Report: Child care workers can't meet own basic needs

[juliej]

But yeah, Bernie – let's pay for college for people who were probably going to go anyway.

www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2016/04/19/report-child-care-workers-cant-meet-own-basic-needs/83236132/

Teachers at child care centers and public preschools in Larimer County make an average of $13.70 per hour, which is $8.34 less than what they need to be self-sufficient, according to a Qualistar Colorado report.

Only one of Colorado's 67 counties, Adams, paid enough for a teacher to meet minimum basic needs, according to the study, Leading Colorado's Early Care and Education Workforce.

Researchers surveyed leaders of 471 licensed centers and public preschools serving children from birth to age 8.

Stacy Howard, vice president of advancement at Qualistar Colorado, said while funding and support for early childhood care is improving, significant gaps between wages and self-sufficiency standards across Colorado remain challenging.

Self-sufficiency standards, calculated by the Colorado Center on Law and Policy, account for basic needs and living expenses in each county. Many experts use the self-sufficiency standard as a quantifier for the inefficiency of the Federal Poverty Level, which does not account for widely varying costs of living across the nation.

Larimer County's self-sufficiency standard for a family of four is nearly $48,000 more than the Federal Poverty Level for a family of the same size.

Most child care and preschool teachers in Colorado earn between $10 and $15 per hour, according to the study.

Center leaders in Larimer County earn an average of $41,253 per year, $5,299 less than the self-sufficiency standard for an adult and preschooler in Larimer County. Food service managers make up to $60,000 a year on average for similar responsibilities "without a direct impact on children and families," Howard said.

First-year Poudre School District teachers make $36,207 a year.

Louise Myrland, vice president of community initiatives and investments at The Women's Foundation, which sponsored the study, said the need for affordable care and the need for qualified teachers who need to be self-sufficient creates a "paradoxical challenge."

The average weekly cost at child care centers in Larimer County is nearly $300 for an infant and $220 for a 4-year-old, according to a December report by Early Childhood Council of Larimer County.

"While working so hard to provide an absolutely essential service for our entire community so working parents can continue to work in our economy, those working to provide this service don't have a viable path to self-sufficiency while working in this sector," Myrland said.

The most common reason for turnover in this sector was a need for more money, Howard said.

[WanderingWinoZ]

ok, I totally get the point of the article about wages vs. costs, but I would assume that almost $14/hour would be a pretty good wage? It isn't a major city/town, but includes loveland and ft collins. What is the federal poverty level if the SSI is $48K MORE?? I guess I'd really like to know what that includes...

Those daycare prices seem really high. I'm paying $255/week in houston for one of the higher end schools. my friend are paying closer to $200 for infants.

[juliej]

Apr 21, 2016 8:53:18 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

ok, I totally get the point of the article about wages vs. costs, but I would assume that almost $14/hour would be a pretty good wage? It isn't a major city/town, but includes loveland and ft collins. What is the federal poverty level if the SSI is $48K MORE?? I guess I'd really like to know what that includes...

Those daycare prices seem really high. I'm paying $255/week in houston for one of the higher end schools. my friend are paying closer to $200 for infants.

Colorado is not the most expensive state, but it's up there. The rates in the article were low for us – we're in Denver and paying $315 a week for a four-year old. His infant care was over $400 a week.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 21, 2016 8:53:18 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

ok, I totally get the point of the article about wages vs. costs, but I would assume that almost $14/hour would be a pretty good wage? It isn't a major city/town, but includes loveland and ft collins. What is the federal poverty level if the SSI is $48K MORE?? I guess I'd really like to know what that includes...

Those daycare prices seem really high. I'm paying $255/week in houston for one of the higher end schools. my friend are paying closer to $200 for infants.

FoCo is higher cost of living than Loveland, at least housing wise. Overall I think the area falls into the medium range for cost of living around the country.

I'm a bit skeptical at the article in that those numbers do seem like good wages for the area.

[cayl]

It seems like self-sufficiency is only met if they can live on one income (which makes sense, since it's SELF-sufficiency). Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but while I feel that teachers and daycare workers are generally underpaid, I really don't think their wages need to be so high that they can support a family of 4 on their own. Can you imagine how much more daycare would cost if that was the case?

