Clevelanders: schools in the suburbs, where to live?

[ohiopollworker]

There are some Clevelanders, yes?

We currently live in central Ohio and my in-laws are from CLE.  One in the city itself, one an hour east.  Both are inexplicably* afraid of city schools, and are generally no help whatsoever with questions like this.  
We might relocate up to CLE if jobs pan out. I am totally lost on schools.  We would ideally be looking at a 1st ring suburb to balance better schools and wanting a bit more yard space than the city itself, but still close in.  If there is a case for being in CLE itself, that is possible.  My nephew and niece have gone through CLE schools but they were mostly in Charter schools which tend to suck for special needs kids IME.

   2 kids, elementary age currently, both gifted, one has ASD (mainstreamed but needs support).  We want:

1.  "good schools" whatever the hell that means, but specifically we want access to both gifted programs and excellent special ed services.  
2.  Diversity is important to me, but typically comes with "worse" schools, so H and I battle on this one.  Some of the suburbs like University Heights are about 50/50 white/black which sounds awesome, but their schools seem mediocre, which will be a huge sticking point.
3.  Hippie dippie people and walkable/bikable and parks/green space and no HOA's, and food co-ops or whole foods, etc close by.
4.  Apparently city income tax and property tax can vary wildly, so although our house budget would be in the 200-250K range, we need to watch taxes, because if they are high, the house budget will drop.

So where would you move to?

*Spoiler alert:  not really, FIL is racist, and MIL is afraid of all cities in general regardless of skin color, because traffic! freeways! overwhelm!  

[FloFTW]

I live in an inner ring suburb but honestly all of these questions make me bristle with the underlying judgement in them so I'm gonna pass.

[penguingrrl]

I think you may want to rephrase. There are a lot of underlying racist assumptions here.

[curbsideprophet]

I don't see this post ending well.

[pugz]

yeah no.

[Ramz-ee]

I prefer the West Side and can't address specifics about schools, but I can address the area and price range for houses you are looking at.

Lakewood is less than 10 minutes from downtown Cleveland. It is definitely walkable/bikable and has access to parks and green space. Also very close to the lake. Lakewood is definitely more city like. I'm not sure what size lot you are looking for, but you will find "city sized" lots. From what I've heard, the schools are pretty good and definitely have gifted programs and special ed services. My sister would say they are fabulous.

A little bit further out from downtown is Fairview Park and Rocky River. You will have larger lots, but it won't as walkable to stores and such, but definitely bikable. Both have excellent schools, however property taxes are high. Rocky River homes are over priced due to the perception of the quality of the schools.

The Whole Foods (yes, there is only one) on the West Side is in Rocky River - reasonable driving distance from both other cities I mentioned.

All three cities I mentioned are older communities with older homes. If you want a newer home/new construction, you will need to move further out.

Cuyahoga county has high property tax rates, but it does vary by city.

Keep in mind, Cleveland is a small city. Traffic is not bad at all. I've lived in much larger and busier cities. I just laugh when people complain about traffic here.

Not sure if that was helpful, but good luck with the job!

[josieposy]

Well this is a tremendous way to introduce yourself.

[mskitkat]

Unless it has changed since I worked there, there is *gasp* a Whole Foods in University Heights. I know, I know. Craziness, right?

[undecidedowl]

Sept 12, 2016 13:54:54 GMT -5 ohiopollworker said:

There are some Clevelanders, yes?

We currently live in central Ohio and my in-laws are from CLE.  One in the city itself, one an hour east.  Both are inexplicably* afraid of city schools, and are generally no help whatsoever with questions like this.  
We might relocate up to CLE if jobs pan out. I am totally lost on schools.  We would ideally be looking at a 1st ring suburb to balance better schools and wanting a bit more yard space than the city itself, but still close in.  If there is a case for being in CLE itself, that is possible.  My nephew and niece have gone through CLE schools but they were mostly in Charter schools which tend to suck for special needs kids IME.

   2 kids, elementary age currently, both gifted, one has ASD (mainstreamed but needs support).  We want:

1.  "good schools" whatever the hell that means, but specifically we want access to both gifted programs and excellent special ed services.  
2.  Diversity is important to me, but typically comes with "worse" schools, so H and I battle on this one.  Some of the suburbs like University Heights are about 50/50 white/black which sounds awesome, but their schools seem mediocre, which will be a huge sticking point.
3.  Hippie dippie people and walkable/bikable and parks/green space and no HOA's, and food co-ops or whole foods, etc close by.
4.  Apparently city income tax and property tax can vary wildly, so although our house budget would be in the 200-250K range, we need to watch taxes, because if they are high, the house budget will drop.

