Money, race, and success in school

[dr.girlfriend]

This was interesting (where interesting means terrifying and tragic but not surprising):

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/29/upshot/money-race-and-success-how-your-school-district-compares.html?_r=0

[lys]

It is sad to see so much underperformance in our education system.
There are many factors that our education system cannot control, however: culture, family structure, income, parents' education level, parents' relationship with their children, and parenting style - all of which impact student success.

[sfy]

Apr 30, 2016 10:09:55 GMT -5 @mx said:

Apr 30, 2016 9:57:04 GMT -5 lys said:

It is sad to see so much underperformance in our education system.
There are many factors that our education system cannot control, however: culture, family structure, income, parents' education level, parents' relationship with their children, and parenting style - all of which impact student success.

So last weekend I had lunch with a friend who is a long time teacher--and he basically said the exact opposite. He's been teaching in Title I schools in Baltimore for 20 years. He says with a good teacher and a good school almost every kid can succeed. We were talking about some particular kids and where they should go to middle school. And these kids have a lot of disadvantages. But he basically said any kid can survive one year of a bad teacher. But not two. If a kid has two bad teachers in a row that's when their risk of dropping out or losing interest in school skyrockets. I believe him more than you since he has a PhD and twenty years of this. And since he's a teacher he is inclined--if anything--to try to shift the blame away from teachers. And also because he would never ever ever speak disparagingly of his kids' culture. So you can go right to hell with that.

Thank you for this post. There are charter schools which have been helping student populations who would otherwise maybe not succeed and getting them to 90%+ college attendance rates. With the right administration, teachers and curriculum, success is possible for nearly any student. But I realize that some people NEED to buy in the narrative that so many students are failing because of themselves or their parents. Otherwise, it's very hard for them to sit up on those high horses and believe that everything they have was achieved by their own sheer will, determination and hard work, rather than the actual practices put in place to help those achievements along. It's rare that I actually feel emotion when I read posts on the Internet, but the disgust and disdain were strong for that one.

[sfy]

Apr 30, 2016 10:37:16 GMT -5 @foodielicious said:

Wow @mx, you can disagree, but that was a bit harsh.

No, it wasn't.

Eta - why the post deletion, @foodielicious? There is nothing wrong with disagreeing and having a dialogue about this.

[sfy]

Apr 30, 2016 11:02:44 GMT -5 @foodielicious said:

Apr 30, 2016 10:38:24 GMT -5 sfy said:

No, it wasn't.

Eta - why the post deletion, @foodielicious ? There is nothing wrong with disagreeing and having a dialogue about this.

I tried to have a conversation, I thought telling someone to go straight to hell was harsh.  My take away from the last few weeks was that we should stand up when we thought people were being spoken to/about unfairly.  Your response felt like I was being told to sit down and shut up again, so I did.

I desperately want to have a conversation about this, but don't want to be yelled at or called names and it seemed headed in that direction.  I'm having a tough time in general right now and I don't have the emotional capacity to handle it.  I probably shouldn't have said anything in the first place.  I chose to exit.

I'm sorry you're having a tough time, and your points are fair. I asked why you deleted because I thought your point about Outliers was a good one. Also, generally speaking, I think that at times, some of us may disagree and there's nothing wrong with that. I think it makes for a better discussion most of the time and can provide us with other perspectives, something which I'm willing to bet, most of us do not receive enough exposure to IRL. The reason I didn't think @mx's post was harsh is because I know she has the benefit of experience as it relates to lys and her thoughts on these kinds of topics from CEP, where, btw, she was banned due to her racial and cultural insensitivity. That post felt like more of the same and I'm sure the post was, in part, a reaction to that. Hence, my "No, it wasn't."

[lys]

mx - I am referring to the culture of "interest and support of education" - not any demographic! Sheesh! Those who come from a culture of "education is important" have an advantage.

My first teaching job was years ago at an elementary school in Oakland, CA near a housing project. There was a lot of gang activity in the neighborhood. Teaches would have car batteries stolen out of their cars frequently etc. etc.
When a child comes to school and tells me he is worried about his brother was taken to the emergency room due to a drug over dose - or their dad is in jail --- it impacts their ability to attend to what is happening in the classroom. Students had to be monitored for what their were wearing - gang colors, bandanas - another distraction to learning.

We were also overcrowded - so split - sessions were the norm - early and later starts .

Good teachers, small classes and well funded schools can overcome many problems ---

I do not know what has happened to that school, or neighborhood since we left the Bay area years ago ----- I still think about some of the kids.

[aurora]

lys, with your history of racist commentary here it's hard to read your first comment in this thread as anything else.

[lys]

Aurora - that "history" was the same as this one ---- mis interpreted. --and it was not this board who judged and banned me. I will not engage on this subject further.

[fumbalina]

One reason low SES schools do poorly is because there are often few experienced teachers there. These schools tend to be a longer commute from desirable locations, often have little support in way of administration and poorly maintained buildings.

Instead of attracting teachers who are successful, they tend to have a majority of hopeful recent graduates. These are the students who need the most support, and new teachers do not get much practical experience in college.

[daisypaloma]

Interesting read.   

[insominac]

Those are some really cool data visualizations. Incredibly frustrating, but they do a good job of showing the extent of the problem.

[dr.girlfriend]

May 1, 2016 18:56:44 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Apr 30, 2016 10:37:16 GMT -5 @foodielicious said:

.

lys has said racist shit in the past. @mx isn't coming out of the clear blue sky with her response.


I've mentioned on here before that I'm moving within the next year or so because the elementary school I'm zoned to has an achievement gap but the other 2 nearby don't in spite of having the same demographics.

I refuse to send my brown babies to a school where they will be perceived as less smart right off the bat.



ETA: I don't think private school mitigates the issue as I don't want my kids be the lone brown kids in class.

I think it's amazing how easily people (read, white women) believe that women and girls don't succeed in math and science because of cultural expectations, but then are flabbergasted at the idea that cultural expectations negatively affect the performance of minority kids despite all the clear evidence that something as simple as identifying your race at the top of the test paper can negatively affect your performance.  That minority kids are more likely to be perceived as behavior problems, are more likely to be suspended, etc., etc.

And, yeah, @246baje , I totally feel you.  Diversity + good school district was at the very top of our criteria for house-hunting, and why we ended up in a modest two-bedroom.  DH and I both grew up as one of the few people of color in our schools, and we didn't want DS to have that experience.

[leeba25]

That's a really good article; thanks for posting.

I do wish the 2nd graphic had a search feature, like the first one. Some of those differences are just staggering.

[daisyn]

People with more money can afford to buy houses in better school districts, not surpringing info to me at all. And nicer houses means more taxes, and more money to pay teachers, etc.

[carfar]

Ugh. This makes me never ever want my kid to grow up and deal with or be aware of any of this bullshit.