Oxy makers knew it wouldn't last 12 hours

[WanderingWinoZ]

WHAT TO SAY WHEN THE DELI DOWN THE STREET SAYS IT HAS THE WORLD’S BEST CUP OF COFFEE...

I’m calling BS. OxyContin’s also getting called out. A recent LA Times investigation , based on confidential docs from OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma, shed light on why so many Americans are addicted to the painkiller. Purdue claims that OxyContin lasts for 12 hours. But this investigation found that it often wears off wayyy before then. Big problem, since OxyContin is in the same chemical fam as heroin, aka highly addictive. Which means patients are finding that OxyContin doesn’t last for 12 hours, and experiencing serious withdrawal symptoms as it wears off. Which is leading doctors to prescribe stronger doses. Which makes addiction - and overdose - a lot more likely. Which is even scarier when you realize that millions of Americans have abused the drug.

static.latimes.com/oxycontin-part1/

[underwaterrhymes]

I hate oxy.

My dad, aunt, and uncle were all addicted to it. My dad is sober now, but my aunt and uncle both died as addicts, although my aunt's death was ultimately due to cancer.

[simpsongal]

It's scary stuff. For me, the effects were so intense but somehow it was so easy to pop, like candy. I've taken it like 3 times in my life, twice for shoulder surgeries and once for wisdom teeth. Docs always prescribed more pills than I needed. What's wrong w/making a patient pick up the phone 4 days post op and explain why they need something stronger than three Advil at that point.

[mich1]

Sorry......I found it a freaking lifesaver after surgery. It kept me mildly uncomfortable vs writhing in pain after my hip excisions. I had 4 hip surgeries in 11 months and took it for about 2 months after each surgery. When the pain decreased, I tapered down and off of it.

Not everyone can take Advil. Years of NSAID use fighting OA from 24 years have left me with kidney impairment. NSAIDs also impair bone healing, as the same molecules that are blocked in inflammation by NSAIDs are also those necessary for bone repair.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2016 8:58:25 GMT -5 mich1 said:

Sorry......I found it a freaking lifesaver after surgery. It kept me mildly uncomfortable vs writhing in pain after my hip excisions. I had 4 hip surgeries in 11 months and took it for about 2 months after each surgery. When the pain decreased, I tapered down and off of it.

Not everyone can take Advil. Years of NSAID use fighting OA from 24 years have left me with kidney impairment. NSAIDs also impair bone healing, as the same molecules that are blocked in inflammation by NSAIDs are also those necessary for bone repair.

There is a pretty big gulf between Advil and OxyContin. The story has some really damning information about deceptive marketing of OxyContin's ability to last 12 hours. I don't think that anybody is just advocating that those in severe pain not be able to have narcotics, but that doesn't mean that the way OxyContin was pushed into the market wasn't highly problematic.

[Deleted]

People should definitely read the article before we all just share our narcotics anecdotes. There is some fascinating and horrifying stuff about the way OxyContin was brought to the market. In particular, the company justified the higher price to insurance companies by reporting that it lasted much longer than cheaper narcotics despite ample evidence that it doesn't actually last 12 hours. And that has been a contributory factor in it addictiveness.

[laurack]

this in a way reminds me of the gun argument. It's not a "WE'RE TAKING YOUR MEDS AWAY!!!!" thing. It's a discussion of the pros and cons of certain options and shadiness in the marketing of certain drugs.

Nobody is saying we don't need narcotic pain killers. Obviously Advil isn't going to cut it for many things. But on the other hand we clearly have a huge and worsening problem with opioid addiction and clutching our oxy pills to our chests protectively because we managed to reap the painkilling benefits yet not to get addicted to heroin after taking them is going to solve nothing.

[partiallysunny]

That was a really interesting article.

[Deleted]

Very interesting!

[simpsongal]

The marketing stuff encouraging bigger and bigger scripts made me sick. I hope DOJ isn't finished with this company.

[ESF]

May 9, 2016 9:10:45 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

People should definitely read the article before we all just share our narcotics anecdotes. There is some fascinating and horrifying stuff about the way OxyContin was brought to the market. In particular, the company justified the higher price to insurance companies by reporting that it lasted much longer than cheaper narcotics despite ample evidence that it doesn't actually last 12 hours. And that has been a contributory factor in it addictiveness.

I have not read this article yet, but years ago, I read a different article about the marketing of OxyContin. It was scary. OxyContin is not Advil, but at least in the early days, that's essentially how they were pitching it. Telling doctors that it was suitable for the relief of chronic pain, even for chronic pain that is not debilitating. I wish I could find that article because it had brochures and stuff in it, and I remember just being in disbelief at how lightly they were treating it. Reading those brochures, you would have thought they were selling super-strength Advil, no joke.