So where would you move to?

*Spoiler alert:  not really, FIL is racist, and MIL is afraid of all cities in general regardless of skin color, because traffic! freeways! overwhelm!  

You really can write a post without the racist stuff. It's really possible.

[tillie]

I think you should read some MMM threads before you post.

[karinothing]

Sigh, new as soon as I saw this was a post about schools it would have racist undertones. I am hoping that you put worst in quotes because you realize that they likely aren't bad schools. How are you judging schools? Great schools? Test scores? All great schools is going to tell you is the SES makeup of a school. Do you want a school that is all white and well off, well than it will get a GS score of 10.

You need to look beyond test scores. Go visit schools. Your state should have a school report care for each school which while giving you test scores will also give you insight into the education level of the teachers and the crime at each school. You should also talk to people that actually send their kids to the schools. Look at what special programs the schools might offer.

[stephm0188]

Look at Shaker Heights and maybe consider not being so racist.

[tacosforlife]

I see this is going well.

[lurkingaw]

My sister lived in Cleveland Heights. She loved the community, but the school system was terrible. She has four kids. After paying way too much money for private school (Hawken sp??) she decided to move. They live in Bay Village now and love the schools. The kids ride their bikes to school. Community is great. She is very happy with the quality of education.

[wambam]

"Hippie dippie people"

*face palm*

[josieposy]

[gretchenindisguise]

Sept 12, 2016 14:53:43 GMT -5 undecidedowl said:

Sept 12, 2016 13:54:54 GMT -5 ohiopollworker said:

There are some Clevelanders, yes?

We currently live in central Ohio and my in-laws are from CLE.  One in the city itself, one an hour east.  Both are inexplicably* afraid of city schools, and are generally no help whatsoever with questions like this.  
We might relocate up to CLE if jobs pan out. I am totally lost on schools.  We would ideally be looking at a 1st ring suburb to balance better schools and wanting a bit more yard space than the city itself, but still close in.  If there is a case for being in CLE itself, that is possible.  My nephew and niece have gone through CLE schools but they were mostly in Charter schools which tend to suck for special needs kids IME.

   2 kids, elementary age currently, both gifted, one has ASD (mainstreamed but needs support).  We want:

1.  "good schools" whatever the hell that means, but specifically we want access to both gifted programs and excellent special ed services.  
2.  Diversity is important to me, but typically comes with "worse" schools, so H and I battle on this one.  Some of the suburbs like University Heights are about 50/50 white/black which sounds awesome, but their schools seem mediocre, which will be a huge sticking point.
3.  Hippie dippie people and walkable/bikable and parks/green space and no HOA's, and food co-ops or whole foods, etc close by.
4.  Apparently city income tax and property tax can vary wildly, so although our house budget would be in the 200-250K range, we need to watch taxes, because if they are high, the house budget will drop.

So where would you move to?

*Spoiler alert:  not really, FIL is racist, and MIL is afraid of all cities in general regardless of skin color, because traffic! freeways! overwhelm!  

You really can write a post without the racist stuff. It's really possible.

Thank you for this. I think it becomes so engrained that it needs to be highlighted how to ask questions without racist undertones. It shouldn't be and I wish it wasn't that way, but it's clearly necessary. Much like the "how to apologize" lessons over on MMM.

[gretchenindisguise]

Also - please don't take AWs advice on anything.

[atexan]

TL;DR

Where do the "cool" white people live?

[bronxgirl]

Sept 12, 2016 13:54:54 GMT -5 ohiopollworker said:

There are some Clevelanders, yes?

We currently live in central Ohio and my in-laws are from CLE.  One in the city itself, one an hour east.  Both are inexplicably* afraid of city schools, and are generally no help whatsoever with questions like this.  
We might relocate up to CLE if jobs pan out. I am totally lost on schools.  We would ideally be looking at a 1st ring suburb to balance better schools and wanting a bit more yard space than the city itself, but still close in.  If there is a case for being in CLE itself, that is possible.  My nephew and niece have gone through CLE schools but they were mostly in Charter schools which tend to suck for special needs kids IME.

