Changing preschools

[Deleted]

So I realize that there will always be little fights and whatnot at school, but there's a boy that's consistently aggressive in DS's preschool class. (DS just turned 4 and all the other kids are 3). I was on the fence about sending DS to the 3's or 4's group (he's right on the cutoff with a December birthday) and chose 3's because his social skills need work. We don't know many other kids so preschool is his main chance to play with kids.

Anyway, DS has told me before that he's scared of this other kid (let's say K) and that's he's rough and rude. I've witnessed the kid hit and scratch other kids and the teacher. Today he scratched DS on the neck, and it's a nasty scratch. I asked the teacher what was happening before DS got hurt, and she said it was completely out of nowhere. They were in line for the bathroom, K turned around and scratched DS, unprovoked, then hit another kid.

DS was really upset and scared at pickup. When K came close to him while they were getting dressed, DS yelled for DD to look out or K would hurt her.

If it was a one-time thing, I'd be less upset, but this is at least the 5th time that I know of that K has been talked to for hurting someone. 

WWYD? I'm thinking that since DS could technically be in the 4s group, maybe I'll move him? I just don't know. I feel like K has issues and there aren't the resources to deal with him, and I'm not ok with DS being scared to go to preschool.

Help! (Also thanks if you read this far!)

[Deleted]

Is k in the 3s class? Also, if he is, how soon until he's moved to the 4s?

[Deleted]

K is in the 3's (he's the youngest). They'll all stay as a group and go to 4's together next year, then kindy together. That's my worry. If I move DS to 4's now he'll be with a whole new group, but same room and same teacher, and go with the new group to kindy.

[Deleted]

Well...if your kid is better placed in a 3s group, you should not move him ahead to avoid one jerk. You shouldn't push your kid into a group he's not really ready for I mean (bc there will ALWAYS be "that kid" or "that coworker" you know?

That said, I would definitely DEFINITELY be asking the teacher what's going on, how is this being handled, make sure she knows this is really affecting your ds. (Not that she can go into great detail about another kid...but you'd like to know she sees the same things going on and that there IS a real plan in place to help this kid make good choices.) And of course you can teach ds all the coping skills (use your words, try to be a good friend, Ask an adult for help!) but really, I think I'd be having a chat with the teacher.

[cna]

Honestly, it really ticks me off that you (or anyone) should even have to consider moving your kid because some other kid has behavioral problems. The other boy's behavior should be addressed and you should be able to keep your son right where he is.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2016 22:10:59 GMT -5 cna said:

Honestly, it really ticks me off that you (or anyone) should even have to consider moving your kid because some other kid has behavioral problems. The other boy's behavior should be addressed and you should be able to keep your son right where he is.

Yeah this is where I am at, sorry you're dealing with that

[lala]

Well, I think kids should be in the age group they meet the cut off for - if that date matches kindergarten. Meaning if he is going to kinder in 2017 he should be in a 3s class now. Is he eligible for kinder next year? If he's a whole year older than these kids there will be differences.

Regardless - if this has been an ongoing issue what is the teacher doing to fix it? Being violent towards a student and a teacher is unacceptable. One time incident, maybe. But this doesn't seem to be. I would have a meeting with the teacher to discuss it before I do anything drastic.

I don't know why you'd leap to switching classes or schools if you haven't worked with the teacher and/or director on this?

[Deleted]

He is eligible for the 4s, and eligible for kindy in Sept of this year, which is why my mind kind of goes there (after talking to the teacher of course). The teacher reported the incident and I have a call scheduled for tomorrow with the person who runs the program. I'll definitely try to find out more and what the plan is.

I don't know, I guess I just don't feel like I can control this situation (aside from how I talk about it with DS) because the other kid clearly needs help and I'm not sure what they can realistically do, KWIM?

This is also all new to me. What would you expect the teacher to do in this situation? (I'm asking genuinely because I can't think of anything and it sounds like the aggressive acts come out of nowhere.)

[Deleted]

And I know the other kid and his mom have been talked with on several occasions, and I'm sure she's trying everything she can. So aside from having another teacher or aide in the room to support the kid with behavioural problems, I'm not sure what they can do.

[lala]

I would expect the teacher & director to make a plan. I would think at minimum that your he & your son would not be allowed to stand next to each other in line, be one on one at all.

Is it just your son or is he doing this to everyone?

If the school truly thinks he needs services or something extra then they need to facilitate that with his parents or find a place where he can get them.

I think the age situation is separate and you can talk to them about it in a different conversation. If you want to move him because that age group is better, then I would.

If the teacher & director do not find a solution then you might not have a choice.