My cousin got hooked on OxyContin after hurting his back fifteen years ago, and his life has been destroyed. He's had stretches of homelessness, he's stolen from my grandfather and other family members, destroyed his brother's credit, etc. It's been very sad to watch.

I had surgery in 2003, and I told the doctors beforehand that I did not want OxyContin because the article I had read had scared me shitless about it.  When I came out of it, I found out they had given it to me. They claimed that after I woke up from the anesthesia, I consented to it. I was so fucking pissed. Give me any other fucking kind of painkiller, assholes!!!

[ijack]

So if doctors would have been allowed to freely write their rxs to be taken on a shorter schedule (6 or 8 hours) would the drug be less addictive? Or is the drug inherently addictive regardless of how often it's taken?
I've never taken it, but if the high is anything like percocet I can see how easily people get addicted to it. That shit makes you feel gooooood.

[ESF]

May 9, 2016 11:59:12 GMT -5 ijack said:

So if doctors would have been allowed to freely write their rxs to be taken on a shorter schedule (6 or 8 hours) would the drug be less addictive? Or is the drug inherently addictive regardless of how often it's taken?
I've never taken it, but if the high is anything like percocet I can see how easily people get addicted to it. That shit makes you feel gooooood.

It would still be addictive. But because it's incredibly expensive, if you need to take it, say 4 times a day instead of twice a day, insurance companies wouldn't pay for it and people wouldn't buy it. There are cheaper pain killers out there that aren't as addictive.

[ijack]

May 9, 2016 12:05:00 GMT -5 ESF said:

May 9, 2016 11:59:12 GMT -5 ijack said:

So if doctors would have been allowed to freely write their rxs to be taken on a shorter schedule (6 or 8 hours) would the drug be less addictive? Or is the drug inherently addictive regardless of how often it's taken?
I've never taken it, but if the high is anything like percocet I can see how easily people get addicted to it. That shit makes you feel gooooood.

It would still be addictive. But because it's incredibly expensive, if you need to take it, say 4 times a day instead of twice a day, insurance companies wouldn't pay for it and people wouldn't buy it. There are cheaper pain killers out there that aren't as addictive.

and based on further reading it looks like the more often you experience the withdrawal effects, the more likely it is to become addictive. So if you're spending hours each day feeling that way between each dose I can see how it would happen.
So disgusting

[dirtyred]

May 9, 2016 8:39:06 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

It's scary stuff. For me, the effects were so intense but somehow it was so easy to pop, like candy. I've taken it like 3 times in my life, twice for shoulder surgeries and once for wisdom teeth. Docs always prescribed more pills than I needed. What's wrong w/making a patient pick up the phone 4 days post op and explain why they need something stronger than three Advil at that point.

Because pain control is a HUGE JCAHO focus and if patients complain of any pain at all, the hospital/surgery center can get dinged and then they need to get resurveyed, etc.

ETA:  I have a very high pain tolerance and I had to fight with the anesthesiologist after each of my three surgeries to NOT get narcotic pain meds.  I had to sign a release saying I refused pain meds. Pain management is a really big deal.

[sushi]

May 9, 2016 11:59:12 GMT -5 ijack said:

So if doctors would have been allowed to freely write their rxs to be taken on a shorter schedule (6 or 8 hours) would the drug be less addictive? Or is the drug inherently addictive regardless of how often it's taken?
I've never taken it, but if the high is anything like percocet I can see how easily people get addicted to it. That shit makes you feel gooooood.

Any opiate is addictive. Percocet, Lortab, Tylenol 3...

Often the difference between those isn't the opiate part. It's whether there's Tylenol, advil, aspirin as an additive.

What happens is people get addicted to the opiate, but it's giggly controlled and expensive on the street. Heroin becomes doc

[PinkSquirrel]

May 9, 2016 8:39:06 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

It's scary stuff. For me, the effects were so intense but somehow it was so easy to pop, like candy. I've taken it like 3 times in my life, twice for shoulder surgeries and once for wisdom teeth. Docs always prescribed more pills than I needed. What's wrong w/making a patient pick up the phone 4 days post op and explain why they need something stronger than three Advil at that point.

You got Oxycontin for wisdom tooth extraction?!?!?!?!   Are you sure you didn't get Oxycodone (Percocet)?   

[olivesyou]

Powerful article.

I just don't see how the FDA did end up approving the Q12 regimen. Like, during clinical trials what % of patients did the 12 hour dose actually work?

