:: sigh:: Fucking Charles Murray, man! I wish they'd make him recant his "research", and make him publically admit he gladly accepted research dollars from well known white supremacy groups. Yet sadly, he's still cited and considered a pillar of present day social sciences. Please see below for some of the many reasons he's vile as fuck! www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/charles-murray
Statistically speaking, Murray's not even a good research scientist. His research methods are questionable and sloppy. He's right on par with the 9 out 10 dentists who prefer Crest, because Proctor and Gamble pays big bucks to support the scientific findings they want to attain.
But what do I know. Apparently, I came in with a bubble score of 18. I'm a first generation "ethnic" child of dark non- Eurpoean immigrants, who usually must avoid white blue collar areas, as they're neither safe nor welcoming for those who are truly "Un-American" like me. Charles Murrary can go fuck himself.
Just re-quoting @kirkette since people still seem to be posting their scores and not reading
I think the problem with all of us is that we read page one and then reply. We don't ignore the comments that are relevant, important etc - we just want to post so bad. Happened in cute kids - people just reply to page 1. Nobody really wants to see all your scores, they just want you to read their score. We are a little self centred. This is most of us.
I think the problem with all of us is that we read page one and then reply. We don't ignore the comments that are relevant, important etc - we just want to post so bad. Happened in cute kids - people just reply to page 1. Nobody really wants to see all your scores, they just want you to read their score. We are a little self centred. This is most of us.
Even if that's true, which I'm not really touching with a ten foot pole, you'd think people would be a little more attuned to the idea of stopping that practice, given the "I'm going to be better" context of the past few days.
Yes. You would think. I feel like having been here for 200 yrs, I always read to the end. And sometimes it's a lot. But you never want to even like a post at the beginning if things get all turned around by the end. I never read that ML post that was 26 pages back in February about booby and emails to her work. I read it 3 days ago. It was super long. I didn't finish it because I had to eat and pee and stuff. However, I did notice my mind changed about 3 times during the thread. More information came out, the whole topic changed and I learned. Because I waited. But I'm not perfect. Sometimes I just want to post photos or tell my story. It happens IRL too. I have had to train myself to listen and not interrupt even when my news is so so so exciting.
Even if that's true, which I'm not really touching with a ten foot pole, you'd think people would be a little more attuned to the idea of stopping that practice, given the "I'm going to be better" context of the past few days.
Yes. You would think. I feel like having been here for 200 yrs, I always read to the end. And sometimes it's a lot. But you never want to even like a post at the beginning if things get all turned around by the end. I never read that ML post that was 26 pages back in February about booby and emails to her work. I read it 3 days ago. It was super long. I didn't finish it because I had to eat and pee and stuff. However, I did notice my mind changed about 3 times during the thread. More information came out, the whole topic changed and I learned. Because I waited. But I'm not perfect. Sometimes I just want to post photos or tell my story. It happens IRL too. I have had to train myself to listen and not interrupt even when my news is so so so exciting.
Yes. You would think. I feel like having been here for 200 yrs, I always read to the end. And sometimes it's a lot. But you never want to even like a post at the beginning if things get all turned around by the end. I never read that ML post that was 26 pages back in February about booby and emails to her work. I read it 3 days ago. It was super long. I didn't finish it because I had to eat and pee and stuff. However, I did notice my mind changed about 3 times during the thread. More information came out, the whole topic changed and I learned. Because I waited. But I'm not perfect. Sometimes I just want to post photos or tell my story. It happens IRL too. I have had to train myself to listen and not interrupt even when my news is so so so exciting.
I'm lost as to why one earth you would share this given what we've been mentioning about taking the time to read things. It's not about being perfect, rather about attempting to maintain a general sense of awareness.
Because I am trying to get that sense. And now I try to read the whole post. And we should all do that I was trying to admit something that I had done and how I'm trying to improve. I am sorry if I am missing something. I thought we were all on the same page. I used to read a post and not understand something and then ask the poster. Now I google and find some stuff out and get more information. Two reasons - it's not up to the board to educate me. And also, I can't just assume the poster is posting an unbiased source or has no bias to their opinion.