[WanderingWinoZ]

The Self-Sufficiency Standard is based on ALL major budget items faced by working adults, not just food. These basic needs include housing, child care, food, health care, transportation, taxes, and miscellaneous costs.
The Self-Sufficiency Standard calculates the most recent local or regional costs of each basic need. Accounting for regional or local variation is particularly important for housing because housing costs vary widely (e.g., the most expensive areas of the country, such as Manhattan, can cost four times as much as in the least expensive areas, such as Mississippi, for equivalent size units).
The Self-Sufficiency Standard varies costs by age groups of children (infants, preschoolers, school agers, and teenagers). This is especially important for child care, which varies substantially by age.
The Self-Sufficiency Standard reflects modern family practices, and assumes that all adults (whether married or single) work full-time. Thus the Standard includes the employment-related costs of transportation, taxes, and child care (when needed). (Note that the Federal Poverty Level assumes a two-parent household with a stay-at-home parent, or single parents relying on welfare or family support. Therefore work-related expenses such as child care, taxes, and transportation are not considered).
The Self-Sufficiency Standard includes the net effect of federal and state taxes and tax credits, as well as any local taxes and tax credits.


www.selfsufficiencystandard.org/node/3

[taratru]

I HATE how little ECE teachers are paid. Hate it. Those are the most important learning years and we pay them that? This is why ECE is SO MUCH MORE important for everyone to have access instead of the end, Bernie. Fuck.

[kadams767]

Out of curiosity, where does all the childcare money that parents pay in go, since it clearly isn't to wages for the workers. And I get the impression that typical centers and owners aren't really raking it in either. Is is just that expensive to operate and insure?

[WanderingWinoZ]

Apr 21, 2016 15:15:29 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Apr 21, 2016 8:53:18 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

ok, I totally get the point of the article about wages vs. costs, but I would assume that almost $14/hour would be a pretty good wage? It isn't a major city/town, but includes loveland and ft collins. What is the federal poverty level if the SSI is $48K MORE?? I guess I'd really like to know what that includes...

Those daycare prices seem really high. I'm paying $255/week in houston for one of the higher end schools. my friend are paying closer to $200 for infants.

Is this in Houston proper?  The top four daycares we looked at (all centers; two national chains) ranged from $1250 - $1505 a month for infant care and this was 3 years ago.

In any event, I think this shows how much the government needs to step in.  People can't afford to pay much more for daycare, so we need another solution other than raising prices.

that's nuts- I'm in the suburbs (Cypress) & we go to a primrose. I pay about $500/week for an infant and a toddler.  I think infant is 265/week x 4.5 weeks is 1192 total a month, so not that much cheaper than your low end.

[WanderingWinoZ]

Apr 21, 2016 15:28:02 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Out of curiosity, where does all the childcare money that parents pay in go, since it clearly isn't to wages for the workers. And I get the impression that typical centers and owners aren't really raking it in either. Is is just that expensive to operate and insure?

we've had a few discussions about it on the board- there's lots of overhead, programming, state regulations & requirements, curriculum, administrative staff, insurance requirements. 

[winecat]

Apr 21, 2016 15:30:46 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

Apr 21, 2016 15:28:02 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Out of curiosity, where does all the childcare money that parents pay in go, since it clearly isn't to wages for the workers. And I get the impression that typical centers and owners aren't really raking it in either. Is is just that expensive to operate and insure?

we've had a few discussions about it on the board- there's lots of overhead, programming, state regulations & requirements, curriculum, administrative staff, insurance requirements. 

Is there any data around this?  Anecdote alert: I had a customer who said insurance wasn't high and inferred that she made a lot of money.  

[imobviouslystaying]

Apr 21, 2016 9:19:13 GMT -5 cayl said:

It seems like self-sufficiency is only met if they can live on one income (which makes sense, since it's SELF-sufficiency). Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but while I feel that teachers and daycare workers are generally underpaid, I really don't think their wages need to be so high that they can support a family of 4 on their own. Can you imagine how much more daycare would cost if that was the case?

Can we separate these two, please?

The idea that people who care for children do not deserve to make more because omg, daycare is already so expensive is just as stupid as those with degrees feeling some type of way about raising pay for fast food workers. Now obviously in this case, at least the two costs are related. But at the end of the day, the ease with which many working parents are cool with the people who care for and nurture their children for 8 hours a day being in such tight straits makes me feel some type of way.

