I would kill for some proper Jewish deli cole slaw. If I ever bring my ass back to NY/NJ, that will be one of the first things I eat.
In all seriousness, I believe black folks particularly in America owe a huge debt to Jews. If there were ever to be a whole history text dedicated to Black America, I would expect to see sections to be dedicated to Jewish folks who have stepped up and fought for equality.
Anti-semitism is so pervasive though and I cannot fathom how people are brand new. Do people not realize how many of the Red Scare tactics are tied to anti-semitism? I would think Bunny should know that. But I would guess probably not since communism as a whole has worked actively to persecute Jews while pretending to include them so the rhetoric today likely excludes them too.
I remember seeing a movie when I was a teenager with William H Macy. It was set in the 50s. WHM lives on this little suburban block, just doing what he does every day and then he is prescribed glasses. And once he starts wearing them, his neighbors decide he's Jewish and it all goes downhill for him.
By the time I saw that movie, I was already down deep in the Holocaust history hole but I think I'd point to that movie as the moment I realized there was more to anti-semitism than Himmler and prep school discrimination. I watched it and thought that kind of mentality doesn't go away. It just manifests itself in different ways over time.
And none of it is very different from what POC experience. The attitude of protecting little white girls from Jewish/black men, the idea that they are stealing something from white christian folks, the exclusion of Jews/POC of color from neighborhoods, community activities, job/education discrimination, the denial of their culture, accusation of deserving the way they are treated, the disparaging of their culture and communities, etc.
A slight tangent with a history that many may not know, connected to the alliances forged between Jews and black scholars in the US. A number of black colleges took in Jewish refugee professors when no one else would help them. The museum I worked for did a special exhibition about it and its a really cool connection, I think.
A slight tangent with a history that many may not know, connected to the alliances forged between Jews and black scholars in the US. A number of black colleges took in Jewish refugee professors when no one else would help them. The museum I worked for did a special exhibition about it and its a really cool connection, I think.
The first I thought of was Julius Rosenwald, who partnered with African American communities to fund some 5,300 schools for African American children in the Jim Crow-era South. He is my mom's personal hero.
Even people who know and believe the Holocaust happened are not fully educated about the atrocities that occurred. They know about the larger camps but are largely unaware that there was a network of them across all parts of Europe. There were thousands of these camps. Some were work camps. Some were primarily for political prisoners. Some were designed first and foremost for death.
But there is a whole world of atrocities outside of the camps that seems to be largely unknown. I find the vast majority of people are unaware of the Einsatzgruppen. They are also unaware of the atrocities that were committed by those outside of the Nazi party. And they are unaware of the atrocities committed outside of the areas under direct Nazi control. Their knowledge seems to rest largely on what is covered on a page and a half of their 8th grade history book.
I think this is true. Many of the atrocities aren't covered in high school - I don't think the curriculum allows for enough time for most anything in US or World history. But I also think continuing to look into issues you don't understand after school is what would really be great to instill in teens/young adults. I think so much of our discovery of history happens because of a personal connection.
Anecdote: I learned about Holocaust history and Judaism (more cultural than religious) because I took German in high school and our teacher had escaped being sent to the camps, as a child, from eastern Europe. Her own personal story of hiding in a hay truck with her sibling and having the Nazi's stab the hay around them as they traveled to England and then the US piqued my interest. I went on to take a lot of university German literature/history courses. The best (and most shocking) was Literature of the Holocaust and Survivors. I learned so much and it really did continue with literature written in French concentration camps and in Israel since then. Even then, I only know and understand a very small percentage, and not being Jewish, I don't feel it as personally. I again read more after visiting a camp outside Prague in grad school. This thread has opened my eyes up even more and made me want to revisit information on the conflict. Thanks to everyone for the recommendations.
I'm still learning. Just a couple weeks ago I heard a podcast about how Jewish American army men at the end of WWII were assigned to a camp outside New York to wine, dine, and win over German scientists who had worked for the Nazis and were now courted by the US government. Can you imagine that someone you were trained to kill and is exterminating your own religion and relatives would be who you are assigned to wine/dine?!?! I realize I've read and learned almost nothing about the Nazi-sympathizers who were repatriated in the US. It's act 2 of the This American Podcast Deep End of the Pool - m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/595/deep-end-of-the-pool
I'm still learning. Just a couple weeks ago I heard a podcast about how Jewish American army men at the end of WWII were assigned to a camp outside New York to wine, dine, and win over German scientists who had worked for the Nazis and were now courted by the US government. Can you imagine that someone you were trained to kill and is exterminating your own religion and relatives would be who you are assigned to wine/dine?!?! I realize I've read and learned almost nothing about the Nazi-sympathizers who were repatriated in the US. It's act 2 of the This American Podcast Deep End of the Pool - m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/595/deep-end-of-the-pool
You should look into reading Operation Paperclip. Horrified doesn't even cover how I feel about what our government did in regards to courting Nazi scientists.
Oh my, I had forgotten about that thread. Oh boy...........
I had almost forgotten the sig Emmybean used to have with a kid with Down syndrome and text saying something about the r-word. I was not sorry to see her go.
ETA: I feel like we need another thread to rehash the past. I don't want to threadjack this one.
Oh my, I had forgotten about that thread. Oh boy...........
