Swimmers, come in

[mrshandy]

Just curious where everyone lies on certain things. I had my swim class and it went fine. I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle of the pack. I'm not just looking for a workout like some people. But I feel pretty comfortable with my breathing technique. I want to learn skills that will make me a more efficient swimmer and build up my endurance in the water. Also learn how to do different strokes.

Bilateral breathing - Do you do it? Why or why not?

Flip turns - Yay or nay? If so, how did you learn to do them? Any good drills?

Kicking- There's a girl in my class that is a triathlete. The teacher was asking her about kicking. She said she tries not to do it very much since she is saving her legs for the bike and the run. Is this a thing that all triathlete's do? Do you do it?



Thanks for indulging me! I'm really enjoying swimming and feel like I'm getting better every week. 

[kams]

Bilateral breathing is great because in open water swimming, you'll need to breathe to the side where the sun isn't rising. However, I tend to breathe to my right when possible, but I practice bilateral to be sure I'm efficient on both sides.

I do flip turns because I swam as a kid and you do them in races. I don't know of a particular drill. I would ask your coach to go over it for a few minutes when she/he can. I recall my adult coach encouraging others to do it for a few reasons, and I think he said it increases lung capacity.

I do a 2-beat kick. Definitely a thing in middle-long distance swimming.

[shauni27]

I am by no means a swimmer much anymore--but as a kid and teenager I was on the swim team for years. I used to be great at bilateral breathing and flip turns (they were required on swim team). Now that I am not as great a swimmer, I SUCK at bilateral breathing and breathing in general, therefore I do not always do flip turns. However, once I join my new gym this fall/winter, I am going to work on my swimming a LOT more, so I can improve everything, but especially my breathing.

I'm really looking forward to taking swimming more seriously; I really enjoyed it this summer while doing laps in training for the tri.

[al320]

Bilateral - i know i should, but i only do it when its specified in the workout. Im just more comfortable breathing on one side. I *can* bilateral if i need to. Ive never had an issue with it at a race.

Flip turns - i do, and ive come a long way, but ive improved a ton. None of the triathletes i swim with do, you dont really have to if thats the sole reason youre in the pool, but i think it helps overall.
Eta i dont know of any drills. Its just taken a LOT of practice. Be patient with your turns, its not easy.

Kicking - a friend of mine who is in a tri club was told this. I find it SO weird. She was also told to flex her feet though. This is my pov - my pull sucks. Just pulling is going to: 1. Exhaust me 2. Slow me the hell down. I dont find kicking normally to wear out my legs at all, but im a relative newbie in the tri world. I think having overall good swim form is really important.

[taratru]

I'm no swimmer, but I'm swimming for the same reasons you are.

I breathe on one side. I know I should do both because it will keep me straighter and the sun, but I don't. I can, but I don't. I like the rhythm I use.

Flip turns? I'll probably never use them, so I'm not even going to bother. DH says it doesn't really make a huge difference in the kind of swimming I'm doing.

I kick very little. Pretty much it's just a quick flutter when I stroke after a breath. I noticed triathletes don't kick that much in the pool, so I figured that's what I should do, too. Ha! I'm such a newb.

[clseale]

I have no answers for any of this, but just wanted to chime in that I have heard the same thing about kicking. AT IMAZ last year I was talking to the wife of one of our athletes (she's a runner, but was getting into longer distance tris) and she said their swim coach told her that transitioning to swimming is usually most difficult for runners because we have to unlearn everything we know. Quicker turnover is a GOOD thing in running, but she said it makes all of her runners turned swimmers kick way too much.

I also noticed this during the Olympics when watching Katie Ledecky, particularly in the 800. She was barely kicking at all in the first half of the race. Her legs didn't really start working until the last few laps.

[keweenawlove]

I consider myself more of a "runner that does triathlons" as opposed to a trained swimmer so here's my answers.

I do bilateral breathing because I was told it helps keep you straight in open water. I'm pretty regular at breathing every 3rd stroke in the pool. In open water, it is nice to feel comfortable breathing on both sides if it's wavy or something and one side makes more sense.

