I have a lovely time when I'm here and if I'm not having a lovely time I know where I can go. Shrugs.
We have this same convo all. The. Time. Seriously. Every year. If you don't like the board you have many options: (a) take a break (b) GBCNGBCN (c) make the board better place.
But blaming libs for the fact that you are not having fun here anymore isn't a good way to make the board a better place.
Apparently not, since you seem to have no desire to self-reflect and improve the discourse via your own posts. I'm barely here anymore as an active poster, so I have found something of a solution. I'm just wishing "aloud" here that the board was better so that more people wanted to be here. Not fewer.
Exactly. you and heyjude, et al can continue riding your sainted high horses around the board while the BSC religious nesties obliterate the civil tone and thoughtful debates we used to have.
Really? Because I remember hearing the exact same complaint from you and other R's during the 2008 election. Are we not supposed to notice or discuss all the race-baiting, anti-woman, anti-equality rhetoric that has dominated the GOP for the last 4+ years?
I'm sorry it feels like Rs personally are being picked on but, again, your ("your") beef should be with your party, not with those who dare to notice and object to their extreme positions. If you don't want your party to be seen as the party or far-right, religious, gay/woman/minority-hating nutjobs, then perhaps you should work on reclaiming your party from said nutjobs. Because right now, they are drowning out all the other voices in your party.
This isn't about the party. I'm talking about this board and how people on this board engage in debates. Yes I do remember complaining about this in the 08 election. Like a pp said we even started a new board to get away from inflammatory newbs, which IIRC you were one of. We should be able to discuss actual issues without lowering ourselves to "you nutjobs hate people" rhetoric. That doesn't inspire anyone to debate. It doesn't even inspire good snark.
Agreed. And I'm sure there is a Con or two (probably not too many more since there aren't but a few left in total) who is just as bad, but since I barely open any threads I don't know who they are.
If you hardly open any posts are you in the best position to call out the board?
All I'm saying is I'm not discounting the possibility that there is a cons CEPer who is just as bad. I lurk enough to know who the liberal ones are.
the only thing that annoys me to no end with con posters is the tendency to state "your argument is false and I refuse to acknowledge it" line that always comes up
yeah or more like - that problem doesn't actually exist - type reply. Which, hey, if that is the case, great, but it's left at that w/o any sort of explanation.
Conservatives in the board could try posting things they'd like to discuss more, maybe? Tef does, and Y4M sometimes. What do you want to discuss?
They may or may not get traction but maybe? Intl' news postings also don't get a ton (see any postings about Syria, Iran, etc) so it's not necessarily personal - sometimes people don't know what to say.
But blaming libs for the fact that you are not having fun here anymore isn't a good way to make the board a better place.
To be clear, I'm not blaming libs. I'm blaming snatches who happen to be liberal. And people I generally like who have gone ragey who happen to be liberal.
The fact that these people happen to be liberal is irrelevant to the conversation.
Apparently not, since you seem to have no desire to self-reflect and improve the discourse via your own posts. I'm barely here anymore as an active poster, so I have found something of a solution. I'm just wishing "aloud" here that the board was better so that more people wanted to be here. Not fewer.
You made the snarkiest post in this thread.
Yup. I'm genuinely frustrated at what the board's become and since I have to go soon I decided to call out some repeat offenders. I have no problem with you calling my post out.
Okay, I didn't read the prior posts, as I don't have time to go through 4 pages of them. However, I will say that I am a Republican (oh, the horror) and in no way is this board open/welcoming to opposing positions. I can pretty much predict all of the responses to a topic after just reading the topic. The scenarios are all the same.
So post something different. We talk about abortion/rape/race, etc because they are in the American news all the time. I think people here would love to talk about something else.
the only thing that annoys me to no end with con posters is the tendency to state "your argument is false and I refuse to acknowledge it" line that always comes up
yeah or more like - that problem doesn't actually exist - type reply. Which, hey, if that is the case, great, but it's left at that w/o any sort of explanation.
Can you be more specific? The threads I can think of where Cons just refused to engage were the ones that are basically name-calling "why do you hate people?" type of posts. What issues would you like to discuss that were blown off?
It would probably be best if everyone stopped holding everyone else to standards they don't hold themselves to.
Well, when you set the bar extraordinarily low, I guess you won't be disappointed.
