Fuck it, here's my beef with Kirkette (IM A RACIST ASSHOLE)

[Deleted]

Moving this particular conversation out of the thread about asshole behavior and race that @natariru started, because it's not fair to muddle that important conversation.

I'm posting this because one of the MANY things I learned on MMM this week was not to sit idle when I thought someone was being a bully of any kind.

@kirkette , you have a lot to add to this board but I will not stand by silent while you entangle valid points about racism with self aggrandizement. It seems bullshit to me to mix up "hey, you're being a racist asshole" with "I was born with a silver spoon in my diaper" and "Jimmy Carter personally signed my parents out of a jail in Tijuana." What does that have to do with the point you were making? Nothing. It was yet another form of self aggrandizement.

You have made it clear that you look down on and belittle 95% of the posters on this board. I find your flagrant "I'm awesome, you all are dumb fucks" attitude offensive. My parents may not have been immigrants, like yours, but I am damn proud of the poverty* they rose out of to put themselves and my sister and I through college. I am WELL AWARE that my children are a failure in education away from reverting to the rural farm kids with no money my parents were.

This has nothing to do with race. I just find people who brag about themselves and the opportunities they had while putting others down to be intolerable.

You're making excellent, eye opening points about race but dragging how awesome you are into the conversation is making it easy for people to disregard you.

ETA: because poverty was spelled incorrectly

ETA2: Cross posting something that is on page 10


Kirkette, I apologize. That's not a strong enough word. I'm abjectly sorry and find my behavior shockingly awful. I was tone policing (harassing) and then I did double down (x infinity). In doing so, I proved myself to be the undecent racist I am. My words damaged this community.



There are six "I's" in this sentence. The first two are an attempt to acknowledge the damage I've caused. The second two are the most obvious methods I was using. The last two are a recognition of what my words make me. The last "My" is a recognition of the damaging effect my words are having on a community I value.



I counted them because it's important that this apology be about my behavior, not about the internal personal motivation issues that caused me to perceive Kirkette's posts in the manner I did. And then to take it to a whole next level and actually type out how big of a flaming asshole I am. That's a whole house of boxes to unpack and none of you owe me anything in helping me unpack them.



You all held up a mirror and I'm appalled at what it reflects. I didn't think I was this person.



Kirkette, I know you'll see this. You owe me no acknowledgement. I apologize, I'm sorry, I'm a monumental asshole, I hold no false hope that you will to forgive me. There is no way I can make amends.



I'm going to try to get some sleep but I promise to return during daylight hours.



@chillerellenos, I apologize to you as well.



Read more: pandce.proboards.com/thread/551705/beef-kirkette-racist#ixzz4K8PLekWn

[Deleted]

Since I'm blowing it up, @chillerellenos, your fan-girling of @kirkette in the last 36 hours is ridiculous.

[miso]

Oh.

[darnkatz]

[winecheery]

But...ok. It does have to do with race. Her stories about being a Black woman and having an affluent life must be told side by side, because they are interwoven. She is a Black woman from privilege, but she is still Black. That is the whole point! That she can come from a lifestyle full of prep schools, and the like, but she is still subject to the cruelties of society because she's not white! (I think so anyway, I hate to put words in her mouth, most especially because she handles thing far better than I do!)

ETA:  I hope I have not offended kirkette here with my interpretation of all that she has shared.  idaholakelady I really don't think she's putting other people down.  

[swank]

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2016 22:29:29 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Girl, get a thicker skin. 
I'm not changing for you, or anyone else for that matter.
So, if you don't like my tone, scroll down, or block me. 

I don't expect you to.

But weren't the lessons of this week:
- don't be an asshole
- don't sit idle when you think someone is being an asshole

[miso]

You're an asshole.

[mishy]

Dude. DUDE.

Where is the empathy? Giving @kirkette the benefit of the doubt?

Do you not understand anything about the conversations that have been happening?

I think you are wrong.

This absolutely is relevant to the other thread.

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2016 22:32:17 GMT -5 winecheery said:

But...ok. It does have to do with race. Her stories about being a Black woman and having an affluent life must be told side by side, because they are interwoven. She is a Black woman from privilege, but she is still Black. That is the whole point! That she can come from a lifestyle full of prep schools, and the like, but she is still subject to the cruelties of society because she's not white! (I think so anyway, I hate to put words in her mouth, most especially because she handles thing far better than I do!)

And I appreciate @kirkette for providing that insight, because I don't "know" anyone else who went to a prep school or elite university (so poor, so backwoods). But she can provide those insights an a manner that doesn't degrade other people.

[mishy]

Is this a role play? A chance for other posters to come in and identify all the racist things happening?

