’s still too soon for that.

[jeaniebueller]

The other thing too, looking at how Carly Fiorina called trump out in one of the debates for his comments about her, is that Trump can be shut down. They are acting like he is some kind of mastermind debater. HE ISN'T. He name calls, fearmongers and throws out juvenile insults. He has no feasible plan for anything. HRC could shut him down in seconds. What are they so scared of?

[ESF]

downtoearth - that's a great read. I didn't realize that undecideds in the primaries were so high at this point.

I do think that Trump supporters are likely to be unreliable voters. I have no actual evidence to support this, just my general sense.