S/O Dealbreakers - change?

[starburst604]

There were a couple of comments in that thread about how most people never really can change. Got me thinking about myself, and my relationship. One thing about myself that I used to be really bad about was my finances. Overspending and getting myself into debt, not paying things on time, ruining my credit, etc. For a long time I just stuck my head in the sand and scraped by. Over the last few years I've gotten much better about that (well, a good increase in pay certainly helped a lot). I've repaired my credit and am far more responsible with my finances. Nothing ever gets paid late.

When T and I broke up for a time, one of the major things that contributed to that was what I felt was his irresponsibility about some "adult things", money being chief among them. His credit got ruined after his divorce, and while he paid off the debts he never did anything about reestablishing good credit. He made good money but didn't save. To make a long story short it bugged me that he brushed off my suggestions to fix this, while telling me he wanted a future with me and it led to friction.

Before we reconciled he took the necessary steps and has continued to follow through since and has made great progress (gotten credit counseling, saved quite a bit, etc). I was willing to give him a chance because I've been in the same position but changed it. But of course it's always in the back of my head. Does anyone ever really change? Have you ever made a big change that stuck?

[achase123]

I think that him changing something like that was a huge sign of his maturity and the strength of your relationship. I haven't seen people really change a lot, so I have no specific examples. Most of the time I've thought someone needed to change was in cases where it would be extremely difficult because it involved addiction-XH was an alcoholic and addict, and I think that V had a problem with alcohol as well.

I could see something like finances being a little bit easier to change. I dated a guy who was more introverted than me. To make me happy he made more of an effort to be outgoing. That was something that came up a few years into us dating though, so I felt like it was worth working on.

In BK's post, I think one of the biggest things that stands out for me is that you shouldn't already be thinking of things that are annoying, or you would change, right off the bat. That's why I knew V and I wouldn't last. There were things that I immediately noticed that I knew I couldn't handle, if I was being completely honest with myself.

I'm a firm believer in thinking things should be easy or relatively so at first, and if things come up later, THEN you work on them. That's the reason you date someone, to find out if you're compatible. IF they're bothering you a few weeks in and you want to fix them, obviously it's not right.

[blackkitty]

People change if they really want to.
I am trying to change the way I approach relationships. I don't know if it will stick but I know that I want to change.

[ECB]

I find the concept that "people can't change" to be sad, to be honest.

I make an effort to pay attention to what's going on around me and really taking in different experiences, and I DO feel that I've changed a lot over time.

I DO agree that a person has to want to change/ be open to it. You can't force someone to change.

But people CAN change and do. All the time. I've seen it personally, I've seen it w/ family and friends too. It's not always easy, but it's absolutely possible.

[starburst604]

Yeah I think the key thing is WANTING to change, truly wanting it, and for yourself not just for someone else. The fact that he started making changes before we got back together was big for me. He knew he needed to grow up even if we weren't going to be together. I was surprised to tell you the truth, because after his last serious relationship ended 3 years ago he went into a bad tailspin and I figured he'd do the same after me.

[dakotadangerdog]

Sept 6, 2012 12:13:48 GMT -5 ECB said:

I find the concept that "people can't change" to be sad, to be honest.

I make an effort to pay attention to what's going on around me and really taking in different experiences, and I DO feel that I've changed a lot over time.

I DO agree that a person has to want to change/ be open to it. You can't force someone to change.

But people CAN change and do. All the time. I've seen it personally, I've seen it w/ family and friends too. It's not always easy, but it's absolutely possible.

I think people growing and changing over time through experiences is one thing. But wanting a person to chance a specific aspect about themselves solely because you don't like it is completely different.

[ECB]

Sept 6, 2012 12:19:08 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

I think people growing and changing over time through experiences is one thing. But wanting a person to chance a specific aspect about themselves solely because you don't like it is completely different.

I understand that. But people are throwing that comment out as a blanket statement. "People don't change".

ALL of it is about whether a person is open to change for themselves. If they are open to change - whether it's just through going through life and taking it in, or someone has said to them "if you don't change X, I'm leaving" - then they can change. It just depends on where the motivation for the change comes from.

[achase123]

Sept 6, 2012 12:19:08 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

Sept 6, 2012 12:13:48 GMT -5 ECB said:

I find the concept that "people can't change" to be sad, to be honest.

I make an effort to pay attention to what's going on around me and really taking in different experiences, and I DO feel that I've changed a lot over time.

I DO agree that a person has to want to change/ be open to it. You can't force someone to change.

But people CAN change and do. All the time. I've seen it personally, I've seen it w/ family and friends too. It's not always easy, but it's absolutely possible.

I think people growing and changing over time through experiences is one thing. But wanting a person to chance a specific aspect about themselves solely because you don't like it is completely different.

This. Completely. I know that I've changed through my experiences and past. But if I'm dating someone and there's something about them that I'm completely uncomfortable with (such as smoking, drinking, declaring that they never want to get married and/or have children, they are doing something illegal, etc) in MY experience, either they aren't going to change those things, or they will attempt or say they will change them but it won't stick. The changes have to be for the right reasons, and because the person WANTS to better themselves.

Bridezilla is a perfect example of someone trying to change a partner and failing. She isn't comfortable with people smoking pot, and never has been. It's one of her dealbreakers. Her DH (BF at the time) smoked on occasion. She told him she absolutely could NOT be with someone who did it even once in awhile. He promised he would never do it again. Now he just does it when she's not around (V told me this) but she's very pleased with herself that she got him to see the error of his ways.

Same thing with chewing tobacco. She told him he needed to stop this. Now he does it behind her back. She's told me numerous times how happy she is that he quit and I have to bite my tongue because I know otherwise.

