Screentime is a Feminist Issue

[froggy76]

My H is way more of a stickler about screen time than I am.

I made a comment to him once about "mommy guilt" and he seemed mad that I assume he has no guilt. He really does have just as much as I do and worries about feeding her well, spending time with her, making sure she's learning, etc. It's not fair to assume that men don't worry just as much as we do. Then again, I'm the breadwinner and DH handles most of the chores at home so our dynamic is a little different.

[cjeanette]

Pretty sure that a man is going to be judged for too much screen time also.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2016 14:52:31 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

And I wonder if Joanna's .. ahem.. boisterous behavior now is due to too much screen time before 2- i.e., that I fucked her up by not following AAP recommendations.

So I know what you did before 2 with screen time is not impacting her now, so don't worry about that!  However, I do notice if A watches around 2 hours of TV a day or more she behaves so much worse during the rest of the day.  If I keep it around 60-90 minutes she behaves much better for me when it's not on.  I know that might not be an option for everybody to limit it, but I do notice a behavior difference in her based on how much TV she has been watching.

[longtimenopost]

I agree that I followed her until this conclusion: When we glare at mothers who allow their kids to have screen time in public, we aren’t really shaming them for their technology use. We’re shaming them for something much worse. We are shaming them for asserting their own needs. We’re shaming them for actually venturing out, with their children, into the public realm. We’re shaming them for daring to be seen.

IMO, the shaming about technology in public is more about "why can't you teach your children to behave without screens" than "you should be at home"

The mommy guilt at home comes from not having the energy (or desire, frankly) to read the same book 50 times or pretend play with your 3 year old for an hour straight. 

[dcrunnergirl52]

May 10, 2016 15:00:29 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I have mentioned mom guilt to H and he has no idea what I'm talking about. lol. He's very involved but he just doesn't worry about the stuff that I worry about, nor does he even realize there's anything TO worry about a lot of the time. So I'm not just talking out of my ass or making gender stereotypes when I talk about my H and mom guilt.

eta: I guess I did generalize earlier in my post. I just don't hear/read about men feeling guilty about their parenting choices. But maybe they just aren't as likely to talk about their guilt. And maybe it just seems like more judgment is aimed at women because I visit forums and websites aimed at women.

This is my DH too. He never worries about too much screen time. He never worries that he's not spending enough time with the kids or if whether the time with them is quality time. He never frets about leaving work late b/c it will cut into his hours at home with the kids and whether the kids will be sad when he picks them up late. It just would never cross his mind, just as it would never cross his mind to do any of the 1,000 other tasks it takes to manage our lives that I carry out. 

[rootbeerfloat]

My husband worries much more about screen time and vegetables and just about everything than I do. He definitely has Dad Guilt. He doesn't really care about external judgment (and as a man, he doesn't have to), but he has high standards. It is exhausting, honestly.

[kershnic]

Eh. I am having a hard time pinning down why I am having a negative reaction to this.

One thing I think is that I believe excessive screen time is a problem not just for children but for teenagers and adults too. And that's definitely not a gender issue.

I mean, yes, women do a disproportionate amount of childcare, and therefore are viewed to have a disproportionate amount of responsibility for child rearing choices. But I don't think that has any bearing whatsoever on what positive or negative impact formula/disposable diapers/screen time/modern washers and dryers and dishwashers have on children.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2016 15:10:49 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

May 10, 2016 15:06:40 GMT -5 @lindy said:

So I know what you did before 2 with screen time is not impacting her now, so don't worry about that!  However, I do notice if A watches around 2 hours of TV a day or more she behaves so much worse during the rest of the day.  If I keep it around 60-90 minutes she behaves much better for me when it's not on.  I know that might not be an option for everybody to limit it, but I do notice a behavior difference in her based on how much TV she has been watching.

The only thing that I have noticed making a difference with Joanna is spending a lot of time outside. She's still energetic but not as sassy. lol. Unfortunately it's difficult to give her adequate time outside right now. I never really thought my kids would be raised with so little outdoor time, and it makes me sad. My mom just can't have them all running around outside by herself, and we're so busy on the weekends. H does try to take her to the park sometimes.. or he takes her to a brewery and lets her run around in their outdoor space. lol. (They have beanbag toss and ping pong and it's a family place so not as bad as it sounds. He goes with my BIL about once a month and usually takes Joanna.)

eta: now that we have the play house, they go play out there sometimes when we get home while I get their dinner ready. I feel like I'm doing the best I can with what our lives look like right now.