Yes, this is a gross oversimplification (emphasis on gross) of America and kind of reminds me of the whole "melting pot" thing. People say that like it's a good thing because we were taught how great it was that America is a melting pot! Except not really because that just means we are all supposed to assimilate/melt together. :-\
And the new movement culturally is to go from The Great American Melting Pot, to America: The Tossed Salad . Okay, the premise is better, but the name ... The 13 year old boy in me internally laughs uncontrollably whenever that title is mentioned. America: The Tossed Salad is just another reminder that we're fucked. LOL
Is this seriously a real thing? OMG. i almost spit my coffee and for a second thought you were making a joke.
I was in Branson recently. It was awash in confederate flags and Trump propaganda. I felt uncomfortable and left as soon as I could, and I am a white Christian from the Bible Belt. I imagine it would be a pretty frightening place for a POC or a Muslim, and if avoiding it means living in a bubble, then I would recommend enjoying your bubble to the fullest.
Just re-quoting @kirkette since people still seem to be posting their scores and not reading
I think the problem with all of us is that we read page one and then reply. We don't ignore the comments that are relevant, important etc - we just want to post so bad. Happened in cute kids - people just reply to page 1. Nobody really wants to see all your scores, they just want you to read their score. We are a little self centred. This is most of us.
True, but I think this applies for a limited time, though right? If anything comes to 3+ pages, there's probably a lot more going on and maybe we should check back at some point.
Prime example, this thread. Even though something felt off to me about the "bubble" this poll was telling me I was living in, I had no idea who Charles Murray is. Now that's I know and can basically disregard whatever this "poll" is trying to tell me about myself and the "bubble" I'm living in.
Yeah, Charles Murray is...I'll go with problematic.
"There exists a new upper class that's completely disconnected from the average white American and American culture at large..."
The implication is that American culture is "white."
I could probably make a similar quiz for this supposed average white American that asks how many of them have taken public transportation in the last year, if any people of color attend their churches, and so on.
Yes, this is a gross oversimplification (emphasis on gross) of America and kind of reminds me of the whole "melting pot" thing. People say that like it's a good thing because we were taught how great it was that America is a melting pot! Except not really because that just means we are all supposed to assimilate/melt together. :-\
I've always thought the melting pot was the most bizarre ideal to be proud of.
I think the problem with all of us is that we read page one and then reply. We don't ignore the comments that are relevant, important etc - we just want to post so bad. Happened in cute kids - people just reply to page 1. Nobody really wants to see all your scores, they just want you to read their score. We are a little self centred. This is most of us.
True, but I think this applies for a limited time, though right? If anything comes to 3+ pages, there's probably a lot more going on and maybe we should check back at some point.
Prime example, this thread. Even though something felt off to me about the "bubble" this poll was telling me I was living in, I had no idea who Charles Murray is. Now that's I know and can basically disregard whatever this "poll" is trying to tell me about myself and the "bubble" I'm living in.
Agreed. I thought the questions were stupid while I took them so I stopped. I think most of us should know what kind of bubble we live in just by looking around all day I want my daughter to be exposed to different people because I feel like it helps you relate to people. Different races, different socioeconomic levels. When I went to high school in an affluent neighbourhood (we took two buses) I was constantly arguing with people who thought work for welfare was a good idea. I knew people on welfare that were not cheating the system. They were just hard working people. They were friendly and smart and caring just like me. They just had some bad things happen to them. It made me empathize. It was an education that isn't in books. It makes you start to understand privilege.
I am glad that when my daughter goes to middle school, the area is larger so she may meet more people from a wider array of backgrounds. Still a bubble but a bigger one.
Right now, every kid at her school doesn't want for anything. They never have to 'save up' for something. They don't even know they have the best shoes and the best coats and the best cars. They assume everyone has that because they don't know any different. That makes it harder as you get older to try to help those less fortunate. It feeds the bootstraps mentality.
And the new movement culturally is to go from The Great American Melting Pot, to America: The Tossed Salad . Okay, the premise is better, but the name ... The 13 year old boy in me internally laughs uncontrollably whenever that title is mentioned. America: The Tossed Salad is just another reminder that we're fucked. LOL
I remember in 5th grade Social Studies we had to write an "essay" (so probably like a paragraph) on whether America was melting pot or a salad bowl. Maybe we could say salad bowl instead of tossed salad? lol
I was in Branson recently. It was awash in confederate flags and Trump propaganda. I felt uncomfortable and left as soon as I could, and I am a white Christian from the Bible Belt. I imagine it would be a pretty frightening place for a POC or a Muslim, and if avoiding it means living in a bubble, then I would recommend enjoying your bubble to the fullest.
