Stupid question about race (re: Jewish people)

[notsocreepylurker]

We were chatting at work yesterday about Obama nominating the supreme court replacement for Scalia. Since I had already read the thread on here I feel all knowing and mentioned how the Rs were shooting themselves in the foot for not even considering him because the nominee is a moderate white male.  My one coworker corrected me and said he is Jewish.  I replied but he is white - Jewish people are white. And he said no - Jewish people are semitic (? I can't remember the word he used exactly).  I said I had never seen that on a form when asking about race.  I also said religion isn't a race. He kept saying Jewish people are semitic (?) not white.

I admit I may be clueless here but I always assumed Jewish people were white (caucasian).  In this case is religion considered a race?

[ttt]

It's complicated, but Jewish isn't a race. There are white Jews and black Jews and Jews of all races. But most Jewish people are white - Ashkenazi Jews are white.

ETA "Semitic" people like Arabs are white too. But it also kind of shows you how useless a term "white" really is. 

EATA: this is an interesting article about whether Arabs should be considered white in the US: 


www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/07/arabs-white-150716110921150.html 

[DesertMoon]

Idk white is such a fluid term. Id say, my skin is white. I'm half ME but also half Chinese, native and Irish. I just look white with dark hair and dark eyes. Am I Asian, ya. Am i European yea, native, yea, Me, yea so idk what fucking color or box I need to be checking, it's so dumb.

[fortnightlily]

All the American Jews I grew up with consider themselves white.

[ChillyMcFreeze]

I think this guy has listened to too much Avenue Q.

Now there was a fine, upstanding black man.
Who?
Jesus Christ.
But.. Jesus was white.
No, Jesus was black.
No, I'm pretty sure Jesus was white.
Guys, guys! Jesus was Jewish!

[DesertMoon]

Mar 17, 2016 8:52:21 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

All the American Jews I grew up with consider themselves white.

Same, especially like a Jewish Italian or Polish Jew, I'd say they're white?

[Velar Fricative]

Jews can be of any race. As one example, Ethiopian Jews are a decent-sized minority in Israel.

And Judaism is a religion, but your ethnic background can be Jewish too. It's pretty interesting and (probably) unique. I can't explain it very well so hopefully others can jump in.

[mrsdewinter]

I'm Jewish and I'm white. Jews can be of any race and there are different Jewish ethnic groups. Most Jews, including in the US, are Ashkenazi, which means they have Central/Eastern European ancestry. Ashkenazi Jews are actually a genetically distinct group with certain markers and higher risk of carrying specific genetic diseases, so it's not just a religious group. Merrick Garland is Ashkenazi, so he is white (we have to remember that race and whiteness are social constructs that can change through time and place, they are not fixed biological realities).

I do think it's notable for SCOTUS that Garland is a religious minority, because it could affect the perspective he brings to cases like Hobby Lobby or Town of Greece vs Galloway. But he would be the fourth Jew currently on the court, so it's not like Jews are underrepresented there either.

[laterbloomer]

I looked up the definition of Semitic for fun


Se·mit·ic.

[səˈmidik]

ADJECTIVE

1.relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.

2.relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.


So it's got to do with language, similar to saying Latinos I guess.

[notsocreepylurker]

Thank you everyone! My coworker also kept mentioning how Jewish people are only 2% of the population but already have 2 or 3 spots as judges on the Supreme Court. I don't know what he was getting at - but it bothered me he kept correcting me when I said Merrick was white (he would say no he's Jewish).

[StrawberryBlondie]

Mar 17, 2016 10:56:10 GMT -5 notsocreepylurker said:

Thank you everyone! My coworker also kept mentioning how Jewish people are only 2% of the population but already have 2 or 3 spots as judges on the Supreme Court. I don't know what he was getting at - but it bothered me he kept correcting me when I said Merrick was white (he would say no he's Jewish).

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I'd say your coworker sounds at least a little anti-Semitic.

Yes, there's a fair amount of Jewish people on the Supreme Court. There's also a lot of Jewish lawyers. So what?

[bowies]

You've gotten some really great replies. As an anecdote, I had a friend who would be irked if someone identified her as Jewish because of her cultural ancestry. She didn't actively practice a religion. She would usually correct him/her and say she was Israeli.