We take A to a brewery a lot to run around too lol, they have a nice outdoor space for kids to run.  I've just started letting A outside by herself (I have no clue why I didn't think of it earlier!) and its awesome, so I hope she continues to want to do that because I don't actually want to sit outside with her.  Doesn't J start preschool in the fall too?  A goes outside a lot at her school so I'm sure J will love preschool next year.

[docholly]

I don't think this is a feminist issue, but I get her point. I think the problem with issues like this is, and the reason they become so extreme and cause mommy wars, is people take what they see/read in the news and run with it without really thinking critically. For example, the stir over Ebola a year or so ago. Ebola is very hard to catch, we had only a few cases, and people were PANICKED because the news was running it 24/7. T.V. time isn't the best parenting choice you can make, breastfeeding has health benefits over formula, BUT, people take these facts/stats and suddenly it becomes... Oh, your kid watches t.v., he is going to be fat and dumb. What a selfish mom for allowing this. Or, you are feeding your baby formula? You must not want your baby to be healthy. There are a thousand decisions we make for our children in their lives. There is always a best one, better ones, good ones, bad ones, etc. It isn't RIGHT decision... WRONG decision, you are going to screw up your kid. One mom might allow more t.v. time, but she reads more to her kids at night. One mom might formula feed, but she ensures they get an hour of outside time a day. It isn't some weird pass/fail test that rests on one decision you make.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2016 15:24:12 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

May 10, 2016 15:19:32 GMT -5 @lindy said:

We take A to a brewery a lot to run around too lol, they have a nice outdoor space for kids to run.  I've just started letting A outside by herself (I have no clue why I didn't think of it earlier!) and its awesome, so I hope she continues to want to do that because I don't actually want to sit outside with her.  Doesn't J start preschool in the fall too?  A goes outside a lot at her school so I'm sure J will love preschool next year.

She does, but it's only for 3 hours. I don't know if they'll get outside. I'm not really sure what VPK will look like! I'm hoping the ILs will take her some days though, and I know she'll be able to spend more time outside there.

I've also started letting them outside alone, but they don't like it! They're so needy. lol. Go play!

A is only there 2.5 hours, and they go outside to play for at least 30 minutes and often have snack outside too. So I bet they will go out at least once a day.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2016 14:52:31 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

On a different note, when the screentime topic comes up, I also always think about how bad it used to be for young people to always "have their noses in books." lol. Now reading would be seen as virtuous.

This is so true. 


With my DS screentime absolutely affects the way he behaves. I noticed a dramatic improvement when I made him go cold turkey with screentime including TV for a month once. I think that sitting and reading would as well though. If he spent a lot of time reading, that would possibly make his mind work a little more, but really it is the "sitting" that is an issue for him. 


For my kids (my boy especially) he needs to MOVE and get energy out or I know what I am in for behavior wise. 

[formerlyak]

I think the author is making a lot of assumptions. I think there are cases, like in a restaurant, where parents (not just mothers) hand a kid a screen to make their life easier. It keeps their kid quiet and occupied while they enjoy their meal. But shouldn't kids learn how to behave in a restaurant without a screen? A meal should be a social experience. How will a kid learn that if they are handed a screen and have no interaction with the older kids and adults at the table? And how is it ok for me to have to listen to a kid's music throughout my meal? True story - I was at PF Changs with my family a few weeks ago and a teenager was at the table next to me with his mom. Mom was texting the whole time and the teen had the music on his iPhone so loud and was holding it up by his ear (which because of table placement was also right by my ear), and I had to listen to that until he left. You bet I glared at that. Because the fact that the mom didn't tell the kid it wasn't ok, was bad parenting.

I think there are times that a screen is totally fine. It gives a parent a break. It has an educational purpose. It allows a mom or dad to shower in peace and know their kid is fine. But I think they are used far too often by lazy parents as an alternative to actual parenting (there is a family in my circle of friends who is like this and we all are getting fed up with the fact that they substitute a screen for actual parenting). Or as a way to seem "cool" to their tween/teen. That isn't a feminist issue at all. It's a lazy parent issue.