See, DP, this is part of the problem. Every time you post I'm waiting to see what acerbic comment you will make. For every one post of yours that is well thought out and articulate, there are four that are just "nyah nyah I'm rubber you're glue" posts. You're one of the people I was referencing that is holding a can of gas ready to douse any thread.
Other than being part of the greatest/dumbest generation or just plain bigoted, I see no justification to vote republican these days. Hence, your frustration.
This is my honest, usually-hidden opinion. It's probably shared by a number of others. I'm actually not trying to offend here, but it's a line of thinking I've not been able to escape and it may put into words a perception explaining the perpetual divide between liberals and... Whatever the fuck the rest of you are.
Okay, I didn't read the prior posts, as I don't have time to go through 4 pages of them. However, I will say that I am a Republican (oh, the horror) and in no way is this board open/welcoming to opposing positions. I can pretty much predict all of the responses to a topic after just reading the topic. The scenarios are all the same.
So post something different. We talk about abortion/rape/race, etc because they are in the American news all the time. I think people here would love to talk about something else.
I suggested this back on page 3!!
I think there are lots of non-American things that maybe wouldn't be so 'personal' that would make for great discussion. I would think that we could have some excellent conversations on Syria right now.
As far as best posts, I can't remember exactly which ones they were, but I do remember saying that I really did enjoy the debate. Funnily enough, I think they were budget debates which I don't even really get into.
The ones where we're all across the board are also fun, such as pay for fire dept. protection or watch your house burn down posts.
yeah or more like - that problem doesn't actually exist - type reply. Which, hey, if that is the case, great, but it's left at that w/o any sort of explanation.
Can you be more specific? The threads I can think of where Cons just refused to engage were the ones that are basically name-calling "why do you hate people?" type of posts. What issues would you like to discuss that were blown off?
I think it's just a numbers issue. The few Cons get inundated with outside perspectives, snarkiness, questions needing to be teased out within multiple paragraphs, etc. Admittedly, I find I have to hold back often since its easy to look like libs are "piling on" when we don't mean to. But then, there is no way to get to everyone's questions, and the libs feel like the cons "aren't answering" or "avoiding" which isn't true necessarily either, but its just that there are many people asking questions over multiple time zones, lol.
I think its also a factor that most of the handful of Cons we do have aren't able to sit in quite cubes/offices all day sneaking on to the boards.
Can you be more specific? The threads I can think of where Cons just refused to engage were the ones that are basically name-calling "why do you hate people?" type of posts. What issues would you like to discuss that were blown off?
I think years ago there was a post about measuring the happiness of our country, so kinda philosophical in nature and you just kept posting about our GDP and how that proved we were the happiest country in the world. And I really couldn't argue that, you know? When you fail to acknowledge that other factors exists outside of GDP
ETA: There was a more recent post where you basically told someone their question was false and you don't respond to false questions. I don't remember who it was since it wasn't me, but at the time I laughed and thought it was a stupid since her question wasn't false.
I remember the happiness stuff. That was an in-depth post about quantifying standards of living; it wasn't shrugged off as a non-starter. I didn't say nothing exists outside of GDP. I said it's impossible to quantify emotions like happiness since then can exist under any economic system or government. I guess we remember that thread differently. Next time feel free to call me out when it happens. Re: your ETA I honestly don't remember saying that to anyone except when I thought I was question was basically name-calling. If you have a link I'll check it out.
Other than being part of the greatest/dumbest generation or just plain bigoted, I see no justification to vote republican these days. Hence, your frustration.
This is my honest, usually-hidden opinion. It's probably shared by a number of others. I'm actually not trying to offend here, but it's a line of thinking I've not been able to escape and it may put into words a perception explaining the perpetual divide between liberals and... Whatever the fuck the rest of you are.
Well, when you set the bar extraordinarily low, I guess you won't be disappointed.
See, DP, this is part of the problem. Every time you post I'm waiting to see what acerbic comment you will make. For every one post of yours that is well thought out and articulate, there are four that are just "nyah nyah I'm rubber you're glue" posts. You're one of the people I was referencing that is holding a can of gas ready to douse any thread.
OK, I'll take that. And I'll work on it.
