Preschool frustration...

[halfpint]

I'll preface this by saying the frustration isn't 100% aimed at the school...but also at my stubborn child.

I posted before about worrying about sending B to this Montessori school, as they require kids to be 100% potty trained, able to wipe themselves and pull up and down their own pants. I went back and forth with the business manager, as we'd be out a lot of money if they asked us to leave the school - between registration fees and paying two months of tuition before classes even started. She assured me that they expected accidents, that the teachers would work with them, and that they could wear a pull up during naps if they could put it on themselves. At the time he was like 70% there - pretty good with #1, and we'd had some moderate success with #2, but we had a couple of months to get him there.

Well...he never really improved with poop on the potty. He's like 100% with pee, but he still struggles with poop. There was a pretty bad shituation last week where his underwear weren't pulled all the way up (since he has to do it himself, and no one checks to make sure he's good), he pooped on the playground, and it rolled out his short leg. Oh, and then while they were bringing him inside, more poop fell out, and apparently someone stepped in it. I'd laugh if it weren't my real life. 

We had to go in for a parent/teacher meeting this morning. For a three year old. They had out the policy manual and everything. Basically if he poops again after this week, they are going to call us and we have to come and clean it up. I get it that he's not quite where he needs to be, and they aren't set up like a daycare to change pants, but I'm so damn annoyed. They also insisted that he shouldn't use a pull up for nap times, and I feel like that has been where some of his accidents have happened. I sort of feel like the business manager led us to believe that everything would be just fine, and the teachers are kind of doubling down. And then they were like, yeah, and he needs to be able to put on his shoes and coat, like we were failing as parents that he couldn't do that yet.  

They also looked HORRIFIED when we said we were offering small rewards for pooping on the potty. "Well, that just goes against the Montessori philosophy - the child should just want to do something because it brings them joy". To which I almost laughed out loud...I mean, I get it, I'm attracted to many things about Montessori, and yes, I'd love it if all it took was the joy in his heart to get him to take a poop on a toilet, but come on. I feel like they couldn't have looked any more aghast than if I'd said, "Well, here's the paddle we use to punish him when he has an accident". 

Mostly venting...I don't know what else to do with this kid to help him. We exclusively read books about poop before bed now, we have a reward chart complete with poop emojis, stickers, and high-value prizes. Do I need to get a clicker and a crate and tackle this like I did the dogs? Ha. 

[dulcemariamar]

I am sorry that you are dealing with a difficult transition with the new school. I would totally bribe my kid. M&Ms were the only things that worked with my DD.

My DD's school is also strict with having the kids being completely PT. But I understand how nerve wrecking it can be on the parents to have no control over something that is so important. GL I hope everything works out.

[momof2]

In all seriousness, I would be looking for a new school ASAP. This would make me lose my mind. It would be very hard for me not to start cussing when they said a kid should go to the potty "for the joy of it." But, I am a person that likely would never have chosen Montessori.

[longtimenopost]

I'm sorry. I feel you - A will be 4 in January and she is pee trained but prefers to poop in her diaper, which she does at nap or nighttime. She has had one accident at preschool. They do not require kids to be fully potty trained but charge extra if they are not.

Have you spoken with the director?

[imojoebunny]

I really dislike people who shame children for potty training. I don't even understand how schools like this stay in business. I have a long list of personal antidotes, including working in a daycare for 2 years, about how wrong it is to make a big deal about a 3 year old having a poop accident, but I am guessing you don't need to hear all of those because you already know they are wrong.

[Deleted]

I would look for a new school. No one I have ever met has pooped because it brings them joy. No one.

[momin2013]

All the rewards in the world couldn't get DS to poop (or pee for that matter) in the potty until HE was ready, and that didn't happen until about a month ago at age 3.5. He's very rewards-driven, but he just didn't do it until he was ready (we'd been trying with him since he was about 3).

If I were in your situation, I think I'd be looking at other preschool options. I'd be afraid that their strong reactions towards his lack of PT could make the whole experience a very negative one for him, and that's the last thing I'd want to happen just as he was starting "school".

[jeaniebueller]

It sounds like the school isn't a good fit. I am sorry.

[cjeanette]

Sept 20, 2016 12:51:12 GMT -5 halfpint said:

They also looked HORRIFIED when we said we were offering small rewards for pooping on the potty. "Well, that just goes against the Montessori philosophy - the child should just want to do something because it brings them joy". 

Give me a break.  We did Montessori and this was not their philosophy.

[JRo]

This makes me sad for B because it sounds like they are shaming him 

Our preschool requires potty training too, but everybody is required to bring extra clothes because, "there WILL be accidents." Like, they expect it and it is nbd. They also help him wipe (we expressed concern about this before starting there because Sam is not very good at it on his own). 