   2 kids, elementary age currently, both gifted, one has ASD (mainstreamed but needs support).  We want:

1.  "good schools" whatever the hell that means, but specifically we want access to both gifted programs and excellent special ed services.  
2.  Diversity is important to me, but typically comes with "worse" schools, so H and I battle on this one.  Some of the suburbs like University Heights are about 50/50 white/black which sounds awesome, but their schools seem mediocre, which will be a huge sticking point.
3.  Hippie dippie people and walkable/bikable and parks/green space and no HOA's, and food co-ops or whole foods, etc close by.
4.  Apparently city income tax and property tax can vary wildly, so although our house budget would be in the 200-250K range, we need to watch taxes, because if they are high, the house budget will drop.

So where would you move to?

*Spoiler alert:  not really, FIL is racist, and MIL is afraid of all cities in general regardless of skin color, because traffic! freeways! overwhelm!  

I grew up in Cleveland Heights, which shares a school system with University Heights.  I'm a proud graduate of CH-UH public schools, which are anything but mediocre.  I got a top notch education and my friends who have kids in those schools now are reporting really phenomenal experiences and great educational opportunities.  The reason for the bullshit mediocre comments is the same shit when I was in school...straight up racism.  I am currently a proud parent of a New York City public school student and am having largely the same experience, i.e. a bunch of ignorant racists who know nothing about the schools just Assuming they all suck.  My daughter's school is amazing and she's getting a fabulous education.  That being said, if I were moving to Cleveland now I would probably look for a house in Shaker Heights.

[bronxgirl]

Sept 12, 2016 15:26:56 GMT -5 lurkingaw said:

My sister lived in Cleveland Heights. She loved the community, but the school system was terrible. She has four kids. After paying way too much money for private school (Hawken sp??) she decided to move. They live in Bay Village now and love the schools. The kids ride their bikes to school. Community is great. She is very happy with the quality of education.

Bullshit! It might not be the right fit for your sister, and if her politics are anything like yours than Cleveland Heights is absolutely NOT the right fit, but that's a great school system.  It's majority students of color, though, so that's where a lot of the BS negative crap comes from.

[Saint Monica]

You could google and spare us your simple minded dribble:

education.ohio.gov/lists_and_rankings

[moolarkey]

I have a friend that teaches in Cleveland Heights and I know she'd be an amazing teacher for any kid.

[Michelle]

Sept 12, 2016 16:16:35 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Also - please don't take AWs advice on anything.

As much as i try to give AW the benefit of the doubt on intentions (see other post), this made me guffaw.

[lurkingaw]

Sept 12, 2016 16:28:32 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Sept 12, 2016 15:26:56 GMT -5 lurkingaw said:

My sister lived in Cleveland Heights. She loved the community, but the school system was terrible. She has four kids. After paying way too much money for private school (Hawken sp??) she decided to move. They live in Bay Village now and love the schools. The kids ride their bikes to school. Community is great. She is very happy with the quality of education.

Bullshit! It might not be the right fit for your sister, and if her politics are anything like yours than Cleveland Heights is absolutely NOT the right fit, but that's a great school system.  It's majority students of color, though, so that's where a lot of the BS negative crap comes from.

My sister is a liberal athiest, so not like me at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a rather large school system. They bought their house because it was across the street from one elementary school in the system that performed really well. That school closed two years after they bought the home and the new school her kids would go to did not perform well at all. That's when they decided it was not a good fit for them. I'm sure there are good schools in the district, but hers was not, according to her. I don't live there. Just passing on what she told me. Bay Village is nationally recognized, so she is very happy there. Obviously, I homeschool and have a very different idea of what a quality education means.

[Michelle]

Sept 12, 2016 13:54:54 GMT -5 ohiopollworker said:

There are some Clevelanders, yes?

We currently live in central Ohio and my in-laws are from CLE.  One in the city itself, one an hour east.  Both are inexplicably* afraid of city schools, and are generally no help whatsoever with questions like this.  
We might relocate up to CLE if jobs pan out. I am totally lost on schools.  We would ideally be looking at a 1st ring suburb to balance better schools and wanting a bit more yard space than the city itself, but still close in.  If there is a case for being in CLE itself, that is possible.  My nephew and niece have gone through CLE schools but they were mostly in Charter schools which tend to suck for special needs kids IME.

   2 kids, elementary age currently, both gifted, one has ASD (mainstreamed but needs support).  We want:

1.  "good schools" whatever the hell that means, but specifically we want access to both gifted programs and excellent special ed services.  
2.  Diversity is important to me, but typically comes with "worse" schools, so H and I battle on this one.  Some of the suburbs like University Heights are about 50/50 white/black which sounds awesome, but their schools seem mediocre, which will be a huge sticking point.
3.  Hippie dippie people and walkable/bikable and parks/green space and no HOA's, and food co-ops or whole foods, etc close by.
4.  Apparently city income tax and property tax can vary wildly, so although our house budget would be in the 200-250K range, we need to watch taxes, because if they are high, the house budget will drop.

