Wawa - word. I admit some folks get on my last good nerve, but generally, I try my best not to engage in personal attacks unless I just can't hold back the fact that said person is a fucking asshole.
Everyone has a different opinion. The least we should be able to do is be mindful that we can agree to disagree.
Personally, I think the level of debate has gotten heated because we're right in the election season. As a result, media articles will have more slant, and we'll read them and feel more passionately about the issue. I think once the election has come and gone, then things should return to the previous civil nature.
And Sis is certainly not the only prominent poster here with right leaning abrasive tendencies.
We do this every year. This martyr parade.
It's a numbers game. We simply need more Rs.
It's not a martyr parade though, and it's not the intent. And I acknowledge that Rs/cons/ can be snarky or rude as well. But if we can discuss it rather than instantly reducing it to "stop being a martyr and suck it up," I think elevating the discourse would benefit everyone.
And seriously - if you step back and read through the top 20 thread titles, do you honestly feel a new R/con is going to see a welcome mat and jump right in? I counter there is no simple adding of Rs when the tenor here is not exactly inviting to them.
Again, I'm simply trying to discuss it. If you want to call me a martyr and move on, do it. I for one am more keen on evaluating my own perception, discern if it's valid, and act accordingly.
Oh so this *is* about how put upon cons are 'round these parts. We've been through the religious, the poor, the fat, the raped, the liberals and those forced to buy pink power tools, so I guess we are due.
And Sis is certainly not the only prominent poster here with right leaning abrasive tendencies.
We do this every year. This martyr parade.
It's a numbers game. We simply need more Rs.
That's not it. We've never had a lot of Rs on this board and for years this board was, for the most part, inviting and deep. I used to love debating here, even when I was either on my own in a thread, or only had a handful of people on the whole board who agreed with me. I don't care about the ratio of libs to cons. If we had a bunch of cons suddenly come over here, the board wouldn't magically go back to in-depth, substantive debates. It would just have even more name calling, shit stirring posts in which people snark talking points at each other. This place is a shadow of what it once was. It's sad.
Wawa - word. I admit some folks get on my last good nerve, but generally, I try my best not to engage in personal attacks unless I just can't hold back the fact that said person is a fucking asshole.
Everyone has a different opinion. The least we should be able to do is be mindful that we can agree to disagree.
Personally, I think the level of debate has gotten heated because we're right in the election season. As a result, media articles will have more slant, and we'll read them and feel more passionately about the issue. I think once the election has come and gone, then things should return to the previous civil nature.
this too. Election seasons is ramping up. Rhetoric in the news is ramping up. Of course it's gonna affect our debates.
I am also confuzzled, so I will answer what I think you are asking.
To me, GOP means people that identify as Republican and who are active supporters/members of the Republican party.
Cons are people that fall to the right of the political spectrum, no matter if they support the GOP or not.
I use GOP more when talking about the party as a whole, their platforms, candidates ect. I try to use Cons when talking about people on the board or IRL, but I know I have screwed up before.
Post by EllieArroway on Aug 29, 2012 13:19:20 GMT -5
I feel like the same thing happened in 08. People started getting emotional, civil discourse vanished, there was even a temporary board split where most of the cons and the libs who were looking for more reasonable debate moved to an off-board for a while. I think it's just the nature of the election cycle.
I feel like the same thing happened in 08. People started getting emotional, civil discourse vanished, there was even a temporary board split where most of the cons and the libs who were looking for more reasonable debate moved to an off-board for a while. I think it's just the nature of the election cycle.
Elections do bring out the worst, but in 08 it was mostly due to the influx of newbs. This time it's the regs. There's no point to making a temp board, there would hardly be anyone on it.
Post by EllieArroway on Aug 29, 2012 13:24:16 GMT -5
I also feel like we have all discussed the same topics so many times that we know how everyone is going to respond, and instead of actual debate we just end up with snarkiness from both sides. Maybe we need new blood?
It also might be that social issues seem to be taking the forefront of a lot of the discussions around here. And things like gay marriage and women's rights and abortion tend to create a much more visceral and strong reaction than, say, a discussion about the changes needed in the tax code.
I think this an excellent point.
And I'm really trying to think of the last awesome (IMO) debate, or at least an example.
Post by EllieArroway on Aug 29, 2012 13:27:49 GMT -5
I'm having a hard time thinking of the last good debate that we had. We need to discuss actual policy instead of just the hot-button issues that come up over and over. I always feel like I learn something from the policy debate threads.
I can't even remember the last time I debated a non-economic issue here, since even when I posted about Paul Ryan it was, in my mind, budget-related. I want to know how many other Conservatives on this board skip over almost all the thread titles and mostly just post in non-political ones.
I'll actually read many of the articles, but I rarely post in political posts. I usually vote Republican, but I don't agree with everything the party does. Both parties frequently disgust me. I am interested in politics, but don't know everything that is going on. I don't engage, because I don't feel equipped to take on a heavy debate.
Speaking of the tax code, honestly, the tax code is Unity Horse around here. We've all decided that we could live with variations of shutting down loopholes and going toward a flat tax. IIRC, even capital gains would be subject to the flat tax.
