Family money question: is this a good plan? (Adulting sucks)

[Deleted]

Here's the TL:DR version: my grandma wants to use 2/3 of her life savings to buy a mobile home for her and my mom to live in (mom will inherit when grandma dies).

Long version: My mom has been divorced three times and has no money whatsoever. She told me in July she had $700 (that was not a surprise to me, but I didn't know the exact amount prior to then). She'll receive alimony for about another two years, and her child support for my sisters stops next spring when they turn 18. For now that's enough to live on, but she has no plan for what to do with herself after the payments stop. My husband and I have been dreading having to take her in someday (but we would if we had to).

My 86 year old grandma moved in with my mom in July. My grandma has $30k to her name, no assets, and gets about $1000/month in social security. My mom and grandma are now splitting rent, bills, etc. for the house my mom rents.

My mom's rental house is a decent (not fancy, but nice) family sized house that she will move out of next summer when my sisters graduate high school and her lease is up. She will definitely not be able to support it when she stops receiving payments from her last husband.

My mom and grandma are now thinking of using about $20k of my grandma's money to pay cash for a mobile home, and my mom will then inherit it when my grandma dies. On the one hand, I am relieved to hear they have a plan. On the other hand, I am apprehensive about my grandma spending so much of her money.

My mom could, and should, get a job. However, she has no degree and has been a SAHM for 20 years. She was a hair dresser 30 years ago (her license is long expired) and worked at the front desk of a few hotels. At this point, with her age (almost 60) and lack of work experience I can't see her doing much other than retail or maybe a very simple office job, although her computer skills are not up to date.

I don't think my mom's car is paid off, and it's several years old and needs repairs often. I don't know what her plan is for replacing it someday. I don't think she has any debt, since she and her last husband had a bankruptcy so she couldn't have credit cards for several years (I'm not sure about now).

They also live about 2,000 miles from me. They would like to move back to Michigan where I am but simply can't afford it.

Is buying a mobile home their best possible plan at this point? Any other ideas for survival?

[Deleted]

Also, before anyone tells me to MYOB, they have asked for and will listen to my advice. I just have no idea what advice to give them.

[genet313]

I am not well versed enough in all the details to really address this thoroughly, but if the total asset pool is $30K, I would not want to sink 2/3 of it into a home. Particularly if your grandmother has any health issues that she may need to address and that may or may not be covered by Medicare/Medicaid.  

But if they do end up moving forward with the purchase, I would look into the Medicare/Medicaid rules to see if the home should be held in your grandmother's name or your mom's name.  There are pretty specific rules about carving out a primary residence to determine eligibility and the last thing you want to have happen is your grandmother's health decline and Medicare/Medicaid attach the home and your mom ends up with nothing.

ETA:  And ditto subsequent posters, I would suggest to your mom that she start looking for a job ASAP. 

[lys]

Yes, your mom definitely needs to get a job - like yesterday!! Even a Walmart greeter is better than nothing.
Is there some problem (mental health issues, substance issues etc such that she has not worked?)
What will be the cost for lot rental and utilities with a mobile home?
Do they qualify for Senior (subsidized) housing?
What senior services are available in their area?

[Deleted]

No. I would not. I would have your mom get a job. My mom was a SAHM for 30 years. She got a job as an admin assistant and then moved up to a project manager (over 8 years) and has no degree and only 8 years of outside the house work experience. She makes 48K a year in MCOL. It is doable. I would have your mother get a job now or work towards getting a job. Then, she can save ALL the money from the job to go towards the down payment for a HOUSE. Your mom and grandma can split the down payment (20K/20K) and get a house in which your mom can afford the payments on her own (But grandma will pay rent/utilities). A crash course in computer skills would be great. A local college here offers basic computer classes. I would also give them a basic budgeting lesson since it seems your mom possibly struggles with this? I know mine does.
Mobile homes seem like a crappy investment TBH.

ETA: With more information given, your mom needs to find a job now to save up to move near you or a lower cost of living area once the girls graduate high school. Short term, a mobile home seems like a good fix but long term it will not last. As for saying a 60 yr old woman can't work... GTFO. Where there's a will, there's a way. 60 is young and you can still learn new skills. 