There have to be some solutions out there that both pay the people who care for children something of a wage they can live on and lower the daycare costs for working parents.

[imobviouslystaying]

Apr 21, 2016 11:25:53 GMT -5 taratru said:

I HATE how little ECE teachers are paid. Hate it. Those are the most important learning years and we pay them that? This is why ECE is SO MUCH MORE important for everyone to have access instead of the end, Bernie. Fuck.

And I hate the rising expectation that daycare workers/providers have a four year degree. How the fuck do people really expect people who make some of the smallest full time salaries to have paid for a damned degree?

[cayl]

Apr 21, 2016 17:59:18 GMT -5 imobviouslystaying said:

Apr 21, 2016 9:19:13 GMT -5 cayl said:

It seems like self-sufficiency is only met if they can live on one income (which makes sense, since it's SELF-sufficiency). Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but while I feel that teachers and daycare workers are generally underpaid, I really don't think their wages need to be so high that they can support a family of 4 on their own. Can you imagine how much more daycare would cost if that was the case?

Can we separate these two, please?

The idea that people who care for children do not deserve to make more because omg, daycare is already so expensive is just as stupid as those with degrees feeling some type of way about raising pay for fast food workers. Now obviously in this case, at least the two costs are related. But at the end of the day, the ease with which many working parents are cool with the people who care for and nurture their children for 8 hours a day being in such tight straits makes me feel some type of way.

There have to be some solutions out there that both pay the people who care for children something of a wage they can live on and lower the daycare costs for working parents.

It's not that I don't think we should pay them more - I said they're underpaid.  But I don't think most jobs these days pay the types of salaries that make it so that a family can be a single income family.  If there were more jobs like that, then the need for daycare workers would drop, which would also likely make their wages drop.

I don't think it's "stupid" to think that not all jobs will pay enough for someone to support a family of 4, and that the reality is that most households are dual income. 

[cayl]

Apr 21, 2016 18:01:27 GMT -5 imobviouslystaying said:

Apr 21, 2016 11:25:53 GMT -5 taratru said:

I HATE how little ECE teachers are paid. Hate it. Those are the most important learning years and we pay them that? This is why ECE is SO MUCH MORE important for everyone to have access instead of the end, Bernie. Fuck.

And I hate the rising expectation that daycare workers/providers have a four year degree. How the fuck do people really expect people who make some of the smallest full time salaries to have paid for a damned degree?

I also agree with this.  It's insane to expect daycare workers to have a degree and then pay them crap.  My only problem with this is that I don't think that most jobs allow single income families.

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2016 8:53:18 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

ok, I totally get the point of the article about wages vs. costs, but I would assume that almost $14/hour would be a pretty good wage? It isn't a major city/town, but includes loveland and ft collins. What is the federal poverty level if the SSI is $48K MORE?? I guess I'd really like to know what that includes...

Those daycare prices seem really high. I'm paying $255/week in houston for one of the higher end schools. my friend are paying closer to $200 for infants.

For a center those costs listed are pretty accurate here (I live in Loveland). I even paid that much ($1100 a month) for childcare in a lot cheaper city in KS.

I have no clue how the rest compares. An average apartment complex near us is $900-1000 a month for a 1 bedroom and Loveland is cheaper than FoCo.

[imobviouslystaying]

Apr 21, 2016 18:10:23 GMT -5 cayl said:

It's not that I don't think we should pay them more - I said they're underpaid.  But I don't think most jobs these days pay the types of salaries that make it so that a family can be a single income family.  If there were more jobs like that, then the need for daycare workers would drop, which would also likely make their wages drop.

I don't think it's "stupid" to think that not all jobs will pay enough for someone to support a family of 4, and that the reality is that most households are dual income. 

I honestly don't know how to respond to this. It's on a par with people who believe that well, fast food jobs are for college kids so if you expect to make a living and feed your own children with it, fuck you.

Every job should have the potential to allow a person to raise their children on it.

But childcare as a rule has a very long and storied history of marginalization for a variety of reasons. That we clearly do not value it as a career choice, as a skillset, as something some people are damned good at, as something worthy of respect are mindsets we've struggled with in all many of ways, in all facets of society, historical context, etc.