And Charles Murray needs to go away.
This is basically how I felt after doing the quiz - uncomfortable. It was stupid and obviously considered working class white synonymous with American culture.
No thanks, I'll keep my low score and bubble with pride.
I know what you mean. Someone should make a counter quiz about getting out of their bubble. Questions like, Do you have a friend who is not of the same race as you? In the last year, how many Mexican, Indian, Thai, etc restaurants have you been to?
Yes, this is a gross oversimplification (emphasis on gross) of America and kind of reminds me of the whole "melting pot" thing. People say that like it's a good thing because we were taught how great it was that America is a melting pot! Except not really because that just means we are all supposed to assimilate/melt together. :-\
And the new movement culturally is to go from The Great American Melting Pot, to America: The Tossed Salad . Okay, the premise is better, but the name ... The 13 year old boy in me internally laughs uncontrollably whenever that title is mentioned. America: The Tossed Salad is just another reminder that we're fucked. LOL
Our former university president referred to the diversity of our student body like a stew, where the components stay whole but flavor one another. Is that any better? IDK
This is basically how I felt after doing the quiz - uncomfortable. It was stupid and obviously considered working class white synonymous with American culture.
No thanks, I'll keep my low score and bubble with pride.
I know what you mean. Someone should make a counter quiz about getting out of their bubble. Questions like, Do you have a friend who is not of the same race as you? In the last year, how many Mexican, Indian, Thai, etc restaurants have you been to?
I would WIN this quiz. You just named all of my favorite foods.
The thing is, the quiz is not obliquely equating white working class culture with American culture, so much as it's specifically and blatantly addressing white working class culture and ignoring everything else. This quiz does not just purport to test whether one is isolated from "American culture" (although I have no doubt that Murray views "average white people" as the most Anerican Americans and therefore their culture as the defining American culture). It says on its very face: "There exists a new upper class that’s completely disconnected from the average white American and American culture at large, argues Charles Murray, a libertarian political scientist and author." The whole point is to test how white you are. It is not hidden. You do not have to read between the lines, take the test, or put on your thinking cap to figure out what this test is all about. They come right out and tell you in the intro paragraph.
I am ashamed with myself for having taken this inane quiz in the past.
Post by CheeringCharm on Sept 6, 2016 10:33:02 GMT -5
I think it probably is true that there is growing number of people who are out of touch with the way the majority live economically. Remember that Atlantic article that talked about the "secret shame" of the middle class (that they're not really middle class financially as we typically define the phrase) and how a majority of Americans do not have $400 for an emergency? They got a huge response to that article because so many readers could relate. Despite it's claims, that is not what this quiz is measuring. It's really just measuring how much you know about white rural America.
Question 1: Do you live in a little house? Question 2: Is it Pink? Question 3: Have you been to a Tasty Freeze? Question 4: Did you suck on a chili dog out front? Question 5: Admit it your name is Jack or Diane huh? Question 6: Did you learn to fear Jesus in a Small Town?
PS - I like John Mellencamp. My Dad met him a few times and he said he was an awesome guy. Art paints portraits of " moments" in time that are remembered and not always real or universal experiences. Like an Andrew Wyeth or Stuart Davis painting, it captures ONE moment in time from ONE perspective often romanticized. I don't fault Mellencamp or his music, it just seems like Charles Whatever wants to brand that as the " only" valid American experience as opposed to a hyperbolized " version" of the American Experience.
Post by emoflamingo on Sept 6, 2016 11:13:53 GMT -5
OMG GUYS STOP POSTING YOUR DAMN SCORES.
I started taking it and felt really weird. I finished it to see if there were any questions about race/religion other than the evangelical part. I mean, yes, growing up in an area that had more high school graduates than college graduates could indicate that you weren't in the bubble, but that question alone isn't an indicator of a bubble. I grew up in a major metropolitan area and it's still, to this day, very segregated. It just reminds me of those city maps that have the words over top describing the stereotypical resident of that area and it's disgusting.