[bowies]

Mar 17, 2016 11:04:50 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Mar 17, 2016 10:56:10 GMT -5 notsocreepylurker said:

Thank you everyone! My coworker also kept mentioning how Jewish people are only 2% of the population but already have 2 or 3 spots as judges on the Supreme Court. I don't know what he was getting at - but it bothered me he kept correcting me when I said Merrick was white (he would say no he's Jewish).

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I'd say your coworker sounds at least a little anti-Semitic.

Yes, there's a fair amount of Jewish people on the Supreme Court. There's also a lot of Jewish lawyers. So what?

Yeah I was getting this feeling too. "He's not like me."

Ugh. People.

[bronxgirl]

Mar 17, 2016 10:56:10 GMT -5 notsocreepylurker said:

Thank you everyone! My coworker also kept mentioning how Jewish people are only 2% of the population but already have 2 or 3 spots as judges on the Supreme Court. I don't know what he was getting at - but it bothered me he kept correcting me when I said Merrick was white (he would say no he's Jewish).

He's anti-Semitic and this is his coded language. Insisting that Jews can't be white is "othering". As pps have mentioned, Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all different races, ethnic groups and demographics.

ETA: This website gives a lot of information about Jews of all races: www.jewishmultiracialnetwork.org/

[bourbonfan]

Mar 17, 2016 9:40:25 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I looked up the definition of Semitic for fun


Se·mit·ic.

[səˈmidik]

ADJECTIVE

1.relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.

2.relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.


So it's got to do with language, similar to saying Latinos I guess.

I think you mean similar to saying Hispanic. Latino refers to being from Latin America. Ex. Brazilians are Latinos but not Hispanic since they speak Portuguese.

[laterbloomer]

Mar 17, 2016 14:01:54 GMT -5 bourbonfan said:

Mar 17, 2016 9:40:25 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I looked up the definition of Semitic for fun


Se·mit·ic.

[səˈmidik]

ADJECTIVE

1.relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.

2.relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.


So it's got to do with language, similar to saying Latinos I guess.

I think you mean similar to saying Hispanic. Latino refers to being from Latin America. Ex. Brazilians are Latinos but not Hispanic since they speak Portuguese.

LOL Then I've been misunderstanding Latino. Semitic too if it comes to that. I thought anti semitic was Jewish specific but by that definition it isn't.

[mrsdewinter]

Mar 17, 2016 14:04:11 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Mar 17, 2016 14:01:54 GMT -5 bourbonfan said:

I think you mean similar to saying Hispanic. Latino refers to being from Latin America. Ex. Brazilians are Latinos but not Hispanic since they speak Portuguese.

LOL Then I've been misunderstanding Latino. Semitic too if it comes to that. I thought anti semitic was Jewish specific but by that definition it isn't.

No, you were correct about what "anti-Semitic" means.  Nobody uses it to mean discrimination against people who speak a Semitic language.  It means discrimination against and persecution of Jews, specifically.

[notsocreepylurker]

Ashkenazi is what he used today. Maybe he used it yesterday too? I thought it was Semitic. He is an interesting kid (he's 21). Thinks minimum wage is too high, everyone should own all the guns they want, 9/11 didn't happen. I burn plenty of calories rolling my eyes at him daily.

[bronxgirl]

Mar 17, 2016 15:16:27 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Mar 17, 2016 8:33:48 GMT -5 notsocreepylurker said:

Yes, Jews are white.

^o)  Some Jews are white, not all.  As previously stated, Judaism is a religion, NOT a race and a Jew of color is just as much a Jew as a white Jew is.

[ttt]

Mar 17, 2016 15:16:27 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Mar 17, 2016 8:33:48 GMT -5 notsocreepylurker said:

We were chatting at work yesterday about Obama nominating the supreme court replacement for Scalia. Since I had already read the thread on here I feel all knowing and mentioned how the Rs were shooting themselves in the foot for not even considering him because the nominee is a moderate white male.  My one coworker corrected me and said he is Jewish.  I replied but he is white - Jewish people are white. And he said no - Jewish people are semitic (? I can't remember the word he used exactly).  I said I had never seen that on a form when asking about race.  I also said religion isn't a race. He kept saying Jewish people are semitic (?) not white.

I admit I may be clueless here but I always assumed Jewish people were white (caucasian).  In this case is religion considered a race?