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2016 20:17:42 GMT -5 lys said:

Yes, your mom definitely needs to get a job - like yesterday!! Even a Walmart greeter is better than nothing.
Is there some problem (mental health issues, substance issues etc such that she has not worked?)
What will be the cost for lot rental and utilities with a mobile home?
Do they qualify for Senior (subsidized) housing?
What senior services are available in their area?

I have been telling my mom for years to get a job. There's many factors here: 1) no real skills 2) she could ride coattails of husbands for a long time 3) she's an "artist" and keeps thinking she'll strike it rich with her crafts 4) Depression and lack of confidence. 5) Fibromyalgia (honestly, I think she does suffer from it but exaggerates) 6) No substance abuse. Some definite alcohol abuse about 5 years ago, but is sober now.

They told me lot rental averages about $500/month, which they can afford if there's no rent/mortgage since the trailer would be paid off.

I believe they are primarily looking in senior neighborhoods; I don't know if they're subsidized. Can you elaborate on senior services? What should I be looking for?

My grandma's health is remarkably strong for her age. No chronic conditions and mentally strong, but of course than can change.

[kershnic]

I don't really know anything about mobile homes, but the location issue stuck out to me. Is the cost of living similar where they live to where you live? Would it be worth it to you to help them move to you now rather than let them get settled in a mobile home and then have to deal with helping long distance later? It sounds like you know you're likely to help eventually, so investing now in your own long term interest seems prudent.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2016 20:40:09 GMT -5 kershnic said:

I don't really know anything about mobile homes, but the location issue stuck out to me. Is the cost of living similar where they live to where you live? Would it be worth it to you to help them move to you now rather than let them get settled in a mobile home and then have to deal with helping long distance later? It sounds like you know you're likely to help eventually, so investing now in your own long term interest seems prudent.

They're near Portland, OR (in a VHCOL area). My mom moved out there because her third husband bought restaurants out there when the Midwest economy tanked during the recession.

My grandma ended up out there because she spent the past 14 years with my aunt in CA, but we're all originally from MI.

My husband and I are not in a position where we could pay for a cross-country move. If we did, it would completely deplete our savings. If they could miraculously appear on our doorstep we could put a roof over their heads, but our current rental house is not really big enough for 4 adults (or even equipped for my grandma; the only shower is upstairs and she doesn't do well on stairs). Maybe in like 5 years we could financially help them more, but it's just not a reality right now.

My sisters are in high school, and no one else in my family will help.

[jenjen]

My grandma (70's) lived with her mom (in her mid-upper 90's) at a duplex thing for senior citizens. It was a little complex for seniors and each building (1 story) had like 5 or 6 units. I would look into something like that, or even a regular apartment complex.

I would worry about upkeep and maintenance + yardwork at a mobile home. Additionally, they usually aren't insulated well and their utilities could be quite a bit more each month.
I'd also suggest your mom find a job- retail, a library, something to occupy her time and give her some flexibility in her budget until she can draw social security.

[kershnic]

Sept 13, 2016 20:46:50 GMT -5 @bellakitty said:

Sept 13, 2016 20:40:09 GMT -5 kershnic said:

I don't really know anything about mobile homes, but the location issue stuck out to me. Is the cost of living similar where they live to where you live? Would it be worth it to you to help them move to you now rather than let them get settled in a mobile home and then have to deal with helping long distance later? It sounds like you know you're likely to help eventually, so investing now in your own long term interest seems prudent.

They're near Portland, OR (in a VHCOL area). My mom moved out there because her third husband bought restaurants out there when the Midwest economy tanked during the recession.

My grandma ended up out there because she spent the past 14 years with my aunt in CA, but we're all originally from MI.

My husband and I are not in a position where we could pay for a cross-country move. If we did, it would completely deplete our savings. If they could miraculously appear on our doorstep we could put a roof over their heads, but our current rental house is not really big enough for 4 adults (or even equipped for my grandma; the only shower is upstairs and she doesn't do well on stairs). Maybe in like 5 years we could financially help them more, but it's just not a reality right now.