[juliette21]

I admittedly didn't read the entire thing because it was long, but I find it fascinating to consider this a feminist issue. I think she hit the nail on the head, that when we engage in hand wringing and pearl clutching over how children are raised, we're really judging mothers' choices. And bemoaning anything that breaks the mother/child connection. Why are we so hysterical over the negative effects of everything? Why is there a study to measure every single decision a parent (mother) makes? It's getting out of control.

[juliette21]

May 10, 2016 15:05:33 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

Pretty sure that a man is going to be judged for too much screen time also.

Really? When they get kudos for changing a diaper or feeding their kids? The bar is set so low for dads, I don't see this happening at all.

[Muddled]

May 10, 2016 15:38:08 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

May 10, 2016 15:05:33 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

Pretty sure that a man is going to be judged for too much screen time also.

Really? When they get kudos for changing a diaper or feeding their kids? The bar is set so low for dads, I don't see this happening at all.

Right? Well, at least he is spending time with his kids.

[docholly]

May 10, 2016 15:35:03 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

I think the author is making a lot of assumptions. I think there are cases, like in a restaurant, where parents (not just mothers) hand a kid a screen to make their life easier. It keeps their kid quiet and occupied while they enjoy their meal. But shouldn't kids learn how to behave in a restaurant without a screen? A meal should be a social experience. How will a kid learn that if they are handed a screen and have no interaction with the older kids and adults at the table? And how is it ok for me to have to listen to a kid's music throughout my meal? True story - I was at PF Changs with my family a few weeks ago and a teenager was at the table next to me with his mom. Mom was texting the whole time and the teen had the music on his iPhone so loud and was holding it up by his ear (which because of table placement was also right by my ear), and I had to listen to that until he left. You bet I glared at that. Because the fact that the mom didn't tell the kid it wasn't ok, was bad parenting.

I think there are times that a screen is totally fine. It gives a parent a break. It has an educational purpose. It allows a mom or dad to shower in peace and know their kid is fine. But I think they are used far too often by lazy parents as an alternative to actual parenting (there is a family in my circle of friends who is like this and we all are getting fed up with the fact that they substitute a screen for actual parenting). Or as a way to seem "cool" to their tween/teen. That isn't a feminist issue at all. It's a lazy parent issue.

Can you please send me a link to where I can order your book on parenting? Also, I would like to know when you discovered your amazing powers of clairvoyance since you are able to rightly determine someone is a terrible, lazy parent just by observing them in a restaurant.  Amazing!  (P.S.- This is not an endorsement of the kid listening to loud music in a restaurant).

[Deleted]

May 10, 2016 15:27:34 GMT -5 @lazerus24 said:

May 10, 2016 14:52:31 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

On a different note, when the screentime topic comes up, I also always think about how bad it used to be for young people to always "have their noses in books." lol. Now reading would be seen as virtuous.

This is so true. 


With my DS screentime absolutely affects the way he behaves. I noticed a dramatic improvement when I made him go cold turkey with screentime including TV for a month once. I think that sitting and reading would as well though. If he spent a lot of time reading, that would possibly make his mind work a little more, but really it is the "sitting" that is an issue for him. 


For my kids (my boy especially) he needs to MOVE and get energy out or I know what I am in for behavior wise. 

I agree! For all 3 of mine it's about moving and burning off energy more than anything. I do limit screen time for them, but I've noticed the real issue is needing to burn off energy. So im often limiting screen time in an effort to get them to move. Like right now we are outside rather than in watching a show. I'm sitting on a blanket, they are running around like crazy people.

The winter is rough when they can't get outside a lot. This year I bought a bunch of punch cards to an indoor play place my mom took them to at least once a week and that helped a lot. I also got one of those small toddler trampolines and would send them to jump when thet were acting like crazies. Now that the weather is nicer it's a lot easier because she takes them out all morning. Their behavior is just so much better when they get out and move!

[longtimenopost]

May 10, 2016 15:35:03 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

I But I think they are used far too often by lazy parents as an alternative to actual parenting (there is a family in my circle of friends who is like this and we all are getting fed up with the fact that they substitute a screen for actual parenting). Or as a way to seem "cool" to their tween/teen. That isn't a feminist issue at all. It's a lazy parent issue.

HA this is exactly what I said above WRT what people are really judging. Thanks for validating!

In reality, I think there's a line where it becomes too much but really, half an hour on a phone so a mom can eat a meal in peace for once is better than a meltdown and rushing to pay the check before dragging the screaming kid out of the restaurant, which is how it used to go down. OR mom taking the kid outside while dad and siblings eat in peace

ETA: I imagine you agree, but experiences color our views. 

