NCEPR-Need help re: adoption questions

[aewithaq]

michelle , my parents are now divorced, but rape is a possibility I had not considered.

[msmerymac]

Dec 14, 2015 12:37:46 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Look, I don't know where your sister works, but I do know that even though my own LinkedIn and Facebook say where I work, actually getting my work number would be really, really difficult. Hence why I'm concerned about that part.

This is not a challenge to those of you who know me.

I used to occasionally use my work number as a second phone number when needed. Or there are certain forms that ask for work #. I don't think mine would be hard to track down at all. Those sites where you pay for contact information have it, I'm sure. 

[Michelle]

Dec 14, 2015 12:46:00 GMT -5 aewithaq said:

michelle , my parents are now divorced, but rape is a possibility I had not considered.

Well I hope that isn't the case, but if you pushed, especially if she really did adopt out a baby for this reason, it could irreparably destroy your relationship.

If the lady has called after 15 years, she will probably reach out again. Handle it if she does. But until then, respect that it may be a mistake, and if it isn't a mistake, it was your mom's private issue when she had a life before you. 

[cattledogkisses]

I think part of the reason why you're getting a bit of a hard time here is that none of your posts have indicated that you're considering your mother's feelings at all about reopening a past chapter of her life. That's something you really need to consider or you risk irreparably damaging your relationship with her.

[aewithaq]

My mother and I don't have a relationship. There is a history of abuse. If it sounds like I'm having trouble caring about her feelings, it's because I am. Rape or incest are literally the only two situations I can think of in which her desire for privacy overrides this girl's desire to know about her birth mother and biological family. I had not thought about that before because until recently, I thought my dad was the father and that we were full siblings.

I am listening, I promise. I am not heartless. Notice we did not immediately confront her as soon as we got the call.  

[StrawberryBlondie]

I'm not saying avoid any interaction with this girl, but if it's true and your mom gave a kid up for adoption, it was for a reason. It's not your place to be the arbiter of that reason's validity.

Nothing you've posted still indicates you want anything other than to catch your mom in a lie. That's a really shitty reason to "need closure," no matter your relationship.

[aewithaq]

Dec 14, 2015 18:56:00 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I'm not saying avoid any interaction with this girl, but if it's true and your mom gave a kid up for adoption, it was for a reason. It's not your place to be the arbiter of that reason's validity.

Nothing you've posted still indicates you want anything other than to catch your mom in a lie. That's a really shitty reason to "need closure," no matter your relationship.

I'm not sure what you want me to say. I didn't spell it out because it seems obvious to me why someone would want to talk to their sibling they never met.  I want to talk to my sister because I want to talk to my sister, I want to hear her story and know who she is.  I want to talk to her because thinking of the pain she experienced when my parents lied to her and hung up on her breaks my heart.  I want to answer her questions about our health and our grandparents, including one who only died within the last year and possibly lived an hour from her. I'd maybe even like to meet if that's where things go. I'm not going to tell you that I want a relationship because this isn't the Dr. Phil show or a Lifetime movie, I have no idea what is going to happen. As others have shared their experiences, these things are very unpredictable. It is completely valid for any of us or all of us to exchange info and then simply move on. That's a valid thing to do, and being ok with that possibility in light of the experiences shared here and everything rlde I've read isn't evidence that the only reason I want to talk to her is to "catch my mom in a lie." I've had opportunity to ask her or out her or whatever you want to call it and my sister and I chose not to. A year ago we had the opportunity to ask family and family friends at a funeral in the town where she went to high school and we did not.  That is not what we are about.

[heyjude]

I feel like I am missing something. Your mom says this is not her bio child. She lied about unspecified, presumably unrelated things, in the past. But what makes you think she is lying about this particular thing now? And why don't you just ask her for more details?

"Remember that person who claimed she was your daughter? Well she tracked down sis. What's really going on here?"

If you can't talk to your mom about this basic part of the story then I don't think this is a thread you should be pulling at, especially behind her back.

And frankly, this person could actually have her facts wrong. Right?

I won't lie though. If I had some reason to believe I had unknown half sibling out there, I'd be very curious. So I don't fault your normal curiosity.

[aewithaq]

Dec 14, 2015 19:31:06 GMT -5 heyjude said:

And frankly, this person could actually have her facts wrong. Right?