So where would you move to?

*Spoiler alert:  not really, FIL is racist, and MIL is afraid of all cities in general regardless of skin color, because traffic! freeways! overwhelm!  

I try not to join in pile-ons but thought I would jump in here just to share that when I first read this, I read it the way I think you meant it, which is to say you were acknowledging that how schools are determined as "good" or not is often a flawed process that disparately impacts the more diverse schools. You would like more diversity and high quality schools with GT and Spec Ed available, and in an area where others recognize the schools as good as well.

But after I read the version with the strike-through corrections, I saw that my benefit-of-a-doubt interpretation of your email was because of my white privilege.

I imagined it again as if I were a person of color and wanted to curse you.

HTH in trying to figure out why there is so much hostility in the replies you are getting.

[bronxgirl]

Sept 12, 2016 16:39:20 GMT -5 lurkingaw said:

Sept 12, 2016 16:28:32 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Bullshit! It might not be the right fit for your sister, and if her politics are anything like yours than Cleveland Heights is absolutely NOT the right fit, but that's a great school system.  It's majority students of color, though, so that's where a lot of the BS negative crap comes from.

My sister is a liberal athiest, so not like me at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a rather large school system. They bought their house because it was across the street from one elementary school in the system that performed really well. That school closed two years after they bought the home and the new school her kids would go to did not perform well at all. That's when they decided it was not a good fit for them. I'm sure there are good schools in the district, but hers was not, according to her. I don't live there. Just passing on what she told me. Bay Village is nationally recognized, so she is very happy there. Obviously, I homeschool and have a very different idea of what a quality education means.

I don't doubt that she might have had a bad experience and her children are happier elsewhere.  However, that does not mean that the whole system is terrible. No matter how good an individual school, or whole school system may or may not be, nothing is a perfect fit for every child.  That's an entirely different discussion.

[tacosforlife]

Sept 12, 2016 16:39:20 GMT -5 lurkingaw said:

Sept 12, 2016 16:28:32 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Bullshit! It might not be the right fit for your sister, and if her politics are anything like yours than Cleveland Heights is absolutely NOT the right fit, but that's a great school system.  It's majority students of color, though, so that's where a lot of the BS negative crap comes from.

My sister is a liberal athiest, so not like me at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a rather large school system. They bought their house because it was across the street from one elementary school in the system that performed really well. That school closed two years after they bought the home and the new school her kids would go to did not perform well at all. That's when they decided it was not a good fit for them. I'm sure there are good schools in the district, but hers was not, according to her. I don't live there. Just passing on what she told me. Bay Village is nationally recognized, so she is very happy there. Obviously, I homeschool and have a very different idea of what a quality education means.

Apparently it doesn't involve clear written communication. Or critical thinking skills. Your original post stated that the school system was terrible. Now you are stating that one particular school was not good.

But hey, homeschooling, amirite?

[lurkingaw]

Sept 12, 2016 16:44:09 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Sept 12, 2016 16:39:20 GMT -5 lurkingaw said:

My sister is a liberal athiest, so not like me at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a rather large school system. They bought their house because it was across the street from one elementary school in the system that performed really well. That school closed two years after they bought the home and the new school her kids would go to did not perform well at all. That's when they decided it was not a good fit for them. I'm sure there are good schools in the district, but hers was not, according to her. I don't live there. Just passing on what she told me. Bay Village is nationally recognized, so she is very happy there. Obviously, I homeschool and have a very different idea of what a quality education means.

I don't doubt that she might have had a bad experience and her children are happier elsewhere.  However, that does not mean that the whole system is terrible. No matter how good an individual school, or whole school system may or may not be, nothing is a perfect fir for every child.  That's an entirely different discussion.

You are absolutely right.

But perhaps that's an important thing to consider for the OP. It isn't enough to just look at a district as a whole, but one should really research which specific elementary school/middle school the child would be attending based on neighborhood for a more specific answer.

It's a strange concept for me. Living in a small town there is only one elementary, middle and high school per district.

And yes, tacos, feel sorry for my uneducated children snd the horrible future they will have because I am their teacher. Poor babies.

[NitaX]

*pulls up in thread*
How much diversity do you need? 10% or 10 little brown kids?