I had almost forgotten the sig Emmybean used to have with a kid with Down syndrome and text saying something about the r-word. I was not sorry to see her go.
ETA: I feel like we need another thread to rehash the past. I don't want to threadjack this one.
I wonder if this was what she and dylanite bonded over...
I wonder if this was what she and dylanite bonded over...
you know it was. offensiveness as foreplay
*snort*
FWIW, I think his was the "berks!" pic which is absolutely NOT a kid with SN at all. I read a follow up on that and it just turns out to be an "embarrassing" (in the subject's words) pic that her sister posted as a goof that went internet-crazy.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
I was going to ask the same question on the WOC board because a lot of my thoughts come from my father who was born in 1933 and lived through it all...
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
I am honestly interested in exploring this. I didn't post the example of Jack Greenberg above as an example of anyone owing anyone anything. But in my mind, perhaps erroneously, I think of Jews playing a prominent, positive role in the Civil Rights Movement in the U.S. as well as in the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
There is a lot of interplay between the groups. There was a fair bit of mutual sympathy. Jews were targeted by the KKK as well, there were 'gentlemen's agreements' about selling property to either, and so on.
As pointed out above Jews were very involved in the Civil Rights movement. Due to blue laws they understood how dangerous Jim Crowe laws and the inability to vote were for African Americans.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
The only thing I've heard, and there's probably more, is accusations that Jews were involved in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. AFAIK, there isn't any truth to those allegations.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
This is true in the context of urban neighborhoods in the north like Boston and Brooklyn. But in terms of the fight for civil rights, Jews have been very active in those struggles. Many of the kids on those freedom rides were Jewish
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
There is a lot of interplay between the groups. There was a fair bit of mutual sympathy. Jews were targeted by the KKK as well, there were 'gentlemen's agreements' about selling property to either, and so on.
As pointed out above Jews were very involved in the Civil Rights movement. Due to blue laws they understood how dangerous Jim Crowe laws and the inability to vote were for African Americans.
Fighting The Devil in Dixie may be one of the books that explores the participation of Jewish activists and lawyers in the Civil Rights movement, but I could be mixing it up with something else I've read in the last few years.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
You mean beside the NOI?
Just looked up the slave trade thing, and that came from the NOI.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
You mean beside the NOI?
Yes. I mean I don't know specifics but this is what I thought. But I will have to look when I get some wifi which won't be today.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
This is true in the context of urban neighborhoods in the north like Boston and Brooklyn. But in terms of the fight for civil rights, Jews have been very active in those struggles. Many of the kids on those freedom rides were Jewish
I'm not talking about that. I know Jewish people were very involved and even died along side black people during the Civil rights movement. Like I said I don't know the specifics it was just when this harmonious relationship was mentioned it triggered a memory of hearing that.
Yes. I mean I don't know specifics but this is what I thought. But I will have to look when I get some wifi which won't be today.
Does a large part of the Black Community go along with the NOI though? I am the wrong one to ask because lord knows they would see my H and not have the time of day for me.
Thank you to everyone who posted in here. I've been reading along on the threads on MM Moms, trying to educate myself about racism and microagressions, and I'm adding the articles in here to my reading list as well. I live in a city without a large Jewish population so a lot of the issues brought up in here weren't on my radar at all.
I've spent most of my day catching up on this post and the communism post. I appreciate all the women who have contributed their own experiences and the experiences of their families. I certainly realized that anti-Semitism still existed and is part of our country's strong history of prejudice and discrimination, but I didn't realize such blatant acts were still in existence today.
I feel like I only know the surface of history for so many topics, be it the Holocaust, slavery or many other subjects I think I know about. I obviously have lots of reading and listening to do.
Post by imimahoney on Sept 19, 2016 16:50:45 GMT -5
I think the connection between Jewish and Black communities is going to vary quite a bit depending on when and where.
The Bronx of the late 1950s and early 1960s was not a magical place of friendship and acceptance, especially with Jews trying to assimilate into waspy America and rise above their social standing.
On the flip side, Jewish clergy members and hundreds of young college students actively and proudly participated in the civil rights movement.
I see this has kinda moved on but I always thought historically their was a lot more hostility between black people and Jewish people. Not this harmonious black people owe Jewish people a debt of gratitude side. I will have to Google when I get some wifi.
I struggle with the South African Jewish history. I do know a lot supported and worked towards the end of aparieid in Sth Africa but many were as complacent as the rest of the white community only to flee when apartheid ended (some for the very valid reason that countries undergoing political stability tended to turn on the Jewish population). I have a Jewish blood line that hasn't been practiced much since pre WW1 and grew up in a large Jewish community, this post has helped me question some of my anti Israel thoughts so thank you for that, it will be a very interesting family discussion! In terms of the number of non-Jews killed in camps I have found Holocaust museums often cover this quite well (in the past not so much but maybe that was my perspective), those in DC, Berlin and Paris definitely do.
Anyone wanna talk about whether your husband can take naked pics of you without your knowledge? I mean, if we're gonna travel down memory lane.
LOLOLOLOL
She was also among those who endorsed peeing in the shower.
I'm still working my way through this thread but I'm a loud and proud shower peer! Come at me.
Also, if I recall the r-word threads were a while ago so I hope to God my friend BB has had a change of heart because I would be genuinely crushed if anyone I knew or cared about used that word, ever.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."