I don't know, I keep forgetting this piece and then coming back to it and I was hoping someone with first hand adoption experience would speak to it. I mean, 15 years ago, from a technology standpoint, I don't know what was available to her.  I imagine she turned 18, got legal access to her adoption records, which would have been what, a birth certificate with her birth mother's name? And web searches weren't nearly as powerful back then, you couldn't just Google someone 15 years ago (Ask Jeeves, anyone?) so I imagine the information she had came from a background check. She named off several cities we had lived in and knew my mom's date of birth.  

[heyjude]

Dec 14, 2015 19:49:48 GMT -5 aewithaq said:

Dec 14, 2015 19:31:06 GMT -5 heyjude said:

And frankly, this person could actually have her facts wrong. Right?

I don't know, I keep forgetting this piece and then coming back to it and I was hoping someone with first hand adoption experience would speak to it. I mean, 15 years ago, from a technology standpoint, I don't know what was available to her.  I imagine she turned 18, got legal access to her adoption records, which would have been what, a birth certificate with her birth mother's name? And web searches weren't nearly as powerful back then, you couldn't just Google someone 15 years ago (Ask Jeeves, anyone?) so I imagine the information she had came from a background check. She named off several cities we had lived in and knew my mom's date of birth.  

Weren't adoption records sealed back in the day? Weren't most adoptions closed? Open adoptions are more of a newish thing, right? Can a child of a closed adoption just get her bio mom's name if the adoption was closed?

[sushi]

Dec 14, 2015 20:04:08 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Dec 14, 2015 19:49:48 GMT -5 aewithaq said:

I don't know, I keep forgetting this piece and then coming back to it and I was hoping someone with first hand adoption experience would speak to it. I mean, 15 years ago, from a technology standpoint, I don't know what was available to her.  I imagine she turned 18, got legal access to her adoption records, which would have been what, a birth certificate with her birth mother's name? And web searches weren't nearly as powerful back then, you couldn't just Google someone 15 years ago (Ask Jeeves, anyone?) so I imagine the information she had came from a background check. She named off several cities we had lived in and knew my mom's date of birth.  

Weren't adoption records sealed back in the day? Weren't most adoptions closed? Open adoptions are more of a newish thing, right? Can a child of a closed adoption just get her bio mom's name if the adoption was closed?

They still are. I knew my birth mom. My birth certificate doesn't acknowledge her at all. The adoption went through in 1992, and I was born in 1980.

Oh not bitter

[marriedfilingjoint]

Dec 14, 2015 20:09:06 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

Dec 14, 2015 19:30:17 GMT -5 aewithaq said:

I'm not sure what you want me to say. I didn't spell it out because it seems obvious to me why someone would want to talk to their sibling they never met.  I want to talk to my sister because I want to talk to my sister, I want to hear her story and know who she is.  I want to talk to her because thinking of the pain she experienced when my parents lied to her and hung up on her breaks my heart.  I want to answer her questions about our health and our grandparents, including one who only died within the last year and possibly lived an hour from her. I'd maybe even like to meet if that's where things go. I'm not going to tell you that I want a relationship because this isn't the Dr. Phil show or a Lifetime movie, I have no idea what is going to happen. As others have shared their experiences, these things are very unpredictable. It is completely valid for any of us or all of us to exchange info and then simply move on. That's a valid thing to do, and being ok with that possibility in light of the experiences shared here and everything rlde I've read isn't evidence that the only reason I want to talk to her is to "catch my mom in a lie." I've had opportunity to ask her or out her or whatever you want to call it and my sister and I chose not to. A year ago we had the opportunity to ask family and family friends at a funeral in the town where she went to high school and we did not.  That is not what we are about.

But you should have spelled it out because your initial post read like you just wanted to prove your parents had lied. 

I don't think you should have been asking around about this at a funeral or elsewhere for the same reasons people listed earlier. You might let your mom know this woman has reached out to your sister again and give her a chance to explain if there's something to explain, but ultimately you can't make her confess this secret if she did give a child up for adoption. If you must know for peace of mind you could always do DNA testing. 

She said they didn't ask around at the funeral though, right? Unless that was a typo?

[aewithaq]

Dec 14, 2015 20:19:24 GMT -5 sushi said:

Dec 14, 2015 20:04:08 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Weren't adoption records sealed back in the day? Weren't most adoptions closed? Open adoptions are more of a newish thing, right? Can a child of a closed adoption just get her bio mom's name if the adoption was closed?

They still are. I knew my birth mom. My birth certificate doesn't acknowledge her at all. The adoption went through in 1992, and I was born in 1980.

Oh not bitter

Wow.