I think there needs to be an overhaul of prescription pain medicine. I don't know the answer, but something needs to be done.

I bet every single person on this board has been affected or knows someone affected by prescription pill abuse/addiction. It is a major problem with devastating results

[simpsongal]

May 9, 2016 12:35:23 GMT -5 PinkSquirrel said:

May 9, 2016 8:39:06 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

It's scary stuff. For me, the effects were so intense but somehow it was so easy to pop, like candy. I've taken it like 3 times in my life, twice for shoulder surgeries and once for wisdom teeth. Docs always prescribed more pills than I needed. What's wrong w/making a patient pick up the phone 4 days post op and explain why they need something stronger than three Advil at that point.

You got Oxycontin for wisdom tooth extraction?!?!?!?!   Are you sure you didn't get Oxycodone (Percocet)?   

It was a long time ago, you're probably right though.  Is there a pain med w/o a stigma surrounding it?  I know percodane (sp?) was controversial I think for it's addictiveness, and I recall there was criticism of the harsh effect of Percocet on the liver.

[nikki25]

I think a lot of people are confusing oxycontin with oxycodone. They are the same type of opioid but at a much different level of concentration.

Oxycontin is very rarely prescribed for after surgeries or even chronic pain for at least the past 6-10 years. It is still used often in cancer patients for obvious reasons.

This is without even touching the article.

But, I do have to say, because of these types of things, the pendulum is swinging very far to the right making it more difficult, causing upwards of suspicion and embarrassmental for those who do require these higher pain medications.I hope more effort is put into finding a better alternative for those who have chronic conditions. There isn't much unfortunately.

[nikki25]

May 9, 2016 12:35:23 GMT -5 PinkSquirrel said:

May 9, 2016 8:39:06 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

It's scary stuff. For me, the effects were so intense but somehow it was so easy to pop, like candy. I've taken it like 3 times in my life, twice for shoulder surgeries and once for wisdom teeth. Docs always prescribed more pills than I needed. What's wrong w/making a patient pick up the phone 4 days post op and explain why they need something stronger than three Advil at that point.

You got Oxycontin for wisdom tooth extraction?!?!?!?!   Are you sure you didn't get Oxycodone (Percocet)?   

I think there is a lot of confusion of the difference. I think most of us have never been prescribed oxycontin but I can understand the confusion of the two.

[nikki25]

May 9, 2016 12:56:52 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

May 9, 2016 12:35:23 GMT -5 PinkSquirrel said:

You got Oxycontin for wisdom tooth extraction?!?!?!?!   Are you sure you didn't get Oxycodone (Percocet)?   

It was a long time ago, you're probably right though.  Is there a pain med w/o a stigma surrounding it?  I know percodane (sp?) was controversial I think for it's addictiveness, and I recall there was criticism of the harsh effect of Percocet on the liver.

No, there is a very heavy stigma which sucks. And, for chronic pain, oxycodone, which is Percocet without the Tylenol, is prescribed for that exact reason.

[wambam]

May 9, 2016 13:15:26 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

I think a lot of people are confusing oxycontin with oxycodone. They are the same type of opioid but at a much different level of concentration.

Oxycontin is very rarely prescribed for after surgeries or even chronic pain for at least the past 6-10 years. It is still used often in cancer patients for obvious reasons.

This is without even touching the article.

But, I do have to say, because of these types of things, the pendulum is swinging very far to the right making it more difficult, causing upwards of suspicion and embarrassmental for those who do require these higher pain medications.I hope more effort is put into finding a better alternative for those who have chronic conditions. There isn't much unfortunately.

Oxycodone is the generic name for OxyContin. Yes, oxycodone by itself is higher mg than when paired with Tylenol in Percocet. But oxycodone and OxyContin are the same drug.

[nikki25]

May 9, 2016 13:22:14 GMT -5 wambam said:

May 9, 2016 13:15:26 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

I think a lot of people are confusing oxycontin with oxycodone. They are the same type of opioid but at a much different level of concentration.

Oxycontin is very rarely prescribed for after surgeries or even chronic pain for at least the past 6-10 years. It is still used often in cancer patients for obvious reasons.

This is without even touching the article.

But, I do have to say, because of these types of things, the pendulum is swinging very far to the right making it more difficult, causing upwards of suspicion and embarrassmental for those who do require these higher pain medications.I hope more effort is put into finding a better alternative for those who have chronic conditions. There isn't much unfortunately.

Oxycodone is the generic name for OxyContin. Yes, oxycodone by itself is higher mg than when paired with Tylenol in Percocet. But oxycodone and OxyContin are the same drug.

