Montessori questions

[halfpint]

I've posted before about my potty training concerns. 

B is enrolled to start in a Montessori 3-6 class in the fall. He will JUST have turned 3 at the end of August, so I will assume one of the youngest even of kids his age.

We've paid several hundred in registration/application fees so far, and the first tuition payment is due this week. 

They expect him to be fully potty trained, able to wipe self and pull up his own pants. I think he might be okay, but it's iffy. We are at the point where he will stay dry all day if you take him to use the potty every hour or two, but he has no care about pooping in his underwear. Like, none. He'll tell you he did it right away, but never before. He's pooped on the potty exactly once ever. And pulling up his own pants and underwear is an exercise in futility - he's just as happy to run around with them around his ankles, and then trip and fall. 

I did speak to the school - there's a bathroom in the class, and they take them often. They'll also allow them a pull up for nap time, but they have to put it on themselves. They expect some accidents the first few weeks, but they make the kids clean up after themselves, and if it carries on too long where he's having frequent accidents, they "may recommend you find some place else". 

Now I'm starting to wonder if he's just too young overall, and this could be a bad fit? He's not great with transitions - he still cries when we drop him at preschool, and he's been going for 6+ months. He's never been the kid to sit and listen quietly, or really listen to direction at all. Not totally atypical of a 2-year old, but hard to imagine him in how I picture a typical Montessori classroom. And hard to imagine him cleaning up his own accidents. I mean, I love the responsibility and independence it fosters, I'm just not sure if it's too much for my kid. 

I have to decide by Friday. Once the first payment is in, it's non-refundable. If we wait to see how he does in September, we could be out 40% of the annual tuition. And we'd have no childcare/preschool for him. I'm really struggling with this decision. 

Thoughts on how to determine if we should proceed? 

[LoveTrains]

Do they have tuition insurance? Many independent schools offer this. You pay an extra fee for the insurance and if you withdraw the insurance gives you a refund and pays the balance to the school.

[lilac05]

DS1 just finished 2 years of Montessori. It's amazing what kids can accomplish on their own when it's just what is expected, no additional help is available, and all of the other kids are doing it! They learn very quickly, but the teacher is not going to let him run around naked in the meantime, either. Teachers will help, when they see that it is absolutely necessary, but they will not interrupt a child who is actively working to do it himself. And then when the child figures it out, they are SO proud of their accomplishments (which is acknowledged by the teacher).

As far as the toileting stuff at home, you could try for a couple of days and see what happens. If he leaves his pants down, let him. See what he actually does. If he trips, kindly point out that his pants were down and that's why he tripped. Tell him that he has the power to fix that problem & encourage him to fix it himself (fight the urge to fix it for him). It's not done in a mean way, it's empowering kids to learn that they have control and can fix their own problems...even when they're two. Do you have him help you clean up after dirty diapers? I've just started that with my almost 3 year old. There's no shaming or getting in trouble. I'm just tired of changing diapers and have asked for his help. He's learning that it's messy and gross, and he has the power to make that yucky job disappear.

DS1 was crazy hyperactive when he was 3. He was a library story time dropout because I couldn't get him to sit. Organized classes and programs weren't for us. Ultimately, that's what drove us to Montessori. A traditional preschool classroom has stuff hanging all over the walls (& often ceiling!), bright colors everywhere, music, noise, etc. There are a lot of distractions. Montessori is calm, decor is more boring, and controlled. He excelled in focusing in that environment (& still struggles with activity in more distracting environments).

Ultimately, we chose not to send DS2 to that Montessori program, though our issues were more with his school than Montessori. (All schools are different. Though she was Montessori certified, she did many things her own way, which you will see frequently. It shouldn't happen, but it does.)

[Marmee]

My DD3 wasn't potty trained until a couple months before Montessori started and she did have poop issues/leakage. She turned 3 about then too. She wasn't ever kicked out or anything, I just sent new extra clothes when she brought home soiled. She's done fine, not a hint of keeping her back or anything in the 4yrs since (she's the youngest by far). She tried to escape/run after me or cry for weeks when school started. My DD2 pulled that same crap too only with more kicking and screaming. Funny because my oldest never shed a tear, it's just personality. And God knows there was the the most hyper kid I've ever seen in her class too. He's now going into Kindy year & seems way more settled down. I do know of one family with twin boys who had to keep one in daycare because he wasn't potty trained yet but sent the other (& the next year they were both in year 2-pre-K). So I'd say if he wasn't at all potty trained I'd give up. Guess it depends on the teacher. My DD4 starts in Fall and definitely will forget to pee if not reminded but I'm not worried...but like I say, I know her school seems pretty tolerant.

[rupertpenny]

My B is about the same age as yours and attends a Montessori school. To be honest I credit them with the fact she is potty trained at all. The tiny toilet and the peer pressure made a huge difference for her. Since they are flexible in the first few weeks I doubt you will end up with a problem. I'm sure B will want to use the potty by himself like everyone else in class.

[pugz]

Have you tried a sticker chart for poop?