My sisters are in high school, and no one else in my family will help.

I would really not want to be planning to stay in a HCOL area in the financial situation that your grandmother and mother are in without significant ties to the area, so that would be hard no for me on buying a mobile home.   I would encourage your mom to get any work she can get (or inexpensive relatively short training for work that interests her and matches her abilities) and build some savings between now and when your sisters graduate.  They should then find the cheapest way to move to Michigan possible, paid for with some combination of your grandma's savings and what your mom has saved from working.  Once in Michigan you could help them weigh the decision of whether to buy a mobile home, buy an inexpensive house, rent an apartment, look for senior housing, etc.

[VillainV]

I wouldn't recommend that they sink 2/3 of their collective savings into a mobile home. A) It doesn't leave them very much wiggle room for emergency expenses like medical issues, unexpected maintenance (heat goes out), car needs repairs, etc. B) As an asset, it sucks. They don't hold their value very well. Your mom could very well be stuck with a home with no real value and lots of maintenance problems. C) There are too many unknowns -- utility costs, insurance, maintenance, lot rental, etc.

I think it makes more sense for your mom to get a job ASAP. Anything. Then see what public services they qualify for -- housing assistance, food stamps, senior services, job training or placement services, ANYTHING that will help them. Find a place to rent (or apply for housing assistance) where their maintenance costs will be covered, and make a monthly budget that includes rent, utilities, food, insurance, etc. It won't be easy, but they can do it. Sitting at home and expecting that $30K will see them both through the rest of their years is just plain unrealistic.

[fernweh]

Your mom needs to get a job now. Even if it is just a retail job making minimum wage, it's better than nothing. Plus is she starts now and doesn't wait until her alimony expires she will have 2 years experience and probably a couple raises and will be making a little more.

Also I don't think putting almost all their money into a home is wise. Mobile homes still have lot rent and maintenance costs. I feel like they would be better to move farther away from Portland where prices are presumably cheaper and they can get a small apartment.

[compassrose]

Sept 13, 2016 20:52:40 GMT -5 kershnic said:

I'm here. You could start looking into senior housing in MI near you and what MI Medicaid and Medicare requirements are (and if it makes sense to move assets out of your grandma's name). It sounds like you have a little time before your sisters graduate and your mom/grandmas would be ready to move anyway.  COL is pretty cheap in MI-- if you think your mom could find an admin or hairdressing job near you, they might be able to buy a small house instead of a mobile home.

[jg183]

Could she look for receptionist jobs at a hair salon? Minimum wage in OR is pretty high she should get a job until your sisters graduate then move away. Rents are too high in Portland and the housing support lists all have years long waitlists

[nicechicken]

One thing I keep going back to is that if something happens to your grandma and she needs Medicaid assistance, they will look at that money and force her to use it. If they bought anything it should be put in your moms name immediately. She would have to gift her the money.

Let me think more on this.

[theblissisback]

Good old "bootstraps MM".

Send a 60 year old woman with no skills to work. HRC has pneumonia, if she can do it, so can you!

I couldn't read all the responses.

I think they could find something $10-15k vs $20k.

It seems smart to them because their rent will never change and it helps make the unexpected expenses seem "easier". If they can find something under $15k, I'd go for it.

But idk. Your grandma has 10ish years and your mom 40 years, during which you might have children and could pay her in lieu of daycare. All this assuming they live to at least 100.

[Deleted]

Mobile homes don't hold their value, but they do provide shelter. This isn't about making an investment for the next generation, it's about having a place to live for the remainder of their lives. The last thing these two need is a house to maintain.

I would suggest that they use a portion of that money to move back to MI, where trailers and lot rent is much cheaper and manageable. In most mobile home communities, they would only have to worry about mowing a tiny yard and maintaining the trailer itself...no water and sewer line repairs, road repairs, property taxes, etc. I would also suggest it be put in your mother's name. So if the trailer is paid off and the rent is as low as $250 or even less, and Grandma still had $10k in savings, and your mom finds a part time job, they should be fine.