I'll also add that Emmy and I have discoursed about this before - I set the bar higher for what I'd like to see as the tone of our discussions, and she thinks I'm crazy since it's just the internet. So there's the backstory on that, and she & I will have to continue to agree to disagree, since she insists that being rude and mean is a-OK on the internet, regardless of forum. I disagree.
Can you be more specific? The threads I can think of where Cons just refused to engage were the ones that are basically name-calling "why do you hate people?" type of posts. What issues would you like to discuss that were blown off?
I think it's just a numbers issue. The few Cons get inundated with outside perspectives, snarkiness, questions needing to be teased out within multiple paragraphs, etc. Admittedly, I find I have to hold back often since its easy to look like libs are "piling on" when we don't mean to. But then, there is no way to get to everyone's questions, and the libs feel like the cons "aren't answering" or "avoiding" which isn't true necessarily either, but its just that there are many people asking questions over multiple time zones, lol.
I think its also a factor that most of the handful of Cons we do have aren't able to sit in quite cubes/offices all day sneaking on to the nest.
Good points. ETA: And speaking of not sitting in a cube, my kids are up so I have to go. I'm not ignoring any responses if there are any, just probably won't be able to get to them til later.
See, DP, this is part of the problem. Every time you post I'm waiting to see what acerbic comment you will make. For every one post of yours that is well thought out and articulate, there are four that are just "nyah nyah I'm rubber you're glue" posts. You're one of the people I was referencing that is holding a can of gas ready to douse any thread.
OK, I'll take that. And I'll work on it.
I'll also add that Emmy and I have discoursed about this before - I set the bar higher for what I'd like to see as the tone of our discussions, and she thinks I'm crazy since it's just the internet. So there's the backstory on that, and she & I will have to continue to agree to disagree, since she insists that being rude and mean is a-OK on the internet, regardless of forum. I disagree.
...and she's kind of a champion at it, but she owns it so I know to expect it. I have also seen her be an equal opportunity snark thrower. I think it transcends politics.
So post something different. We talk about abortion/rape/race, etc because they are in the American news all the time. I think people here would love to talk about something else.
I suggested this back on page 3!!
I think there are lots of non-American things that maybe wouldn't be so 'personal' that would make for great discussion. I would think that we could have some excellent conversations on Syria right now.
the problem with discussing things like syria is that we need an expert.
We can all debate gay marriage because we all understand the issue. We all pay taxes, so we can all talk about that. This applies to pretty much every domestic issue. But when it comes to complex forgien policy issues, without one or two really knowledgable posters to kinda lead the disussion we just all end up throwing up our hands and spouting platitudes.
think about when mx pops into a thread about developing nations. She tells us things we dont know. People ask questions. We discuss the answers. We learn. We debate. It's awesome. In a thread about development nations where mx doesn't pop in - we just all shake our heads sadly about how sad things are because so few of us know enough about the topic to really discuss it.
see also: the threads about the tsunami+nukes in japan and how much more intereting and engaging they were with actual information from Pamela.
There are lots of topics where we have an expert or two on hand to explain the underlying facts, which then allows us to have a real discussion. But on the ones where we're all just working from the news and googling? People are much less likely to particpate because most of us don't know enough to have an opinion and the chance of substantive discussion plummets.
Post by basilosaurus on Aug 29, 2012 14:27:52 GMT -5
I know I've contributed to negativity, and I do sincerely apologize. I went through a spate of angry drunk posting while H was gone, and I've realized that was not a good idea.
I'm like a pomeranian. If I perceive an insult, I tend to get all yappy about it, even if it was only the wind that enraged me. This is why, contrary to druid, I think blocking actually is useful. If I think someone acts more as a troll than an entertaining or engaging person, I'm better off not seeing it. Not necessarily because I'd be tempted to respond to a troll, but because it puts my mind into a negative mood where I'm more quick to rile up elsewhere.
But, my personality flaws aside, yes, there are some things I will never change my mind on. I'm not going to go anti-gay or anti-choice on anyone. I'm going to attack someone like Ryan for his far right stance. I don't ask cons to defend him because I think those views are indefensible.
Otherwise I think it's just a numbers issue. With more libs the likelihood that some are rude is higher. And the brain being what it is, we generalize that to go beyond the individual and categorize the group. So I see a few cons jumping in with "circle jerk" or saying Ryan's anti-choice bills don't count, and I think that cons don't want to engage in discussion which isn't fair. And I'm sure the reverse happens equally.