[mandapanda18]

I paid for my nephew to attend montessori school (starting at age 3). He was literally only 1/2 potty trained when he started. They took him often enough, it was never a huge issues. They worked with him (they had aids for his age) and helped to teach him to pull up his own pants/undies. He was never kicked out!

[halfpint]

Jul 6, 2016 4:39:59 GMT -5 pugz said:

Have you tried a sticker chart for poop?

We have a sticker chart for potty in general, and "really cool stickers", plus a small stash of prizes for poop. He just hasn't done it to actually earn a prize. 

He poops so fast, there's no warning. He'll say, "Did I poop?", and that's it. There's poop in his underwear. 

Once he said, "POOP!", and we ran him to the potty and caught it in time, but that was like some kind of unicorn event. 

[halfpint]

Jul 5, 2016 23:30:04 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Do they have tuition insurance? Many independent schools offer this. You pay an extra fee for the insurance and if you withdraw the insurance gives you a refund and pays the balance to the school.

No insurance. 

[cricketwife]

What is the alternative?

I feel like once he's there, he would probably be ok, but it's a big gamble and I'm not sure how much I'd want to risk the money. Would he do Montessori from ages 4-6? I wonder if that might be enough to still see the advantages of a Montessori education ?

[SJ]

I would probably not risk the money on the off chance you can get him trained by Friday.

[franklin]

Frank started at a montessori school when he was 1.5 and it was really the best thing we've done for him.

He started in the "toddler room" and my biggest concern was potty training because they introduce it around that age and we hadn't even really approached it at home at that time. They had the kids in underwear all day (they may have used diapers for naps?) and a bathroom in their room which they brought them to frequently and was always available for them to use whenever they needed it. We tried to stay consistent and do the same things at home - underwear only unless he was sleeping, frequent bathroom trips, etc. He caught on pretty quickly and went a lot better than I had imagined.

I was also really concerned about his personality and how it would fit with the montessori approach because he has so much energy, likes to talk and interact with everyone, and is very busy. It wasn't an issue for him the in the toddler room because they really did just play, although it was practical, everyday items that helped them learn, but it took a little bit of work/adjustment when he moved to the next classroom at about 2/2.5. The teachers were great and he really learned to focus on the work he was doing and he's been able to do that outside of school as well.

We decided to enroll Frank in public school for kindergarten this coming year (his montessori school when to 8th grade) and they really helped prepare him for the transition. Montessori was a such a great thing for him, and as cheesy as it sounds, I don't think he'd be where he is today if we hadn't enrolled him there.

[lo]

My DD started Montessori at 14 months and was potty trained by 17 months. I mean, she was interested and ready, but it's crazy how independent they become and the new things they learn. I would still keep him enrolled. At least at our school, the approach to potty training is very gentle and encouraging and the kids pick it up quickly.

[halfpint]

Jul 5, 2016 23:51:15 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

DS1 just finished 2 years of Montessori. It's amazing what kids can accomplish on their own when it's just what is expected, no additional help is available, and all of the other kids are doing it! They learn very quickly, but the teacher is not going to let him run around naked in the meantime, either. Teachers will help, when they see that it is absolutely necessary, but they will not interrupt a child who is actively working to do it himself. And then when the child figures it out, they are SO proud of their accomplishments (which is acknowledged by the teacher).

As far as the toileting stuff at home, you could try for a couple of days and see what happens. If he leaves his pants down, let him. See what he actually does. If he trips, kindly point out that his pants were down and that's why he tripped. Tell him that he has the power to fix that problem & encourage him to fix it himself (fight the urge to fix it for him). It's not done in a mean way, it's empowering kids to learn that they have control and can fix their own problems...even when they're two. Do you have him help you clean up after dirty diapers? I've just started that with my almost 3 year old. There's no shaming or getting in trouble. I'm just tired of changing diapers and have asked for his help. He's learning that it's messy and gross, and he has the power to make that yucky job disappear.

DS1 was crazy hyperactive when he was 3. He was a library story time dropout because I couldn't get him to sit. Organized classes and programs weren't for us. Ultimately, that's what drove us to Montessori. A traditional preschool classroom has stuff hanging all over the walls (& often ceiling!), bright colors everywhere, music, noise, etc. There are a lot of distractions. Montessori is calm, decor is more boring, and controlled. He excelled in focusing in that environment (& still struggles with activity in more distracting environments).

Ultimately, we chose not to send DS2 to that Montessori program, though our issues were more with his school than Montessori. (All schools are different. Though she was Montessori certified, she did many things her own way, which you will see frequently. It shouldn't happen, but it does.)

This is helpful. I know I get impatient and do things for him even beyond pulling up his pants. We're just always in a hurry  

[halfpint]

Jul 6, 2016 10:39:52 GMT -5 cricketwife said:

What is the alternative?

I feel like once he's there, he would probably be ok, but it's a big gamble and I'm not sure how much I'd want to risk the money. Would he do Montessori from ages 4-6? I wonder if that might be enough to still see the advantages of a Montessori education ?