[explorer2001]

I don't think people can't change, but I do believe most people won't change because change isn't always easy and what they are doing works for them on some level. You can't change anyone else, they have to want to change and change themselves. The op is a good example of someone choosing to change. I had a similar conversation with my ex bf. He didn't want to change and didn't do so. It all depends on the person, the timing, etc.

[jojoandleo]

I think people CAN change, but they have to WANT to change, and most people don't. They may try and change FOR YOU, but unless they do it for themselves, it won't last. People often "change" for the wrong reasons, meaning they will eventually revert back to the bad behavior.

[livinitup]

My father is always on time or early. For everything. My mom may need to rush, but she is always on time, too.

My sister is always late for family plans. Sometimes very late. I don't know why, she is quite professional, organized and ontime in her friendships and work life.

This really bothers my mother and causes a great deal of stress while we all wait around and then my mom complains. Its an annoying and awful way to start family time - phone calls that "we just left", apologies, explanations, etc. I would often hear about the drama that "Sister was late again" caused.

I finally had to keep saying to my mother "She's not going to change." - "You have to accept and expect her to be late. Because she is 35 years old, and has been late to almost every family function since she left your home 10 years ago."

Can she change? Sure. It's just getting somewhere on time, she has the skill set. But it's a reflection of how she manages her life - so she would have to change a LOT of other things, over a long period of time, consistently, to expect it. So, I just accept that "She's not going to change" and factor that in to my expectations and not get annoyed about it. And I encourage my mother to do the same and won't let her complain to me anymore.

[starburst604]

Sept 6, 2012 13:07:19 GMT -5 livinitup said:

My father is always on time or early. For everything. My mom may need to rush, but she is always on time, too.

My sister is always late for family plans. Sometimes very late. I don't know why, she is quite professional, organized and ontime in her friendships and work life.

This really bothers my mother and causes a great deal of stress while we all wait around and then my mom complains. Its an annoying and awful way to start family time - phone calls that "we just left", apologies, explanations, etc. I would often hear about the drama that "Sister was late again" caused.

I finally had to keep saying to my mother "She's not going to change." - "You have to accept and expect her to be late. Because she is 35 years old, and has been late to almost every family function since she left your home 10 years ago."

Can she change? Sure. It's just getting somewhere on time, she has the skill set. But it's a reflection of how she manages her life - so she would have to change a LOT of other things, over a long period of time, consistently, to expect it. So, I just accept that "She's not going to change" and factor that in to my expectations and not get annoyed about it. And I encourage my mother to do the same and won't let her complain to me anymore.

Funny, I've had a friend of 20 years just like that. I used to let it drive me bonkers, now I just plan for it. It used to be she'd say "I'll pick you up at 9:30" so I'd be ready and sit and stew for 30 minutes or so. Now I just take my time and don't really plan to be ready at 9:30, and on the rare occasions she shows up on time she's fine with waiting for me, I mean she can't really complain! It does seem like punctuality is one thing that is really, really tough for someone to change!

[blondnearby]

I am at the point, having just gone through a break up, where I am reevaluating where I am at and where I want to be. There are a few things I discovered over my past relationship that I don't particularly care for and I am taking the steps to change them for me. Like my communication skills and my passive aggressive nature. I have also learned that my illness effects my moods and behavior (a lot of it is brought on by hormones) and I need help in learning to cope and deal with those changes. I think that until I get a handle on my illness pursuing a serious relationship should not be on my list at all. I may chose to date though, just to get out of the house and meet new people.

[lovelybb]

Sept 6, 2012 16:48:15 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I think people can and do change, but as others have said here, it's got to be something they really want to do.

I agree, but I think people have to realize that if you're going to make your marriage work, you're both going to have to change a bit for your partners. I think it's unrealistic to say "I want to marry someone who's never going to change me". Obviously key values, etc. don't count but marriage takes so much compromise and learning how to communicate with different styles, adjusting how you show affection so the other person sees it, ie. love languages.

I think you have to be willing to change a bit as a matter of respect, but it has to be your choice... not a demand from your partner.

[heavenly]

I had gone through massive changes within myself and this always going to be an ongoing process that never stop. This meant I had to face the ugly truth about myself and take responsibilities. With that said, I fully believe people can change.

From my own perspective from personal experiences and watching those around me, it takes a good amount of time, even years for the change to be ingrained and fully convincible. For big issue, if someone can change overnight, it seems like it would raise a red flag for me. People can act for a short amount of time but not for long term.

[wrathofkuus]

I think that being a jaw-flapper like that is just a basic personality trait, and either you like it or you don't. Since you don't, I'd move on.

ed: I just realized that I posted this response in the wrong thread. Whoops.

[jade28]

I think people change all the time if they are self aware and reflective and want to make a change to make their lives better. Sometimes they change for someone else because they realize having that person in their life makes their life better. So even then, it's still ultimately something they do for themselves and a decision that has to come from them...not someone else. I never respond well to someone telling me to change or even asking me to change. I have instinctual self preservation reactions haha. But if I see that my behavior is ultimately hurting me or hurting someone I love then I will undoubtedly work on it but I also have to know which things I can't change...no matter how much I love someone else...

And this is why you have to know yourself, really know yourself before you can commit to someone else. You have to know which things are innately you - things you just cannot change - and which things about you are open to changing and able to change. You have to know the type of person you want to be and find someone who accepts that.

Also, to be in a relationship, you don't necessarily have to "change" for the person but you do have to be committed and motivated to being a happy and healthy person and being a good, attentive, loving partner and showing that love in ways the other person can receive. If there aren't deal breakers and both people are committed to being good partners, I don't think people need to change, they just need to be good people haha.