Question 1: Do you live in a little house? Question 2: Is it Pink? Question 3: Have you been to a Tasty Freeze? Question 4: Did you suck on a chili dog out front? Question 5: Admit it your name is Jack or Diane huh? Question 6: Did you learn to fear Jesus in a Small Town?
PS - I like John Mellencamp. My Dad met him a few times and he said he was an awesome guy. Art paints portraits of " moments" in time that are remembered and not always real or universal experiences. Like an Andrew Wyeth or Stuart Davis painting, it captures ONE moment in time from ONE perspective often romanticized. I don't fault Mellencamp or his music, it just seems like Charles Whatever wants to brand that as the " only" valid American experience as opposed to a hyperbolized " version" of the American Experience.
7. Were you born in a small town? 8. Can you breathe in a small town? 9. Are you going to die in a small town? 10. Is that probably where they'll bury you?
I love The Cougar, hell if we ever wind up with surprise fraternal twins, their names will be Jack and Diane to fit our Classic Rock naming pattern. But, that's not the only true America, dumbshit Charles Murray.
So I mentioned that this was my HS song... Every morning before homeroom, they would BLAST this on the speakers. You had to get to homeroom before the end or you were tardy. I still get kinda anxious about half way through the song. But if I am drunk I cry and start singing along LOL!
I remember one of our Canadian posters sharing that Canada prides itself on being a cultural mosaic rather than a melting pot. I liked that, and it stuck with me. The belief that Canada as a whole becomes stronger by having immigrants bring with them their cultural diversity for all Canadians to learn from, versus the assimilation of the melting pot.
Well now I really hope that @kirkette has surprise fraternal twins so Jack and Diane can come into being.
Leila (we lothe the Layla spelling, but love Derek & The Dominos, and the original allegorical tale of Layla and The Madman), Verionica, Jack ( which would have to be a nickname for Harold-Easton), and Diane.
I would never actually wish unplanned twins on someone, but it would be an awfully cute group of siblings
The thing is, the quiz is not obliquely equating white working class culture with American culture, so much as it's specifically and blatantly addressing white working class culture and ignoring everything else. This quiz does not just purport to test whether one is isolated from "American culture" (although I have no doubt that Murray views "average white people" as the most Anerican Americans and therefore their culture as the defining American culture). It says on its very face: "There exists a new upper class that’s completely disconnected from the average white American and American culture at large, argues Charles Murray, a libertarian political scientist and author." The whole point is to test how white you are. It is not hidden. You do not have to read between the lines, take the test, or put on your thinking cap to figure out what this test is all about. They come right out and tell you in the intro paragraph.
I am ashamed with myself for having taken this inane quiz in the past.
But it says "American culture at large." It's essentially defining American culture as white working class culture.
Which is why I'm annoyed that people are all, "I want to do better!" in one post and then waltzed into this post to post their scores without so much as a head nod toward the assumptions and stereotypes underlying this quiz.
What's the point of trying to figure out if you were 1st or 2nd generation? Lots of Americans' families have been here for generations and are both decidedly in or out of bubbles.
The thing is, the quiz is not obliquely equating white working class culture with American culture, so much as it's specifically and blatantly addressing white working class culture and ignoring everything else. This quiz does not just purport to test whether one is isolated from "American culture" (although I have no doubt that Murray views "average white people" as the most Anerican Americans and therefore their culture as the defining American culture). It says on its very face: "There exists a new upper class that’s completely disconnected from the average white American and American culture at large, argues Charles Murray, a libertarian political scientist and author." The whole point is to test how white you are. It is not hidden. You do not have to read between the lines, take the test, or put on your thinking cap to figure out what this test is all about. They come right out and tell you in the intro paragraph.
I am ashamed with myself for having taken this inane quiz in the past.
But it says "American culture at large." It's essentially defining American culture as white working class culture.
Which is why I'm annoyed that people are all, "I want to do better!" in one post and then waltzed into this post to post their scores without so much as a head nod toward the assumptions and stereotypes underlying this quiz.
I agree that the quiz is conflating white culture and American culture. My probably poorly-made point is that it's not like you had to take the quiz to figure that out--they say "white culture and American culture at large" right there.