He'd stay with his current daycare/preschool, which I don't love. Especially the older classrooms, which he'd age into in a few months. I'm okay with his current teachers, but it's just an atmosphere of noise and kind of chaotic. 

[SJ]

Jul 6, 2016 11:28:17 GMT -5 halfpint said:

Jul 6, 2016 10:39:52 GMT -5 cricketwife said:

What is the alternative?

I feel like once he's there, he would probably be ok, but it's a big gamble and I'm not sure how much I'd want to risk the money. Would he do Montessori from ages 4-6? I wonder if that might be enough to still see the advantages of a Montessori education ?

He'd stay with his current daycare/preschool, which I don't love. Especially the older classrooms, which he'd age into in a few months. I'm okay with his current teachers, but it's just an atmosphere of noise and kind of chaotic. 

Can he move over to the Montessori later as soon as he is potty trained? Or do they only accept incoming students in the fall at 3 years old.

Either way, I would probably start using the Montessori "rules" at home (him pulling up pants, etc) to get ready.

[halfpint]

Jul 6, 2016 11:40:01 GMT -5 SJ said:

Jul 6, 2016 11:28:17 GMT -5 halfpint said:

He'd stay with his current daycare/preschool, which I don't love. Especially the older classrooms, which he'd age into in a few months. I'm okay with his current teachers, but it's just an atmosphere of noise and kind of chaotic. 

Can he move over to the Montessori later as soon as he is potty trained? Or do they only accept incoming students in the fall at 3 years old.

Either way, I would probably start using the Montessori "rules" at home (him pulling up pants, etc) to get ready.

He could the following year when he's 4, but have always heard so much about the 3 year cycle and how beneficial it is. I'd want to move him at 3 anyway, because I don't love his current place, and especially don't like the 3 year classroom - it's open plan (for a preschool, wtf), and I've heard some of the teachers be just kind of rude and condescending to the kids. Not a fan. He goes up to that room occasionally to keep ratios, and I've expressed some concerns to the director. They told my kid he was "nasty" for pooping in his Pull Up. 

It seems like I should move him now, and then let him stay put for a couple of years. 

[SJ]

Jul 6, 2016 15:14:07 GMT -5 halfpint said:

Jul 6, 2016 11:40:01 GMT -5 SJ said:

Can he move over to the Montessori later as soon as he is potty trained? Or do they only accept incoming students in the fall at 3 years old.

Either way, I would probably start using the Montessori "rules" at home (him pulling up pants, etc) to get ready.

He could the following year when he's 4, but have always heard so much about the 3 year cycle and how beneficial it is. I'd want to move him at 3 anyway, because I don't love his current place, and especially don't like the 3 year classroom - it's open plan (for a preschool, wtf), and I've heard some of the teachers be just kind of rude and condescending to the kids. Not a fan. He goes up to that room occasionally to keep ratios, and I've expressed some concerns to the director. They told my kid he was "nasty" for pooping in his Pull Up. 

It seems like I should move him now, and then let him stay put for a couple of years. 

I was thinking more like if he's potty trained in October could you start him then? Or does it have to line up with the start of the year.

I agree about the 3 year cycle and all of that.  (ETA: although it's very likely I will move DD to public K vs keeping her in Montessori for the final year....)

[halfpint]

Jul 6, 2016 15:15:11 GMT -5 SJ said:

Jul 6, 2016 15:14:07 GMT -5 halfpint said:

He could the following year when he's 4, but have always heard so much about the 3 year cycle and how beneficial it is. I'd want to move him at 3 anyway, because I don't love his current place, and especially don't like the 3 year classroom - it's open plan (for a preschool, wtf), and I've heard some of the teachers be just kind of rude and condescending to the kids. Not a fan. He goes up to that room occasionally to keep ratios, and I've expressed some concerns to the director. They told my kid he was "nasty" for pooping in his Pull Up. 

It seems like I should move him now, and then let him stay put for a couple of years. 

I was thinking more like if he's potty trained in October could you start him then? Or does it have to line up with the start of the year.

I agree about the 3 year cycle and all of that.  (ETA: although it's very likely I will move DD to public K vs keeping her in Montessori for the final year....)

I think they'd give our spot away, there's a huge wait list. 

And they do basically run like a school year...that's a good question, though, I mean...we're paying the tuition at that point, what's it to them if we keep him out for a few weeks and then he joins in. But that means we'd need to pay double someplace until he's ready to roll. 

[pugz]

our preschool had a couple of kids start late (like 2-3 weeks) while they were still mastering PTing

[happyday]

Our school wouldn't be down with that. They have to be 100% independent in the 3-6 year old room. I'm surprised that they take them to the restroom. If you think they're truly flexible I would go for it - if not, I would pull him. In our school they would recommend the younger children's community until January when he's more independent in the restroom.

[ilikedonuts]

I would check that they would even be okay with you paying but not sending him for a couple months. The montessori school my oldest's best friend goes to would not be okay with that because that means they miss the entire transition period that is designed to help make it as smooth as possible for all kids. Which with a kid that has issues with transitions, I would absolutely want.