And if they change the code so that folks keep fancy loopholes and takeaway my mortgage deduction, I might have to join a militia or some shit. #don'ttreadonme
I think part of this is just natural though, for two main reasons.
1) we aren't that much better than CNN and the like. We like to talk about the stories that are more interesting, a bit more sensationalized, etc. Talking about Akin's comments is more interesting than talking about the proposal of a R congressman to cut something from the budget in terms of sheer entertainment. And yes, we come to this board to interact, to engage, and to learn, but also for entertainment.
2) it IS a numbers game. If there were more Rs here there would be more give and take and back and forth. I get that its hard to be one of the few conservatives on this board but I think there is a reason the conversations relating to fiscal conservativism (economy etc) are more interesting and civil and I think its because we have more fiscal cons on this board, even if some of them are pretty socially liberal. We also have some people here who are REALLY passionate about social issues and they skew strongly liberal.
Now the problem is that if some Rs dont feel like coming into a post, when one does wander in the Dems are accused of a "circle jerk." That minimum wage thread did start out putting conservatives on the defense, I fully admit, but I think had Y4M presented her reasoning earlier in the thread it would have shifted the conversation a bit more. Not saying it would have been puppies and rainbows, but it probably would have been more interesting and less of said 'circle jerk" for the first few pages. and then comments like that put the Dems on edge and it just goes on and on.
But anyway, if there were more conservatives on here who posted more regularly, I think the conversations would just naturally be a bit more balanced.
Finally, i'll say for myself, I get tired of saying "but not the cons on this board." When I say GOP I literally mean the politicians. I don't mean everyone who is registered Republican. I get that not every R agrees with every single thing a R politician says. But if we are discussing politics, on a message board, typing quickly, etc, i'm not really going to qualify every statement where I might say "Rs" or "GOP." So I feel that I should be able to say the GOP wants to do X based on teh actions of the politicians and not have to worry that every con on this board will feel attacked.
Finally, I think the fact that there was an R primary this year made the R bashing a bit more prevalent. We could pick apart the candidates, the endless debates and everything else. There wasn't muchto pick apart with the Democrats in terms of campaigning, and campaigning is kind of what is fun to pick apart (again, entertainment.) "did you see the debate, I can't believe Santorum said this, etc." There just wasn't as much there with the Dems. And as we are coming from those primaries into the general election, people are going to be heated about politics. It's natural.
Elections do bring out the worst, but in 08 it was mostly due to the influx of newbs. This time it's the regs. There's no point to making a temp board, there would hardly be anyone on it.
It also might be that social issues seem to be taking the forefront of a lot of the discussions around here. And things like gay marriage and women's rights and abortion tend to create a much more visceral and strong reaction than, say, a discussion about the changes needed in the tax code.
I agree. Social issues playing prominently is part of the tone shift. Not only are some people here completely incapable of debating social issues rationally, we can't even discuss prioritizing them rationally. It's ridiculous and pathetic.
I think this is a great question. Now I have to think about what my answer would be...
Was it here that the discussion about the defense budget and what cutting it would mean to our budget happened? It might have been an offshoot of a discussion about military wives or something. I thought that was a great discussion that didn't get too far into "STFU and also your mother is a whore" territory.
But that discussion (which I agree was interesting) came out of a thread that IIRC involved kuus and lucy getting snarky as shit with one of the military families regs.
I've actually enjoyed some of our gun debates. The first couple after Aurora were more frustrating than anything, but the last one I thought was pretty good.
Speaking of the tax code, honestly, the tax code is Unity Horse around here. We've all decided that we could live with variations of shutting down loopholes and going toward a flat tax. IIRC, even capital gains would be subject to the flat tax.
And if they change the code so that folks keep fancy loopholes and takeaway my mortgage deduction, I might have to join a militia or some shit. #don'ttreadonme
So maybe the Unity Horses have all been established through previous thoughtful debates and the board is left with nothing but the hot buttons?
And Sis is certainly not the only prominent poster here with right leaning abrasive tendencies.
We do this every year. This martyr parade.
It's a numbers game. We simply need more Rs.
That's not it. We've never had a lot of Rs on this board and for years this board was, for the most part, inviting and deep. I used to love debating here, even when I was either on my own in a thread, or only had a handful of people on the whole board who agreed with me. I don't care about the ratio of libs to cons. If we had a bunch of cons suddenly come over here, the board wouldn't magically go back to in-depth, substantive debates. It would just have even more name calling, shit stirring posts in which people snark talking points at each other. This place is a shadow of what it once was. It's sad.
I think the snark is on both sides, but otherwise I mostly agree with you. BUT i dont think the problem is THIS board, specifically. I think the reason that 'we' as a board tend to get snarky lately is because the most prominent GOPers in the political spectrum right now are VERY anti-abortion, anti-gay, crazycakes so a lot of the articles are about something stupid a prominent Republican has said.
I don't think its helpful to the REpublican party OR to the dynamics of the board.
I'm not sure if I can make a suggestion, but if I were a Conservative on this board, I'd probably post more 'normal' articles about the sane Republicans and that kind of stuff to counter the sh!t that gets posted about people like Akin.