Do you know what records become open or available to the adoptee at age 18? I know it varies by state but I imagine there are some similarities?

[mouse]

How common is your mom's name? I mean, if it's the equivalent of Jane Smith, I'd be leaning towards mistaken identity. If she latched on to a name early on, I'm not sure the accuracy of the cities she's lived in mean anything.

Being estranged from my mom, I get wanting at least the possibility of normal relatives. I also have found there's some comfort in knowing how far the lies go. Not even vindication (I know my mom's damaged and damaging), but just to be able to step back and feel you're seeing most of the picture. It's hard to accept what you don't know.

[aewithaq]

Dec 14, 2015 20:50:02 GMT -5 mouse said:

How common is your mom's name? I mean, if it's the equivalent of Jane Smith, I'd be leaning towards mistaken identity. If she latched on to a name early on, I'm not sure the accuracy of the cities she's lived in mean anything.

Being estranged from my mom, I get wanting at least the possibility of normal relatives. I also have found there's some comfort in knowing how far the lies go. Not even vindication (I know my mom's damaged and damaging), but just to be able to step back and feel you're seeing most of the picture. It's hard to accept what you don't know.

My mother's name is uncommon, but I think your point still stands. If she decided "Apricot AE's Mom" was her birth mother early in the search then that's probably who she did a background check on.

Thank you for getting it and explaining it better than I could. I don't know how to convey what I think is relevant regarding my strained family situation without going into too much detail or leaving anything important out because I've lived it for 32 years. But you pretty much nailed it.

[ESF]

Dec 14, 2015 20:34:37 GMT -5 aewithaq said:

Dec 14, 2015 20:19:24 GMT -5 sushi said:

They still are. I knew my birth mom. My birth certificate doesn't acknowledge her at all. The adoption went through in 1992, and I was born in 1980.

Oh not bitter

Wow.

Do you know what records become open or available to the adoptee at age 18? I know it varies by state but I imagine there are some similarities?

My husband was adopted at birth and I guarantee you there is no birth certificate anywhere on the planet that has his birth mother's name on it. Nor are there records that he could suddenly get at 18.

I'm pretty sure names of birth mothers are never available anywhere in any state, both now and then. The birth mother can opt for disclosure at the time of birth (ie an open adoption), but that's through the agency. There is not, to my knowledge, a state database of info on adoptions that kids get a key too when they turn 18. I've never heard of state where by state law, adoptions are closed for 18 years only. I would be SHOCKED if that was the case in any state. These are medical records, states can't just give them out because an 18 year old wants it.

The idea that you can get info at 18 most likely comes from the agencies. I can't imagine they'd answer any questions for a minor. If however, an adult asks them information and the biological mother had consented to sharing that info, then they'd probably provide the info they are obligated to give.

[gpw]

ESF, huh. My H is adopted, too. I have no idea about his birth certificate. I know he tracked down his bio mom, though. He doesn't speak to her anymore, though.

[ESF]

Dec 14, 2015 21:22:46 GMT -5 gpw said:

ESF, huh. My H is adopted, too. I have no idea about his birth certificate. I know he tracked down his bio mom, though. He doesn't speak to her anymore, though.

Interesting.

My h has a relationship with his bio family. His bio mom got prenatal care and gave birth at the hospital where his mother worked. Some of the other nurses knew she was looking to adopt, and his bio mom's last name is memorable. So when he decided at 22 to look for them, his parents knew the last name and general region where they lived. She had made it clear to her entire extended family that she wanted to be found (so much so that she did not change her name when she married years later). There were no records for H to consult, he just got lucky.

[hopecounts]

Dec 14, 2015 20:34:37 GMT -5 aewithaq said:

Dec 14, 2015 20:19:24 GMT -5 sushi said:

They still are. I knew my birth mom. My birth certificate doesn't acknowledge her at all. The adoption went through in 1992, and I was born in 1980.

Oh not bitter

Wow.

Do you know what records become open or available to the adoptee at age 18? I know it varies by state but I imagine there are some similarities?

 Basically nothing from that era, most states that have implemented opennes did not do it retroactively.
She would only have the adoption paperwork/legal forms but they would in all likelihood have her birthparent(s) names redacted and blacked out now there are ways around this.
also keep in mind that if she was given up through a maternity home the possibility of misinformation either intentionally on the part of the home or as a means of hiding their identity on the part of the birth mom means most info should be taken with a grain of salt unless verified by multiple parties. 