Please say yes.

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2016 22:35:44 GMT -5 mishy said:

Dude. DUDE.

Where is the empathy? Giving @kirkette the benefit of the doubt?

Do you not understand anything about the conversations that have been happening?

I think you are wrong.

This absolutely is relevant to the other thread.

Didn't we establish that no one gets the benefit of the doubt? To take people's words at face value and not "assume good intentions"?

[TamiTaylor]

No. Just fucking no.

@kirkette (and @natariru) were the ONLY posters here that actively helped me when I was going through my job shit. @kirkette pretty much wrote my resume. She took that time to hel an Internet stranger. She does not look down on people. She is one of the kindest posters here. However, do not mistake the fact that she will go toe to toe when warranted. You are completely out of line and completely off base here.

Stop being an asshole.

[mishy]

Sept 12, 2016 22:38:31 GMT -5 @idaholakelady said:

Sept 12, 2016 22:35:44 GMT -5 mishy said:

Dude. DUDE.

Where is the empathy? Giving @kirkette the benefit of the doubt?

Do you not understand anything about the conversations that have been happening?

I think you are wrong.

This absolutely is relevant to the other thread.

Didn't we establish that no one gets the benefit of the doubt? To take people's words at face value and not "assume good intentions"?

No, that's not what I took away at all.

I personally am trying to give POC the benefit of the doubt way more and give white people, including myself, no benefit of the doubt. It's long overdue.

[cville]

Sept 12, 2016 22:36:27 GMT -5 @idaholakelady said:

And I appreciate @kirkette for providing that I site, because I don't "know" anyone else who went to a prep school or elite university (so poor, so backwoods). But she can provide those insights an a manner that doesn't degrade other people.

Providing factually accurate information about certain aspects of her own life isn't putting anyone else down.

That you see it that way is about you, not her.

And, yahno, maybe about race too.

[glinda]

i have seen affluent white women on her make lots and lots of patting-on-the-back, underhanded, snippy comments. And no one calls them out for it, because the tone is different. Because the poster is white.

I really haven't seen a whole lot of nastiness or self congratulatory posts from @kirkette but I mean, seriously man? This board as a whole dragged her through shit and now the message is "tone it down, your points are good but if you can't talk to me while removing your personal life experiences from the mix and speaking in a tone I'm comfortable with, I'm not going to listen"?

[gretchenindisguise]

So when is the appropriate time for her to talk about her past? Or her upbringing? Or her education?

Must it be in the manner in which you deem appropriate? Why is that? Why are you the arbiter of appropriateness? And how exactly is what she doing not appropriate?

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 12, 2016 22:36:27 GMT -5 @idaholakelady said:

Sept 12, 2016 22:32:17 GMT -5 winecheery said:

But...ok. It does have to do with race. Her stories about being a Black woman and having an affluent life must be told side by side, because they are interwoven. She is a Black woman from privilege, but she is still Black. That is the whole point! That she can come from a lifestyle full of prep schools, and the like, but she is still subject to the cruelties of society because she's not white! (I think so anyway, I hate to put words in her mouth, most especially because she handles thing far better than I do!)

And I appreciate @kirkette for providing that insight, because I don't "know" anyone else who went to a prep school or elite university (so poor, so backwoods). But she can provide those insights an a manner that doesn't degrade other people.

I think you are reading into these posts what isn't there. It seems like you have some insecurities and are deflecting them. I have never felt like @kirkette or anyone with money or a similar economic status was putting me down on here.

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2016 22:39:33 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

No. Just fucking no.

@kirkette (and @natariru) were the ONLY posters here that actively helped me when I was going through my job shit. @kirkette pretty much wrote my resume. She took that time to hel an Internet stranger. She does not look down on people. She is one of the kindest posters here. However, do not mistake the fact that she will go toe to toe when warranted. You are completely out of line and completely off base here.

Stop being an asshole.

I'm absolutely clear on the fact that I'm setting myself up for a dragging. I'm clear, I promise.

[sewpinkgal]

Is there a contest that we don't know about over who can show their ass the most? I mean, damn.

[thedutchgirl]

Let me guess. You don't like her "tone" either. Stop. Shut up.

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 12, 2016 22:40:49 GMT -5 glinda said:

i have seen affluent white women on her make lots and lots of patting-on-the-back, underhanded, snippy comments. And no one calls them out for it, because the tone is different. Because the poster is white.

I really haven't seen a whole lot of nastiness or self congratulatory posts from @kirkette but I mean, seriously man? This board as a whole dragged her through shit and now the message is "tone it down, your points are good but if you can't talk to me while removing your personal life experiences from the mix and speaking in a tone I'm comfortable with, I'm not going to listen"?