[darnkatz]

I guess I don't understand why it's a-okay for other professions to have salaries that would support a family but it's not okay for child care workers. The first few years of a child's life are crucial to development and to forming who you become as a person. I think that is pretty damn important. I also am bitter because I've worked in child care (both daycare and as a nanny) and it is so under appreciated.

For the record, my husband was working full time while I was working full time at a daycare and we still had to utilize social programs. So yeah, it's sometimes not enough to sustain quality of life even with another person contributing.

[imobviouslystaying]

Apr 21, 2016 18:31:50 GMT -5 darnkatz said:

I guess I don't understand why it's a-okay for other professions to have salaries that would support a family but it's not okay for child care workers. The first few years of a child's life are crucial to development and to forming who you become as a person. I think that is pretty damn important. I also am bitter because I've worked in child care (both daycare and as a nanny) and it is so under appreciated.

For the record, my husband was working full time while I was working full time at a daycare and we still had to utilize social programs. So yeah, it's sometimes not enough to sustain quality of life even with another person contributing.

I think people wholeheartedly believe childcare work is something that should be temporary. And yet the very nature of it, the demands of it are such that it should be something we understand to be a calling, a skill, a vital need. We have this attitude that any perky 20 year old can take care of some kids, how hard can that be?

But again, I think there is a lot of things that go into this. It's a big wad of feminist expectation and history with some race and social issues thrown in the mix.

You've got this constant struggle between acknowledging the value of childcare while at the same time marginalizing the work of it because well, they still aren't the parents. And this is to say nothing of the exploitative nature of childcare work.

At the heart of it, most people are asking someone else to be away from their own children in order to provide their children a higher level of care often than they themselves would provide. And I think there are a lot of emotions and history in that which leads to where we are.

[penguingrrl]

Im going to go out on a limb and say that the "oh, most households are dual income" comes from a place of enormous privilege. it assumes there are two working age adults in the household and childcare arrangements possible on low wages. There is no excuse for anyone who works full time to be unable to afford basic necessities. And employers and the government shouldn't be in the business of assuming every household has multiple able bodied adults as an excuse to pay poverty-level wages.

[imobviouslystaying]

Apr 21, 2016 19:00:05 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Im going to go out on a limb and say that the "oh, most households are dual income" comes from a place of enormous privilege. it assumes there are two working age adults in the household and childcare arrangements possible on low wages. There is no excuse for anyone who works full time to be unable to afford basic necessities. And employers and the government shouldn't be in the business of assuming every household has multiple able bodied adults as an excuse to pay poverty-level wages.

Right. 

And in many cases, we are still talking about dual income households. But non-traditional ones. So people who are divorced, who were never married, people who live with their own parents, who get child support or money from their child/ren's father who also works a lower income job.

We usually are not talking about someone who is a single parent with four kids, an absent parent, and a mortgage. So the easy dismissal of well, get a husband really just stings.

[penguingrrl]

Apr 21, 2016 19:18:06 GMT -5 imobviouslystaying said:

Apr 21, 2016 19:00:05 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Im going to go out on a limb and say that the "oh, most households are dual income" comes from a place of enormous privilege. it assumes there are two working age adults in the household and childcare arrangements possible on low wages. There is no excuse for anyone who works full time to be unable to afford basic necessities. And employers and the government shouldn't be in the business of assuming every household has multiple able bodied adults as an excuse to pay poverty-level wages.

Right. 

And in many cases, we are still talking about dual income households. But non-traditional ones. So people who are divorced, who were never married, people who live with their own parents, who get child support or money from their child/ren's father who also works a lower income job.

We usually are not talking about someone who is a single parent with four kids, an absent parent, and a mortgage. So the easy dismissal of well, get a husband really just stings.

Exactly. There are plenty of situations with one adult and children and no child support coming in for whatever reason (never involved, incarcerated, walked out, passed away) and this attitude that it just takes two incomes when two simply aren't possible is insulting.

[imobviouslystaying]

Apr 21, 2016 19:23:19 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Exactly. There are plenty of situations with one adult and children and no child support coming in for whatever reason (never involved, incarcerated, walked out, passed away) and this attitude that it just takes two incomes when two simply aren't possible is insulting.

Or even one adult, a few children, even just one AND child support coming in and it still doesn't cover, even with government assistance. Some of these women are paying for childcare themselves, either with a discount at the center where they work, or paying someone for a far lesser standard than they are providing the children they care for.