And I know all of MM seems to be worried about medical expenses, but the there are millions of olds who live from social security check to social security check and make it work. Most Americans have no where near $10k in savings and they somehow manage to make it through life. Chances are if you have a medical expense that's over $10k you're fucked anyways.

[1yeartogo]

I think I should respond since my situation is similar (no grandma) but a broke mom who is in a decent job but plans to retire at 62 in a few years and has no savings, significant issues with money (anything she has she spends), and problems with alcohol. She is also on husband #3 but it is dysfunctional and they will probably separate when she has no earned income and only the reduced SS payment.

We own a plot of land and my sister and I have considered buying a mobile home and gifting it to her for her retirement just so that she doesn't end up begging to come live with one of us. Our other option is to sell the plot and get probably 30/40k and put it aside and we give her a certain amount for rent each month until it runs out which isn't ideal since it wouldn't last that long.

In your situation, I would say no to this plan. It is 2/3 of grandmas savings and there is no way for her to get this money back. If she spends it down and gets on a senior housing list she may be able to get subsidized care as needed later, especially if she becomes unable to provide her own care. Additionally plot rental fees could be increase or change over time and then it would be $ she doesn't have to move or find something/somewhere new. They are also in a high cost of living area so other living expenses will add up.

Your mom needs to figure out a way to start bringing in some type of income (you mentioned lack of skills but this will not become easier the older she gets). She can look into things like pet sitting/ babysitting, retail, etc just to get something going. She should save as much as possible and you all should try to write up a tentative budget together to figure out basic costs and expenses vs income. Sometimes it really sucks Being the responsible one in a parent relationship.

[WOUNDTIGHT]

This is a bit besides the point, but what happens to your sisters when they turn 18? Is mom going to kick them out and go live in a trailer with grandma?

And yes, I think it's time for mom to get a job. Wal-Mart greeting takes almost no skill set.

[iheartbanjos]

I think that getting back to Michigan would be the #1 goal if it were my family and that is what they wanted. If they are considering moving into a mobile home, then they probably do not have many items. Is there a family member that could help them with the move (not even financially), but can someone drive a U Haul, put together IKEA furniture and/or pick up Craigslist furniture?

Your mom is so young, that I do not think a depreciating asset like a mobile home is a good play. Getting to a LCOL area for the long term makes a lot of sense, if it's a place they want to be.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2016 6:41:47 GMT -5 papiercherri said:

Mobile homes don't hold their value, but they do provide shelter. This isn't about making an investment for the next generation, it's about having a place to live for the remainder of their lives. The last thing these two need is a house to maintain.

I would suggest that they use a portion of that money to move back to MI, where trailers and lot rent is much cheaper and manageable. In most mobile home communities, they would only have to worry about mowing a tiny yard and maintaining the trailer itself...no water and sewer line repairs, road repairs, property taxes, etc. I would also suggest it be put in your mother's name. So if the trailer is paid off and the rent is as low as $250 or even less, and Grandma still had $10k in savings, and your mom finds a part time job, they should be fine.

And I know all of MM seems to be worried about medical expenses, but the there are millions of olds who live from social security check to social security check and make it work. Most Americans have no where near $10k in savings and they somehow manage to make it through life. Chances are if you have a medical expense that's over $10k you're fucked anyways.

This post really rang true for me. Having an "investment" is not on anyone's radar in this situation. My grandma wants to see that my mom will have a house over her head when my grandma dies, and my grandma sees this as the only way to make this happen.

Bootstrapping is just not my mom's mindset. Her life's ambition has been to find a man to take care of her. I have 100% bootstrapped my life, and it's not easy. I know my mom needs to just get up and make something happen for herself, but I honestly don't ever see that happening. How she can ignore her impending doom is beyond me. That sounds dramatic, but really, I was relieved to hear this whole mobile home scheme even if I think it's not entirely a good idea.

Let's be honest though, even if she does get a minimum wage job, homebuying is not in her future. A minimum wage job isn't going to get her a down payment, and no bank will give a mortgage to a single 60 year old with a minimum wage income, no savings/assets, and no down payment.