We actually just recently talked here about how technically Arabs and Persians and Armenians are also white. It's weird because it's complicated, but it's true. On forms, they are white. The census in 2020 will have more nuance, which is good.

Yes, Jews are white. But there is most definitely an "othered" aspect to them. By virtue of being non-Christian, and of being a people who has been persecuted for thousands of years, there is definitely an Othering.

I think this is debatable. They haven't decided yet to use the MENA category, but if they do, there are some troubling risks and issues that could come with that. 

[underwaterrhymes]

Mar 17, 2016 14:17:02 GMT -5 notsocreepylurker said:

Ashkenazi is what he used today. Maybe he used it yesterday too? I thought it was Semitic. He is an interesting kid (he's 21). Thinks minimum wage is too high, everyone should own all the guns they want, 9/11 didn't happen. I burn plenty of calories rolling my eyes at him daily.

He talks about this stuff at work?

How is he still employed?

[1yeartogo]

You already received a lot of great answers...but I would just tag on to the idea of Jewish ethnicity. For some people it can be challenging to understand the difference between race/ethnicity especially in a predominantly Christian country where the idea of otherness comes in.

Not saying your co-worker is not expressing anti-semitism (he is by harping on this). But if Judaism was only a religion then it wouldn't follow people around generationally for example you can be non-practicing and still culturally Jewish (and I'm sure there have been many Jews over the years who were persecuted not simply based on religious practices but also culture and bloodlines which is where some of that confusion may come into play).

I am not Jewish but my husband and his family are and even the non-practicing ones consider it their cultural ethnicity.

[AJL]

Jews can be of any race or color. Jews also belong to a number of distinct Jewish ethnic groups - Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizragi, Magrhebi, Ethiopian, Kaifeng, Yemeni, Romani, and other smaller groups. We are a very rich people who throughout history have intermarried with the locals. We still kept our Jewish religion and customs across the ethnic and cultural array.

Jews have not always been and are still not considered (by many people) to be white because "white" is usually reserved for the WASP. Now, I know that my husband is considered white by all who meet him because he is clearly not black, Latino, Asian, or native. However when people find out he's Jewish, then he's regarded as Jewish before he's seen as white.

I am a Jew by religion and by ethnic descent. My Jewish ethnic make-up is Sephardic and Mizrahi. I am also Mexican-American. I'm not white by most people's standards.

Most Jews in the US may be white but that doesn't mean Jew = white.

[msmerymac]

At one point, Ashkenazi Jews were not considered "white" by most in the US. But Italians and Slavs also weren't considered white. Basically, WASPs were the only white people. Which shows how much bullshit the "white" label actually is - it's fluid based on what group(s) the majority of whites want to discriminate against.

[imobviouslystaying]

I think there is a lot of ignorance surrounding what it is to be Jewish. People are used to think of Judaism in one way when that's not the case.

At its most basic (and of course this is all debatable), there are ethnic Jews and religious Jews. Some ethnic Jews are religious. Some religious Jews are ethnic too. Some are only ethnic, some are only religious.

People who are considered of Semitic "races" are Arabs, Jews, etc.

However antisemitism by and large refers primarily to racism against Jews.

[isabel]

This is such a bizarre point to make. Religion does not equal race. His chosen faith, which could be Muslim or Buddhism or Christianity or any number of religions, does not negate the fact that he is white.

[laterbloomer]

Mar 18, 2016 7:52:43 GMT -5 isabel said:

This is such a bizarre point to make. Religion does not equal race. His chosen faith, which could be Muslim or Buddhism or Christianity or any number of religions, does not negate the fact that he is white.

And none of that is really relevant to being appointed SCJ. It's interesting to know, but it's his past judgements that you look at to judge his qualifications for the appointment.

[isabel]

Mar 18, 2016 8:13:02 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Mar 18, 2016 7:52:43 GMT -5 isabel said:

This is such a bizarre point to make. Religion does not equal race. His chosen faith, which could be Muslim or Buddhism or Christianity or any number of religions, does not negate the fact that he is white.

And none of that is really relevant to being appointed SCJ. It's interesting to know, but it's his past judgements that you look at to judge his qualifications for the appointment.

Huh. Who knew that would be the measure to determine approval of a Justice?