I've never learned flip turns. Every once in a while I think I want to learn if I see an indoor tri posted. Then I never do it. I do like that my pool times are more comparable to my open water times than they would be with flip turns.

I've heard the same thing about kicking. If I'm just doing a swim workout in the pool, I definitely kick. Someones in a tri, I'll lay off kicking for some of the swim, especially if it's a longer distance. But I'm not one that should be handing out form tips....

[kams]

One more little tidbit about the kicking -- my coach always recommended that we pick up our kick just the last couple 100 meters to get the blood back in to our legs to run into transition. I find this helpful to avoid the wobbly sea legs feeling.

[CallingAllAngels]

1) Like others, I can breathe on either side, but I have a preferred side. Sometimes I make myself breathe on the other side just for practice.

2) I do flip turns about half the time. I don't like doing them in the shallow end of the pool.

3) I don't really kick. Not by design or anything, I just tend to drag my legs. I was watching the Olympics and thinking I should really try kicking more. Maybe I'll be like Katie Ledecky if I did.

[wawa]

Thoughts from a relative newb -

Bilateral breathing - Do you do it? Why or why not? - I wasn't until recently. Mostly because I just didn't want to because it feels super awkard. But when I started doing more open water practice I learned that I DO NOT swim in a straight line naturally, and most of my googles on the topic told me that I'm probably just really uneven on my stroke and the first way to fix that is to breath bilaterally. So...I'm doing it now. I still hate it. It's awkward. But definitely getting easier/less awkard. I am not sure if it's helping with my veering left since every time I swim open water the conditions are slightly different (tide, current, wind, etc) but I *think* it is.

Flip turns - Yay or nay? If so, how did you learn to do them? Any good drills? - Nope. haven't bothered. I asked and emilyj and mrs.jacinthe told me I didn't have to, so I don't. It's still on my list of things to learn eventually, but I'm in no rush. I think I'd need a day with a whole lane to myself so I don't mess somebody else up and that doesn't happen often at my pool.


Kicking- There's a girl in my class that is a triathlete. The teacher was asking her about kicking. She said she tries not to do it very much since she is saving her legs for the bike and the run. Is this a thing that all triathlete's do? Do you do it? - I've heard this a lot, but I do not do this. Kicking is just naturally what my legs do when I'm swimming? If I FORCE them to just drag behind me it feels weird and makes it harder for the rest of my mechanics to line up right (rotation, my hips sink, etc). I don't kick hard though - just an gentle flutter kick. (probably 6 beat? I guess?)

[wawa]

re: kicking - I thought this was really interesting.
www.feelforthewater.com/2014/02/should-you-be-using-two-beat-kick.html

[shorewife]

I bilateral breathe because that is what is most comforatble for me - to breathe every 3 strokes.

Yes to flip-turns but I was a swimmer as a kid so I already knew how when I started tris.  I'm not sure if its any real benefit though since you would never be doing one in a tri.

I'm not really sure what I do for kicking.  I don't think I kick particularly hard, but I don't conciously not kick to save my legs either.  I don't recall ever thinking my legs were spent already when getting out from the swim.

Hope this helps!

[mysticmuffin]

Thoughts from someone who is still making this up as I go.

Bilateral breathing - Do you do it? Why or why not?
I've practiced this a lot, but it is still very unnatural for me. I'm working on it. Part of it is that I can't turn my head as easily to the left. I should really get that looked at...


Flip turns - Yay or nay? If so, how did you learn to do them? Any good drills?
Nope. I might try to learn eventually, but it's not a priority for me.


Kicking- There's a girl in my class that is a triathlete. The teacher was asking her about kicking. She said she tries not to do it very much since she is saving her legs for the bike and the run. Is this a thing that all triathlete's do? Do you do it?
I try not to kick too hard and lean heavily on my pulling. If I don't kick at all my hips drop too much.

[juliabug]

I approach swimming solely from a triathlete perspective, ymmv.

Bilaterally breathing- Always. In calm open water it helps me to swim straight and in choppy water I have the option to breathe on the side where I won't get a mouth full of water.