Also, hugs to 1yeartogo. Our situations sound eerily similar and it is so stressful.

WOUNDTIGHT, you asked about my sisters. One of them has done well in high school and is applying to college at big state schools.  My other sister has struggled a bit, and is looking at community colleges. Their dad is very well off, and he buys them whatever they want (they have nice cars, name brand clothes, he'll pay tuition, etc.).  Technically our mom and their dad have 50/50 custody, but they spend more time at his house since he has the nicer house and they have their own bedrooms there. Plus, he owns restaurants and is gone often so they're left alone there (that's a whole separate issue for another post, but I digress).

[Wanderista]

I would encourage your mom to go to temp agencies to find work. She doesn't necessarily need a lot of experience to get called in as a temp receptionist or something. If she is a reliable worker, then a temp agency can keep offering her contracts until she gets a full-time job. It's a good way to get out of unemployment even with limited experience. The more that she does it, the more experience she would have.

I agree that if cost of living is much lower in Michigan then I'd encourage them to move. I don't know whether having them closer to you would be an upside or a downside for you.

I wouldn't say to totally ignore their problems but just to be willing to draw a kind of mental line between their life and yours, just to limit the contagion of their stresses spilling over to you. That's especially true if your mom won't get a job (even retail) but keeps complaining about a lack of money.

I can relate. My mom has a great retirement but some of her expectations are unrealistic. I love her but she's the cliche of a pampered Baby Boomer who has no idea about the modern workforce. (My mom has money but complains about it and is probably not the best at managing it). I have had to draw a kind of mental line where I care but I'm also able to step away and not internalize her problems. That's not the same as totally writing her off or being really insensitive.

[Pom]

@bellakitty, hugs dude, this seems like a really tough one. I have no advice that hasn't been already been offered but I am glad to know your sisters have a path to higher education. Keep us posted and as Wanderista mentioned, limit your exposure to this stress as much as you are able.

[konapoppy]

Hugs @bellakitty. We had a very similar situation with my GMIL and MIL 7 years ago. Having a roof over their head is critical. I agree with others who have said to not worry so much about savings or your mom getting a job. I do think a mobile home gives flexibility. MIL and GMIL lived in one for years and it gave them a better life and us peace of mind. They should look out for scams when purchasing. I am sure you can help them find a good deal. Hang in there.

[followyourarrow]

On the surface it sounds like a decent plan, but I'd have concerns about it. Mobil homes don't last very long, they'll need a fair amount of work in 10 years. The other issue would be if your grandma, or even your mom end up in a wheelchair, they aren't built for that generally, but not to say it can't be done. I honestly don't know what to advise, it would be a roof over their heads, but it's not a great long term solution. Hugs. My parents have their heads buried in the sand too.

[niq]

When your mom is 62, she can start getting some retirement benefits through SS. If she was married to any of her husbands for at least ten years, she'll get the larger amount of her benefits OR half her husband's benefits. There's no chance she has access to any pension/401k/IRA through divorce settlements?

Also at 62, a lot more low income senior housing options will open up. They usually have waitlists, but they eventually open up because, well, the tenants move on to another plane of existence. I would check both in Oregon and Michigan.

I would try again to get her to look into part-time work. I know chronic pain + getting old is very hard to deal with, which makes it hard to keep up the energy levels to keep a job. Does she like small kids? Maybe there is a nearby daycare center or after-school program that could use someone for half the day a few days a week?

ETA Also I'm very sorry you're dealing with this, it's absolutely no fun.

[kadams767]

As someone who has gone through/is going through a somewhat similar situation with her mother, I think that you need to prepare for the very real possibility that your mother will not get a job. I'm sorry to burst the bubble of everyone in this thread insisting that she get a job NOW!, but that is just not reality and any job she may get should be considered as an added bonus, not the actual plan. LOL for days that anyone can just go be the Walmart greeter, because apparently there are millions of openings for that job and just not enough low-skill workers to fill it and they are just waiting for the day your mom walks in the door. I'm sorry to be harsh, OP, because I know this situation sucks. But my mom was a SAHM until my dad passed away, with very minimal work experience for 20 years. She did end up finding work in a restaurant, and was there for the next 9 years, but the restaurant closed and my mom was 58 years old and has been unable to find a job now for 5 years. And not because she just didn't apply at Walmart.