Oxycodone is not prescribed, typically, in higher dosages, it is the same mg, as Percocet. So, oxycodone is 5 mg, Percocet is 5mg/325mg. The Tylenol actually enhances the benefits of the oxycodone.


And, just as Percocet, oxycodone, etc are all inherently the same opioid but the concentration is much different and prescribed for MUCH different reasons. People don't get prescribed oxycontin for after surgery, wisdom teeth or for chronic pain much. That is exactly what I just stated, lol.

[wambam]

May 9, 2016 13:38:13 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

May 9, 2016 13:22:14 GMT -5 wambam said:

Oxycodone is the generic name for OxyContin. Yes, oxycodone by itself is higher mg than when paired with Tylenol in Percocet. But oxycodone and OxyContin are the same drug.

Oxycodone is not prescribed, typically, in higher dosages, it is the same mg, as Percocet. So, oxycodone is 5 mg, Percocet is 5mg/325mg. The Tylenol actually enhances the benefits of the oxycodone.


And, just as Percocet, oxycodone, etc are all inherently the same opioid but the concentration is much different and prescribed for MUCH different reasons. People don't get prescribed oxycontin for after surgery, wisdom teeth or for chronic pain much. That is exactly what I just stated, lol.

Sorry, I misunderstood your first post.

[nikki25]

May 9, 2016 13:42:58 GMT -5 wambam said:

May 9, 2016 13:38:13 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

Oxycodone is not prescribed, typically, in higher dosages, it is the same mg, as Percocet. So, oxycodone is 5 mg, Percocet is 5mg/325mg. The Tylenol actually enhances the benefits of the oxycodone.


And, just as Percocet, oxycodone, etc are all inherently the same opioid but the concentration is much different and prescribed for MUCH different reasons. People don't get prescribed oxycontin for after surgery, wisdom teeth or for chronic pain much. That is exactly what I just stated, lol.

Sorry, I misunderstood your first post.

Okay, because I read this like 3 times and was like, girl, we are on the same page, lol.

[wambam]

May 9, 2016 13:45:36 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

May 9, 2016 13:42:58 GMT -5 wambam said:

Sorry, I misunderstood your first post.

Okay, because I read this like 3 times and was like, girl, we are on the same page, lol.

Yeah I thought you were saying that OxyContin and oxycodone were different drugs. Reading comprehension fail.

[Nonny]

Many years ago I had knee surgery and was prescribed Percocet. I don't remember what the dosing schedule was, but I fell asleep early and slept through my bedtime dose. When I woke up at about 3 am, I was in pain, but I was also shaking uncontrollably. I assumed it was because I was in pain, got up, used the bathroom, and took a pill. Before I fell back asleep, maybe 15-20 minutes later, I realized that I was still in pain, but I was no longer shaking, and it dawned on me that I was probably experiencing physical withdrawal symptoms. It scared the ever loving shit out of me, and I started tapering myself off of it the next morning (which was also a good idea because it was also making me itch like crazy).

I've had a ton of surgeries, and post op pain relief is so tricky for me. I refuse to take Percocet beyond the initial recovery room dose because the itching is just too much, and Vicodin doesn't do shit for me. Mostly I stick to ice and advil, but I know for some surgeries ibuprofen isn't advisable (and long term use wrecks my stomach).

[nikki25]

May 9, 2016 13:49:50 GMT -5 wambam said:

May 9, 2016 13:45:36 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

Okay, because I read this like 3 times and was like, girl, we are on the same page, lol.

Yeah I thought you were saying that OxyContin and oxycodone were different drugs. Reading comprehension fail.

But, I think it kind of proved the point? That even people that know the difference can still read it so quickly, like if on a prescription bottle or being told verbally, and not truly understand what is actually being prescribed. ( Not you, but you get me but) Very easily confused.

[wambam]

May 9, 2016 14:36:18 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

May 9, 2016 13:49:50 GMT -5 wambam said:

Yeah I thought you were saying that OxyContin and oxycodone were different drugs. Reading comprehension fail.

But, I think it kind of proved the point? That even people that know the difference can still read it so quickly, like if on a prescription bottle or being told verbally, and not truly understand what is actually being prescribed. ( Not you, but you get me but) Very easily confused.

For sure. And I worked as a CPhT in college so I am definitely aware of how uninformed the general public tends to be about their own medications.

ETA: That sounded harsher than I meant it. It can definitely be confusing and difficult to navigate. But the majority of the time (IME), people just didn't care to understand what they were taking and why. Not many people accepted counseling from the pharmacist and usually ended up yelling at ME when they didn't understand.