All of that said, you've said its all unprovoked? Not like they're playing and the kid gets mad and reacts by hitting? Not that that's okay but it would be more developmentally appropriate.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Like PP, I definitely WOULD NOT move my kid to a different age group and therefor have them start kindy at a different time because of another child's behavior. That decision needs to be made solely on your ds and his readiness for kindy. If you feel strongly that you want him to start kindy next fall then moving him would potentially solve this problem too, but again like others said, whose to say there won't be a child with behavioral problems in the 4's class too?

If you don't think he's ready to start kindy next fall, I absolutely would not move him to the 4's class. I would work with him on standing up for himself, like telling K, don't do that, it hurts, along with talking to the teachers about your concerns.

[quesyrah]

I would push the director to do something about the offending kid.

However, if it was truly a situation of my kid constantly being hurt and bothered, I would move him. Not to a class he wasn't ready for, but to another preschool.

Sure there will always be THAT kid but at least for my kid, there is a world of difference in what he could deal with at 3 in preschool vs 5.5 almost 6 in Kinder.

I would not expect my 3 year old to just deal because there will always be that kid.

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 7:25:46 GMT -5 lala said:

I would expect the teacher & director to make a plan. I would think at minimum that your he & your son would not be allowed to stand next to each other in line, be one on one at all.

Is it just your son or is he doing this to everyone?

If the school truly thinks he needs services or something extra then they need to facilitate that with his parents or find a place where he can get them.

I think the age situation is separate and you can talk to them about it in a different conversation. If you want to move him because that age group is better, then I would.

If the teacher & director do not find a solution then you might not have a choice.

All of that said, you've said its all unprovoked? Not like they're playing and the kid gets mad and reacts by hitting? Not that that's okay but it would be more developmentally appropriate.

Thanks lala. My son's locker is right beside the other boy's locker. This is the first time my son has been hurt, but the kid has hurt others. And yes, it was completely unprovoked for both my son and the other kid that K hurt yesterday. They weren't playing or even talking. The teacher said that K just turned around in line and scratched my son. I'm not sure the context of the other times, but I witnessed K hitting and scratching the teacher (because she asked him to come to the carpet to sit where they sit for pickup.) I think he needs extra services because he can barely talk (his mother even told me that when it was his turn for show and tell.) He growls a lot. 

I'm not sure about moving my son to the 4's but he meets the cutoff, and academically he's completely ready. The reason I put him in the 3's was for social skills. But I don't think he's learning great social skills there. So it was something I was struggling with before this happened, and this was kind of a nudge towards opening that conversation again. I would never do anything without talking with the teachers first and making sure DS was ready.

[vettymama]

Rddsswaw

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Jan 27, 2016 11:10:44 GMT -5 @leftie22 said:

Jan 27, 2016 7:25:46 GMT -5 lala said:

I would expect the teacher & director to make a plan. I would think at minimum that your he & your son would not be allowed to stand next to each other in line, be one on one at all.

Is it just your son or is he doing this to everyone?

If the school truly thinks he needs services or something extra then they need to facilitate that with his parents or find a place where he can get them.

I think the age situation is separate and you can talk to them about it in a different conversation. If you want to move him because that age group is better, then I would.

If the teacher & director do not find a solution then you might not have a choice.

All of that said, you've said its all unprovoked? Not like they're playing and the kid gets mad and reacts by hitting? Not that that's okay but it would be more developmentally appropriate.

I'm not sure about moving my son to the 4's but he meets the cutoff, and academically he's completely ready. The reason I put him in the 3's was for social skills. But I don't think he's learning great social skills there. So it was something I was struggling with before this happened, and this was kind of a nudge towards opening that conversation again. I would never do anything without talking with the teachers first and making sure DS was ready.

I would not move if he needs the social skills work. The most important part of preschool is not academics but social and emotional growth. I wouldn't move a brand new four to a group of kids who are nearing five and k bound in the fall. I would give the school a chance to figure it out with the aggressive child and either wait it out or move to another threes program.

[lala]

To clarify I think the issue of the class he's in is completely separate. All kids in preschool need to work on social skills, it's the whole point. Im surprised they let you put him in a class that's younger than him without a discussion.

But like I said, I'm a fan of following cut offs and not red shirting.

Leftie, let us know what they say about K lashing out. I would think since it's not new behavior that they have got to make a plan and figure it out - if not that reflects poorly on the director & school.

[quesyrah]

Okay I admit to just having skimmed. He's with the younger kids? No, move him to the 4s.

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2016 12:27:37 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

Okay I admit to just having skimmed. He's with the younger kids? No, move him to the 4s.

He's right on the cutoff - his birthday is Dec 10th and the cutoff is Dec 31st. So it was either have him as the oldest in the 3's, or the youngest in the 4's. Either way there's going to be a big age gap between him and the others. 