What does your mom's SS situation look like? In order to help her, I think that she needs to speak with a SS office and map out exactly what SS benefits are available to her, in detailed amounts and at what age. Knowing exactly what would be coming from SS helped immensely in us getting through this.

[lys]

Google your County senior services, aging & disability services, senior housing, senior social services etc.  Michigan offers a good deal of government funded or subsidized offerings for the elderly.  

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2016 11:53:05 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

As someone who has gone through/is going through a somewhat similar situation with her mother, I think that you need to prepare for the very real possibility that your mother will not get a job. I'm sorry to burst the bubble of everyone in this thread insisting that she get a job NOW!, but that is just not reality and any job she may get should be considered as an added bonus, not the actual plan. LOL for days that anyone can just go be the Walmart greeter, because apparently there are millions of openings for that job and just not enough low-skill workers to fill it and they are just waiting for the day your mom walks in the door. I'm sorry to be harsh, OP, because I know this situation sucks. But my mom was a SAHM until my dad passed away, with very minimal work experience for 20 years. She did end up finding work in a restaurant, and was there for the next 9 years, but the restaurant closed and my mom was 58 years old and has been unable to find a job now for 5 years. And not because she just didn't apply at Walmart.

What does your mom's SS situation look like? In order to help her, I think that she needs to speak with a SS office and map out exactly what SS benefits are available to her, in detailed amounts and at what age. Knowing exactly what would be coming from SS helped immensely in us getting through this.

Yes, all these "she needs a job" people are killing me.

I've been wishing my MIL would get a job for 12 years and I'll probably be wishing for at least 12 more. If people aren't bootstrapping when they're 30, chances are they won't be bootstrapping when they're 60.

And even if they are bootstrapping, good luck finding a company that wants to hire a 60 year old. I realize it's possible, but it's not exactly probable, either.

Plan for the worst, OP.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2016 12:15:39 GMT -5 papiercherri said:

Sept 14, 2016 11:53:05 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

As someone who has gone through/is going through a somewhat similar situation with her mother, I think that you need to prepare for the very real possibility that your mother will not get a job. I'm sorry to burst the bubble of everyone in this thread insisting that she get a job NOW!, but that is just not reality and any job she may get should be considered as an added bonus, not the actual plan. LOL for days that anyone can just go be the Walmart greeter, because apparently there are millions of openings for that job and just not enough low-skill workers to fill it and they are just waiting for the day your mom walks in the door. I'm sorry to be harsh, OP, because I know this situation sucks. But my mom was a SAHM until my dad passed away, with very minimal work experience for 20 years. She did end up finding work in a restaurant, and was there for the next 9 years, but the restaurant closed and my mom was 58 years old and has been unable to find a job now for 5 years. And not because she just didn't apply at Walmart.

What does your mom's SS situation look like? In order to help her, I think that she needs to speak with a SS office and map out exactly what SS benefits are available to her, in detailed amounts and at what age. Knowing exactly what would be coming from SS helped immensely in us getting through this.

Yes, all these "she needs a job" people are killing me.

I've been wishing my MIL would get a job for 12 years and I'll probably be wishing for at least 12 more. If people aren't bootstrapping when they're 30, chances are they won't be bootstrapping when they're 60.

And even if they are bootstrapping, good luck finding a company that wants to hire a 60 year old. I realize it's possible, but it's not exactly probable, either.

Plan for the worst, OP.

It's illegal to age discriminate. That starts at age 45. So. My mother is terrible with money. She finally got a job after my dad stopped paying her bills. She did it on the premise of "work or be homeless". Ideally, she should get a job. My mom did part time substitute teaching after passing a simple test and background check initially. She mainly popped movies in, handed out papers, and make sure the kids didn't die. When they called her and she wasn't feeling well, she could turn down the job for the day.
 
What will likely end up happening, use the savings to move g'ma and mom  to OP's area and OP will become her mother's cash cow. Fin.