Flip turns- No. I occasionally do a pool swim tri, but those are usually "fun" races with friends rather than my A race. I would do them if I knew how, but I don't and my time is better spent on other drills than trying to learn flip turns.

Kicking - I'm a pretty light kicker in order to save my legs for the bike and run, too. I do some kick sets though. My pull laps are almost as fast as free style laps because I really don't kick hard.

[coconutbug]

Bilateral breathing - I sometimes do this in open water to sight, but I don't do it in the pool. It's not natural for me.

Flip turns - I was on swim teams in junior high and high school, so I learned how to flip turn then and continue to do so.

Kicking - I've heard that about kicking before, but I still tend to kick a lot during tris. I have a strong kick and a weak pull though, and kicking doesn't ever tire out my legs.

[mrshandy]

Thanks everyone! This is very helpful to see what others do.

I started bilateral breathing after reading swimming tips that @vtcupcake so kindly posted. I feel pretty comfortable with it now. Stroke, stroke, breathe, stroke, stroke, breathe.

I'm still figuring out kicking. I think I do it slightly but not too hard or fast. 

I do want to learn flip turns because why not? and I get annoyed having to lose my momentum every lap. Real running isn't going to happen for another month probably   , so I might as well put my all into swimming. 

[mrs.jacinthe]

Bilateral: I can, but I don't. I prefer to breathe to the right and that's how I roll. It's more helpful, IMO, to be able to breathe unilaterally to both sides.

Kicking: it's a fairly common misconception among triathletes, mostly because many of them over kick to begin with. If your stroke is good, you should be able to kick throughout and not wear yourself out. If you have to over kick to get anywhere, you need to work on your overall stroke first.

Flip turns - eh. I don't. You can, especially if you intend to do more pool triathlons. But not necessary for ows.

[ktzmoh]

I can technically bilateral breath. But I'm not good at it. I naturally breathe to one side and i am very clumsy breathing to the other. I do drills to work on it (mostly ladder-type breathing drills where you breathe every other stroke, then every 3, then every 4, then every 5 and back down), but I just stick with what feels best for me and know that in really bad conditions if there are waves coming from my breathing side, I could get through it breathing on the other side.

I do flip turns because it helps me maintain my rhythm in longer sets, and also helps me increase my lung capacity. Also, i feel like I'm doing a little squat jump every lap, so it totally counts as strength work too. (LOL!)

kicking - my legs are not still in the water, but I definitely have a very gentle kick. Just enough to keep good body position and keep my hips and knees loose. But I don't kick aggressively until the last little bit of the open water swim (like kams mentioned - to get the blood flowing). I'm sure my light kick is one of the reasons I'm slow, but I think the energy expenditure kicking in the water is not worth the few minutes i would gain in a race when I could put that energy into the bike or run KWIM?

[al320]

Sept 15, 2016 11:45:07 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

Bilateral: I can, but I don't. I prefer to breathe to the right and that's how I roll. It's more helpful, IMO, to be able to breathe unilaterally to both sides.

Kicking: it's a fairly common misconception among triathletes, mostly because many of them over kick to begin with. If your stroke is good, you should be able to kick throughout and not wear yourself out. If you have to over kick to get anywhere, you need to work on your overall stroke first.

Flip turns - eh. I don't. You can, especially if you intend to do more pool triathlons. But not necessary for ows.

Yes, this is exactly where i am with kicking!!

[emilyj]

Bilateral breathing - Do you do it? Why or why not? I do.  One, because I like knowing I can breathe on either side if there's something going wonky going on in open water (waves, sun, whatever), and two, because if I only breathe on one side, my shoulder starts hurting. 

Flip turns - Yay or nay? If so, how did you learn to do them? Any good drills? I basically do them if I feel like it.  I learned at Masters practice one day.  Our coach dedicated an entire practice to flip turns and drills, so I basically had no choice.  Drills?  Nope.  There was one we did at practice, but I have no idea how to explain it. 