[moolarkey]

If you and your siblings have linked in, check to see who has been looking at your profiles recently. You might see a name pop up that could be her - long shot but something to look at.

My mom had a very close friend that knew she and her twin and been adopted as toddlers. I think she also knew she had siblings. I don't remember when she first started searching for them but she wasn't finding anything. Her twin was against the search. She got a call one day from a young woman who believed her dad was a brother to my mom's friend. They were able to confirm it was so, sadly the brother (who had wanted to find his little twin sisters) had died the year before. BUT... this young woman knew of at least 1 or 2 other siblings that she'd found. The mystery deepened.

For about the next year, at least once a month my mom would tell me that Dorothy had uncovered another siblings, most lived with 15 minutes. There were 12 children in all, all but 1 was still alive.

The parents were strict Catholic, no birth control. They were very poor and couldn't afford all these kids. They kept the 4 oldest and raised them but took all others to our country children's home and relinquished them all for adoption. The twins were adopted together, 2 other brothers were adopted together and the rest put up for adoptions were single adoptions. 1 or 2 lived a several states away but most were still in our county.

They started getting together monthly, since then a couple of the oldest have passed away. I believe the other twin has never attended (last I heard) or met any of them, she felt it was an insult to the parents that raised them. I think possibly 1 other hasn't shown interest in meeting the siblings.

It's such a crazy story but it was so interesting while it was going on to find where they found siblings and and details of their lives. How often they'd come so close to meeting, the people they all knew in common.

[aewithaq]

]Thank you for sharing this with me. I'm sorry [about the bad stuff] but I'm so glad you [good stuff]. That would be the best I could hope for but I'm trying not to get my hopes up.

[aewithaq]

I got a "people are looking at your LinkedIn profile" email
This morning and that's where my mind immediately went. It was recruiters. I've never been so dissapointed to have recruiters looking at my profile.

[aewithaq]

So only non-identifying info was available to her when she turned 18. Does anyone have any idea how she would have started a search on a closed adoption? ESF sunny hopecounts ?

[hopecounts]

There are a few possibilities.1) someone goofed and missed a name/part of a name in the records
2) the agency/home is defunct and she got ahold of the records one way or another
3) somebody knows someone who knows type situation (i.e. The maternity nurse knows the family for example)
Some people have washed the redacted records to remove the black marker.

[sunny]

people talk. that's been my personal experience.

[heyjude]

All this talk about what could a person from a closed adoption know is kinda pointless. OP you are dancing around the elephant in the room. Go straight to the literal source. Talk to your mom.

[ESF]

Dec 14, 2015 23:07:07 GMT -5 aewithaq said:

So only non-identifying info was available to her when she turned 18. Does anyone have any idea how she would have started a search on a closed adoption? ESF sunny hopecounts ?

Any number of ways. Memories her parents had. Memories of neighbors, families, friends. Talking to people at the hospital. Figuring out what agency it was and talking to them.

[ESF]

Dec 14, 2015 22:04:43 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

I would want to know if I had another sibling out there. I think you should try to talk to your mom. I disagree with the thought process that this is not your box to open. If this person is your mother's child then she is your blood and in my opinion, you have every right to know her and who she is. Good luck.

With all due respect, GTFO with this.

This was the birth mother's choice. She chose to keep it a secret, and if it is her mother, is continuing to choose to keep it a secret. Her kids absolutely do not have a right to invade her privacy because they have decided that matching DNA have special meaning to them. I mean, come on. Blood relationships only have the meaning you give them, they are not magic. No fucking way do kids have the moral justification to trample through her past on this basis alone.

If you are pro-choice, that means respecting the woman's choices, which includes her choice to keep her reproductive history private. If you are pro-life, and want to further diminish the choices available to a woman by taking away what little autonomy left to her by saying other people can override her decision to keep her reproductive history a secret because they have decided that DNA matters to them, well, I don't even know what to say to that.

[sushi]

My case is different in that my birth mom died, then later my step monster formally adopted me. My understanding is that my original certificate was either destroyed or sealed, and then I was reissued a new one. Nothing happened when I was 18.

[aewithaq]

Dec 15, 2015 1:35:05 GMT -5 ESF said:

If you are pro-choice, that means respecting the woman's choices, which includes her choice to keep her reproductive history private. If you are pro-life, and want to further diminish the choices available to a woman by taking away what little autonomy left to her by saying other people can override her decision to keep her reproductive history a secret because they have decided that DNA matters to them, well, I don't even know what to say to that.

[


Shit, you are right. I hadn't thought of it that way.