[Jalapeñomel]

I'll fully admit that I have used the tv to be a lazy parent. But when you deal with teenagers for hours upon hours all day, and know I have a stack of grading and lesson plans I have to do after my son goes to bed for another couple hours, sometimes I just don't want to have to deal with his 2-year-old meltdowns on a Wednesday, so I turn on the tv to calm him down and his eat his dinner.

I cannot predict the future, but I'm fairly certain he will be ok. And if he's not ok, I doubt I'll look back at when he was a two-year-old, and say that maybe if he didn't have the tv on, he would've been ok.

And that mom guilt is real...check it out in this thread.

[jeaniebueller]

May 10, 2016 14:52:31 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Interesting.. I don't know if I agree completely with her conclusions, but it's interesting to think about this as a feminist issue. I do think that things that make mothers' lives easier seem to be viewed with a lot of skepticism or subject to controversy, and we play right into it. Why do we have to have mommy wars over this crap? Guys seem more likely to just do their own thing and not worry about what the dad next door is doing.

My H has zero guilt over screen time, as far as I can tell. The tv is on 100% of the time he's home with the kids, either he is playing video games or Netflix is on for the girls. Sometimes he's playing games on the tv and Joanna is playing on her tablet.  According to him, his time with them is easy peasy! Ha. Meanwhile, while I also allow a fair amount of screentime, I feel guilty about it and make a point to turn it off for periods of time. And I wonder if Joanna's .. ahem.. boisterous behavior now is due to too much screen time before 2- i.e., that I fucked her up by not following AAP recommendations.

Do not think that way! DS watched a ton of TV before 2. Far more than DD has. And he is quite timid and shy. Their personalities are their personalities IMO.

[imojoebunny]

Screen time and food seem to be the mother judgements that do not go away, the older my kids get.

My kids have a fair amount of screen time, mostly on weekend mornings, so DH and I can sleep late, to make up for his work schedule that doesn't allow for extra sleep, and often includes travel. They do get it other times, sometimes TV, sometimes computers, and sometimes kindle. It is going to be part of their life, a big part, so I feel like it is needed for them to have some. We started computers this year because DD is in 4th grade and DS in 1st, and both schools encourage it at their ages for projects and supplemental math, though I question the one that does in 1st grade. Have they ever tried to end a "math game" of a 6 year old? The world is ending. Not a productive use of my mom card.

I love the kindle because of audible and books. They will listen/read to books for hours, in the car, at friends homes who do not have fun things to do, and in the doctor/lawyer/DMV line. We just went out for dinner and had a discussion about population density and easily pulled up the average number of people per square Km in each country to demonstrate why water might be more expensive, and not free in restaurants in some countries. Judge away people. I am well rested, my kids are happy, well "read", and savvy enough to know that I know everything they are looking at, so it better be "appropriate". My DS got an average of 22,000 steps on his fitbit last week, despite time off to charge it for a couple of days at school. Technology yes.

[Deleted]

I fucking love screen time. I fucking love formula. My kid is fucking awesome

#notevenalittlesorry

[lala]

May 10, 2016 18:45:32 GMT -5 tryingtobehappy said:

May 10, 2016 15:35:03 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

I think the author is making a lot of assumptions. I think there are cases, like in a restaurant, where parents (not just mothers) hand a kid a screen to make their life easier. It keeps their kid quiet and occupied while they enjoy their meal. But shouldn't kids learn how to behave in a restaurant without a screen? A meal should be a social experience. How will a kid learn that if they are handed a screen and have no interaction with the older kids and adults at the table? And how is it ok for me to have to listen to a kid's music throughout my meal? True story - I was at PF Changs with my family a few weeks ago and a teenager was at the table next to me with his mom. Mom was texting the whole time and the teen had the music on his iPhone so loud and was holding it up by his ear (which because of table placement was also right by my ear), and I had to listen to that until he left. You bet I glared at that. Because the fact that the mom didn't tell the kid it wasn't ok, was bad parenting.

I think there are times that a screen is totally fine. It gives a parent a break. It has an educational purpose. It allows a mom or dad to shower in peace and know their kid is fine. But I think they are used far too often by lazy parents as an alternative to actual parenting (there is a family in my circle of friends who is like this and we all are getting fed up with the fact that they substitute a screen for actual parenting). Or as a way to seem "cool" to their tween/teen. That isn't a feminist issue at all. It's a lazy parent issue.