It's dismissive and detached. And it's also just a wee too close to make better choice/keep your legs closed for me to be okay with it.

[twotrue]

I've joked to my wife that we pay our babysitters, whom are workers at the boys' daycare, more in a month than they earn from the daycare center. Sadly, some months, that may be true.

[imobviouslystaying]

Apr 21, 2016 19:40:56 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

Ditto imobviouslystaying . There has to be a way to reconcile higher salaries for teachers with still reasonable tuitions.

DS1's teacher makes comments to me about living paycheck to paycheck and i feel guilty about our low rate of tuition (I pay 1950 a month for two kids at a Bright Horizons).

Also - we all know a large part of the reason for the low salaries is that daycare workers are traditionally female and - in my area at least - the majority are minorities. We know women-dominated fields get paid less than male-dominated fields, so it makes sense that daycare workers/teachers get paid such dismal salaries. It's not right, but it's not surprising.

And they primarily come from two segments of society, those for whom these jobs are temporary (usually not the case with full time providers btw) and those who we think should have made better choices. Neither lends society to the idea that they should be able to see to their basic needs.

[fumbalina]

The last time I considered applying for a daycare job, the pay was minimum wage and the job required 2 years of experience in addition to a CDA.

While I do not mind the experience or CDA, it should actually come with a higher pat scale. The grocery store starts at a dollar an hour more with regular raises, plus an opportunity to advance to a better job. I prefer working with children but I can't afford to earn that little. It is one reason there is high turnover in many centers.

[nikki25]

Apr 21, 2016 8:53:18 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

ok, I totally get the point of the article about wages vs. costs, but I would assume that almost $14/hour would be a pretty good wage? It isn't a major city/town, but includes loveland and ft collins. What is the federal poverty level if the SSI is $48K MORE?? I guess I'd really like to know what that includes...

Those daycare prices seem really high. I'm paying $255/week in houston for one of the higher end schools. my friend are paying closer to $200 for infants.

The more than must be a typo. The federal guidelines are not even close to 48K for a family of 4.

This article is quite confusing and poorly written because I can't understand the numbers nor their comparisons.

Now, I have no clue if this is an expensive County in CO but if the average daycare provider is making 42k a year, that isn't too bad IMO.

I live in an expensive area with high housing and lower wages that is not relative to the housing and inflation rates.

I am also a lawyer, though many of my clients insist I am not : wink wink: I make barely over that amount : ( I know I work in public service and don't expect to be rolling in money but that isn't too bad of a salary for daycare. I can assure our daycare workers making nothing close to that though they should and deserve.

[nikki25]

I also just had this conversation with the director at my daycare about trying to get more grant money/funding for the teachers and for the families.

Interestingly enough, a Senator is coming to my childrens' school tomorrow; primarily my DD's private kindergarten class, and we all wrote letters about the importance of education and grant money to help fund private full-day kindergarten since our district only provides half-day with no fucking bussing.

Locals: look for my adorable DD tomorrow on the news

[turnipthebeet]

If ECE were a predominantly male-dominated field, I believe workers would be paid a salary sufficient to support a family.

I feel the same about nursing.

[juliej]

Apr 21, 2016 20:30:02 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

Apr 21, 2016 8:53:18 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

ok, I totally get the point of the article about wages vs. costs, but I would assume that almost $14/hour would be a pretty good wage? It isn't a major city/town, but includes loveland and ft collins. What is the federal poverty level if the SSI is $48K MORE?? I guess I'd really like to know what that includes...

Those daycare prices seem really high. I'm paying $255/week in houston for one of the higher end schools. my friend are paying closer to $200 for infants.

The more than must be a typo. The federal guidelines are not even close to 48K for a family of 4.

This article is quite confusing and poorly written because I can't understand the numbers nor their comparisons.

Now, I have no clue if this is an expensive County in CO but if the average daycare provider is making 42k a year, that isn't too bad IMO.

I live in an expensive area with high housing and lower wages that is not relative to the housing and inflation rates.

I am also a lawyer, though many of my clients insist I am not : wink wink: I make barely over that amount : ( I know I work in public service and don't expect to be rolling in money but that isn't too bad of a salary for daycare. I can assure our daycare workers making nothing close to that though they should and deserve.

The $42k is for a center *leader*, not a caregiver. The caregivers are making $13.70 an hour, or around $28k.