Kicking- There's a girl in my class that is a triathlete. The teacher was asking her about kicking. She said she tries not to do it very much since she is saving her legs for the bike and the run. Is this a thing that all triathlete's do? Do you do it? I barely kick.  I never have, even when I was in swim lessons when I was younger.  If you've seen me, you know I have really broad, swimmer's shoulders.  All my power comes from my pull.  I honestly can't figure out HOW to kick.  As for it being a triathlete thing, maybe? One of my past coaches said I should start kicking about 200m from the finish, to get my legs moving and warmed up for the bike.  

[bluelikejazz]

I just want to add a bit about flip turns. It's an awesome core workout in addition to the swimming itself, and helps maintain momentum in long sets in the water.

An easy drill for them is to do a mid-pool flip/summersault every 5-7 strokes. You'll get 2-3 in each length. Also, it helps with the technique of flipping with your stroke.

Hope that makes sense.

[Susie]

Sept 15, 2016 7:29:50 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

Bilateral breathing - Do you do it? Why or why not?  I breathe every 2 or 4, so same-side, but I'm equally happy with left or right.  I don't do the every-3, and don't think it's necessary, but I do think that being ABLE to comfortably breathe to either side is important, especially in open water.

Flip turns - Yay or nay? If so, how did you learn to do them? Any good drills?  I do, but I'm a swimmer-turned-triathlete.  They're 2nd nature to me.  Most of my tri friends do not (and have zero interest in learning).

Kicking- There's a girl in my class that is a triathlete. The teacher was asking her about kicking. She said she tries not to do it very much since she is saving her legs for the bike and the run. Is this a thing that all triathlete's do? Do you do it?  I have a 2 beat kick, and that is handy for tris to not have a heavy-kicking stroke.

SaveSave

[SallyJ]

I bilateral breathe because my stroke is imbalanced if I don't. It looks like I am limp swimming, if that makes any sense. I also have a strong need for balance...part personality, part influence from ballet.

I usually flip because I was a swimmer in HS and it feels easy and natural. If i am trying to work something specific then I don't. I never flip turn with backstroke because I hit my nose hard one time in HS and it gives me anxiety now.

My legs are my power so I often kick them hard and fast, which pushes my arms and I end up going out too fast and too hard. I have to always think about slowing my kick rhythm. I do work pull and kicks separate, as well as use other strokes, so sometimes I am not kicking or not flip turning.

[hurricanedrunk]

Also a newbie swimmer who is more of a runner turned triathlete.

Bilateral breathing - Comfortably I can only breath from my left side. Right now I am working in my master swim class to be able to do the right side with bilateral breathing. Working on this for all the reasons mentioned - crooked stoke, being able to switch during OWS if there are waves or sun issues to my preferred side.

Flips - I don't know how to do them and don't intend to learn at this point. I have never tried but if I continue to swim I will learn how to do it, it seems like a more continuous workout.

Kicking - I swim breast stroke a lot so I do kick fairly hard during that stroke. When I was first learning freestyle my legs were a lot of my power and know I did a lot of "quad kicking" which zapped my energy. Now that I have worked on my form and built up strength in my arms and back majority of my power comes from my stroke and not my kick. I flutter them slowly- my body is built that frog kicking is much more natural for me. I remember reading on one of the beginner websites that was shared here that since the quads are the largest muscle group they take up the most oxygen so if you are feeling tired to kick less. For some reason that has stuck with me.

[moreace01]

Another newbie swimmer.

Bilateral breathing - I can't do it. I've tried and tried and it just isn't happening for me. I breathe on my left only. Maybe over winter I'll work on it. I've had tri coaches that promote bilateral and breathing on every third stroke and I've also had tri coaches that say every second is more efficient. So...there you go. I'm sticking with breathing on my left for now.

Flips - I don't do it. I get dizzy and don't need to do it in open water anyway so...

Kicking - I kick from my hip. I have no idea if what I'm doing is right or not. But it works for me. My pull is not especially strong so I need a little assistance. Kicking keeps me more even in the water. Anyway, overall I need to work on my swim this winter a little bit.