I don't understand this. Why would you glare at her? Why not keep your judgements to yourself. She was not harming the kid...why make the mom uncomfortable? What did you gain by this?

Have you never glared at a rude person?

I would be super annoyed in that situation. It isn't acceptable to listen to your own personal music at a restaurant. It's rude regardless of the age of the person playing it.

[awkwardpenguin]

Her evidence is Google searches of "kids screen time"? Oookay.

By this logic, all parenting choices that make life easier are a "feminist issue". This article is ridiculously eyeroll worthy.

[Willis Jackson]

Two things:

-The Shakers were a successful alternative community? Huh? They were celibate and failed to attract new members so they died out.

-I recently read Huck's Raft about the history of childhood. Every generation freaks out about the newfangled shit kids are into. In the 30s, people were sure that comic books were going to cause serious harm to children. The Tipper Gores of the world panicked about music lyrics. It's always something.

[pizzapizza]

May 10, 2016 14:52:31 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Interesting.. I don't know if I agree completely with her conclusions, but it's interesting to think about this as a feminist issue. I do think that things that make mothers' lives easier seem to be viewed with a lot of skepticism or subject to controversy, and we play right into it. Why do we have to have mommy wars over this crap? Guys seem more likely to just do their own thing and not worry about what the dad next door is doing.

My H has zero guilt over screen time, as far as I can tell. The tv is on 100% of the time he's home with the kids, either he is playing video games or Netflix is on for the girls. Sometimes he's playing games on the tv and Joanna is playing on her tablet.  According to him, his time with them is easy peasy! Ha. Meanwhile, while I also allow a fair amount of screentime, I feel guilty about it and make a point to turn it off for periods of time. And I wonder if Joanna's .. ahem.. boisterous behavior now is due to too much screen time before 2- i.e., that I fucked her up by not following AAP recommendations.

She turns on the tv when she gets up at 6:30 am and watches it until we leave at 9. (Often she'll play at the same time). I don't love it, but what else am I supposed to do? I need the tv babysitter while I get ready for work. My mom also lets her watch it for a couple of hours in the afternoon so she can get a break while the younger kids nap. It's the only thing that will make Joanna be quiet and calm.

On a different note, when the screentime topic comes up, I also always think about how bad it used to be for young people to always "have their noses in books." lol. Now reading would be seen as virtuous.

My 2 year old is rambunctious as shit and she doesn't watch a ton of tv so I would not worry about screen time being a driver for rambunctious behavior.  

[darnkatz]

Screen time saves my sanity daily. I fucking love screen time. My husband works late afternoon into night and getting anything done is a hardship without TV. I have a seven year old who needs to do homework and a three year old who is into everything.

[anna7602]

May 10, 2016 15:38:19 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I actually always forget that I can use the tablet in public, so I just suffer through my kids acting like maniacs along with all the other good moms. lol.

eta: I also feel like people are probably judging me for snapping at Joanna but they didn't hear the last  5  times I told her to stop doing whatever she's doing. You can't win unless you're just lucky enough to have calm, compliant children.

I got called out on the street the other day for snapping at DD. it was sobering for about a minute and then I realized I wanted to chase after the person and yell, "it is the end of spring break and I have spent nearly every single day of the last seven with both of my children running around town with little to no breaks, YOU ASSHOLE!"

[Jalapeñomel]

May 10, 2016 20:13:53 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

May 10, 2016 15:38:19 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I actually always forget that I can use the tablet in public, so I just suffer through my kids acting like maniacs along with all the other good moms. lol.

eta: I also feel like people are probably judging me for snapping at Joanna but they didn't hear the last  5  times I told her to stop doing whatever she's doing. You can't win unless you're just lucky enough to have calm, compliant children.

I got called out on the street the other day for snapping at DD. it was sobering for about a minute and then I realized I wanted to chase after the person and yell, "it is the end of spring break and I have spent nearly every single day of the last seven with both of my children running around town with little to no breaks, YOU ASSHOLE!"

What the fuck.

[chedifuen]

Occasionally, I have a hard day and just want to sit in a restaurant, drink my beer and eat my fattening food in peace without having to talk to my kids about every mundane detail of their day. If anyone wants to glare at me over it, I'll flip them the fuck off.