Yes. Lots of people talk a out money on a board that's is called MONEY MATTERS moms.

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 12, 2016 22:43:26 GMT -5 @idaholakelady said:

Sept 12, 2016 22:39:33 GMT -5 TamiTaylor said:

No. Just fucking no.

@kirkette (and @natariru) were the ONLY posters here that actively helped me when I was going through my job shit. @kirkette pretty much wrote my resume. She took that time to hel an Internet stranger. She does not look down on people. She is one of the kindest posters here. However, do not mistake the fact that she will go toe to toe when warranted. You are completely out of line and completely off base here.

Stop being an asshole.

I'm absolutely clear on the fact that I'm setting myself up for a dragging. I'm clear, I promise.

1. Don't use dragging that makes me think of the horrible racial crimes in Jaspar TX
2. If you know that then why the fuck are you doing this?

[gretchenindisguise]

Ok, so here's the thing Idaho. We just had a how many page post about race relations, and then you made a separate post to without using the word, put kirkette on blast for being uppity. If you don't think that's what you did, please head on back to page 1 of that thread and start over. Read the links within again and come back here and read your post.

I would say I'm shocked, but I'm not.

My shock left me around page 12 (on the app) of that other post.

[TamiTaylor]

Sept 12, 2016 22:43:29 GMT -5 sewpinkgal said:

Is there a contest that we don't know about over who can show their ass the most? I mean, damn.

This board needs one of those detenators that blows up old Vegas casinos. It's literally imploding on itself.

[redheadk]

Me, right now:

[gretchenindisguise]

I went looking for a day since last incident pic, and found this instead. I think it's more appropriate.

[pizzapizza]

@idaholakelady, your post reads to me that you have a narrative in your head of how you consider @kirkette, should "act" on this board.

Kirkette is one of the nicest posters on this board - she is always helping other people out - see TamiTaylor, post above and a bazillion others

The fact that this board has continued to prove how racist it is I could only imagine how that would be very frustrating/hurtful/traumatizing after she has been so kind over and over again. Her calling out some of the assholes that treated her like shit is more than fucking appropriate as the collective (we) have not been doing that sufficiently or really at all.

@idaholakelady, you are making this about YOU and the fact that you were POOR and you don't like seeing a successful black woman. Maybe it is an unconcious bias or maybe you are downright racist but you really need to evaluate yourself and THINK BEFORE YOU POST.

[bronxgirl]

Sept 12, 2016 22:38:11 GMT -5 mishy said:

Is this a role play? A chance for other posters to come in and identify all the racist things happening?

Please say yes.

That's exactly what I was thinking. this is like some surprise training exercise for us to reply to, or maybe performance art. And even though I wasn't the one called out for "fangirling" @kirkette, I'm still in the fanclub.

[winecheery]

Sept 12, 2016 22:36:27 GMT -5 @idaholakelady said:

Sept 12, 2016 22:32:17 GMT -5 winecheery said:

But...ok. It does have to do with race. Her stories about being a Black woman and having an affluent life must be told side by side, because they are interwoven. She is a Black woman from privilege, but she is still Black. That is the whole point! That she can come from a lifestyle full of prep schools, and the like, but she is still subject to the cruelties of society because she's not white! (I think so anyway, I hate to put words in her mouth, most especially because she handles thing far better than I do!)

And I appreciate @kirkette for providing that insight, because I don't "know" anyone else who went to a prep school or elite university (so poor, so backwoods). But she can provide those insights an a manner that doesn't degrade other people.

I do not come from the same sort of lifestyle she comes from either.  But I can say "good for her" and mean it genuinely.  She is a very kind and generous person and has a ton of positivity despite constantly having to defend herself around here.  Remember the charity/organization donations she put together on here as a direct result of people attacking her in the past?  Am I remembering wrong??  The whole Young Philanthropists thing...I might be getting confused here, but the point remains the same: she was being ripped apart for similar things you complain of, and she remained classy.  She made lemonade out of lemons.

ETA: tagging @kirkette in case I am wrong...my memory on how the donations came about is verrrrry fuzzy.  I just know it happened.

Idaho, I think your reaction to her posts stems from your own insecurities, perhaps, and not because she's actually degrading others.  If you are as proud of yourself and your background as you say, there should be no harm in hearing about her class and lifestyle.  I daresay, she's had a whole mess of horrible mixed in there too, based on stories of being called the n-word, and the shit her daughter endured, and so I say her lifestyle (and being proud of it, and talking about it here) is well-deserved.SaveSaveSaveSave