ETA - we did talk to the teachers about which class to put him in, but it was before they really knew DS, aside from meet and greet and orientation. They said they would go with the 3's because it gives DS more time to learn social skills etc. (Based on general info, not knowing DS very well.) We were going to discuss it later and see if DS could/should move up, but until now DS seemed happy so I had no reason to doubt the decision until now.

[amynumbers]

I am with lala -- our school has an October 1 cut off date, but almost everyone follows the September 1 cut off of the local districts.  My November birthday 5 year old is in the 4s class, and will head to K next year a few months shy of 6.

That other kid sounds like he needs some assistance, or at the bare minimum an evaluation or behavioral plan.  Is the school doing that, or treating him as "bad" and a "jerk"? Because if they aren't recognizing that is necessary for a child that age, i would say just pull your kid flat out -- they have no clue what they are doing.

[Kcthepouchh8r]

I have not heard of a dec 31st cutoff since the 80s. I thought most schools did September or October 1 at the very latest. I would never send my kid who would be four for nearly half the school year (especially a boy) to kindergarten unless he was a SSS and super advanced in social and emotional development.

[Deleted]

I talked to the director today and she said they're very aware of the issues, and she's calling all the parents to let them know that they have a plan in place. There's going to be a second teacher in the class at all times, and specifically shadowing K. She told me to let her know directly if my DS has any issues with being nervous about going to preschool or having a locker right next to K, and we can work out something. Apparently there are two kids they have a plan for.

If I don't see an improvement in the group, I'll probably move DS to a different preschool. I'm just not willing to pay to send him somewhere if he's going to be seeing aggressive behavior every day. I know there will always be "that" kid, but 2 aggressive kids in a group of 9 is just too many for me, if there's no improvement.

I'm going to see how it goes from here, I guess. I'm going to have a separate meeting about what group DS would fit better in, unrelated to this incident.

Thanks for your input, everyone!

[lala]

I'm glad they seem to be handling it and have a plan.

Side question, you said they're adding a second teacher to help - does that mean only one teacher has been there with 9 3 year olds?

[lala]

Jan 27, 2016 16:27:10 GMT -5 Kcthepouchh8r said:

I have not heard of a dec 31st cutoff since the 80s. I thought most schools did September or October 1 at the very latest. I would never send my kid who would be four for nearly half the school year (especially a boy) to kindergarten unless he was a SSS and super advanced in social and emotional development.

Every state has a different policy; some are state wide cut offs & some leave it up to the district. Most have finally moved to an earlier cut off or are in the process, a few have not. There's a chart around somewhere.

I would assume, and maybe I'm wrong, that a district with a 12.31 cut off is going to have to teach differently or in a different timeline than one with a sept 1 cut off?

I also assumed (lots of assuming!) that the preschool cut off matches, so in the 3s the kids had to be 3 by December 31st. All if the preschools I'm familiar with use the same cut off as the districts.

[Deleted]

I'm Canadian, maybe Dec 31st is standard here? Not sure. lala, yes apparently the ratio is 10 preschoolers to 1 teacher. I'm really glad they're adding another teacher. With getting them all out of their snowsuits (they play outside right after drop-off) and all the kids having to go to the bathroom together if 1 kid has to go, and behavior issues in the class, one teacher is obviously not enough!

[lala]

Jan 27, 2016 20:20:04 GMT -5 @leftie22 said:

I'm Canadian, maybe Dec 31st is standard here? Not sure. lala , yes apparently the ratio is 10 preschoolers to 1 teacher. I'm really glad they're adding another teacher. With getting them all out of their snowsuits (they play outside right after drop-off) and all the kids having to go to the bathroom together if 1 kid has to go, and behavior issues in the class, one teacher is obviously not enough!

Wow, yes, that's crazy! We would have 2 teachers in that class automatically or it would be out of ratio. I'm glad they are adding another teacher!

Re: the cut off, Canada is a whole over ball of wax I'm sure. Is the junior kindergarten thing national or just by province? 

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Jan 27, 2016 20:20:04 GMT -5 @leftie22 said:

I'm Canadian, maybe Dec 31st is standard here? Not sure. lala, yes apparently the ratio is 10 preschoolers to 1 teacher. I'm really glad they're adding another teacher. With getting them all out of their snowsuits (they play outside right after drop-off) and all the kids having to go to the bathroom together if 1 kid has to go, and behavior issues in the class, one teacher is obviously not enough!

Ah, that makes more sense re:the cutoff. Assuming Canadian K hasn't gone batshit crazy like the US I might ask his teachers what group he's suited to best.

That's also crazy 3 year old classrooms there can have a 10:1 ratio! My sons k class has 15 kids, A teacher, an aid, and usually at least one other staff member/volunteer most of the time.