Mine is also very reward driven, so I'm with you there. You know what would bring a 3 year old joy from pooping on the toilet? Getting an awesome piece of candy afterwards, lol. 

[kershnic]

Pooping for joy is pretty much the farthest opposite message from 'must be 100% poop potty trained by next week.' Wtf, they're the ones who created the pressure!!!

You can't do anything else to force him to PT. Pray for the best, argue with them to keep working with you, and start getting prepare if you need a new school. I really love a lot of things about the Montessori way, but shaming kids for potty accidents is a terrible practice.

[carolinagirl831]

That really sucks.... and I would be super annoyed. Honestly, Maybe the Montessori way isn't for you guys...

[WOUNDTIGHT]

Sorry, I'd go ahead and find a new school with a better poop philosophy (poophilosophy?)

[dcn]

That's so ridiculous. They are going to make you come and clean up? I'm sorry. I would eat the cost and find a better fit honestly. Preschools should have a thorough understanding of what is developmentally normal for kids and be able to accommodate that.

[hermione]

I would also double down. "This is all fascinating but we were informed by the business director, before we put down a deposit and paid ahead, that accidents were expected and you teachers would work with us. Seems like you should be having this conversation with him considering we were very up front about the status of our child's potty training."

[sometimesrunner]

This situation feels icky to me. If he can't properly pull up his underwear and pants, they need to give him a "lesson" as our school would call it. They need to help him master the skill. How long have these teachers been working there? Because it sounds like they're not used to the fact that what's taught in Montessori training is not always reality.

[arch01]

My kid is almost 5 and still can't reliably wipe his own ass. He also still wears Pull-Ups for naps and an overnight diaper at night. The horror!!

I'm sorry, but IMO their expectations are too high for the age group. You asked the appropriate questions prior to sending your kid there and were given a false promise it seems. I'd challenge this a bit.

[emoflamingo]

Sept 20, 2016 13:12:38 GMT -5 @savestheday said:

I would look for a new school. No one I have ever met has pooped because it brings them joy. No one.

I mean, sometimes with IBS it really does bring me joy (and sweet relief). Sorry, TMI.

OP, I would also start looking. I'm sorry that your kiddo is struggling. I am still convinced I'll have DD potty trained before DS2 ever gets there, so I feel your pain.

[vmars]

I would meet with the owner or director. G is completely pee trained and just in the past 1.5 weeks decided to start to poop on the potty. Unfortunately the rewards did not matter to him, he just had to deem it ok in his mind to use the potty. He still has accidents but he is in the potty training room at daycare so that is to be expected. But if anything is going to derail him from potty training it would be to have his mom come to school to clean up his poop. First of all the logistics are ridiculous - what if it's in an area children need to be in? They can not wait to clean it, that's just unsanitary. Maybe if they determine it's not a good fit they will refund the money since you aren't telling them you want to leave?

ETA - look up state laws regarding sanitation requirements. I am sure they are legally required to clean up accidents immediately and what they are asking would get them in trouble with the state.

[osulori]

The stuff they're requiring WRT potty training isn't appropriate for a child his age, and the whole "should bring him joy" business in this situation is a load of crap (pardon the pun). I'd find another preschool that has more realistic expectations for kids his age.

[simpsongal]

I'm sorry, I can't imagine you're the first parent to encounter this situation. Their standards sound really high/unreasonable, especially since you just started there. Even if your LO were 100% on #1&2, you'd expect some hiccups at the beginning of school (ahem, this is my kid).

w/r/t nap diapers, could you get a note from your pedi? Our pediatrician seemed to think it was ludicrous to expect PTing during naps/sleep for a very long time. Like, KOKO if your kid wakes up dry, but if that's not the case how.T.F. do you "train" for that?

[abs]

Ugh, I hate the whole pressure schools put on parents about potty training! There is such a wide range of normal on this. It's also not something you can push too hard or else you set yourself up for medical problems later on. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

I like hermione's suggestion. I would totally push back and see what they say. If they aren't willing to work with you I'd ask for a partial refund and enroll elsewhere.

[lala]

It sounds like the school isn't a good fit. I would be made that the business manager led you to believe it would be okay - but IMO, it wasn't her business to do so, that's only a call the director can make. B/c of that, I would meet with the director and push back a bit, especially WRT any refund. 

Plenty of preschools require kids to be fully potty trained to be in the 3 year old classes. They do also expect an accident or 2, especially at the beginning of the year and usually why they require a change of clothes. I do agree that wearing a diaper at nap is the right thing to do - training during sleeping is totally different than being potty trained while awake.

I don't find it surprising that a preschool for 3 year olds (NOT a daycare) that has a policy of being potty trained also requires the kids to do the wiping & dressing independently. For our school, it has to do with the licensing in those rooms, AFAIK.

[magpie]

So wait, if he poops again, they're just going to let it sit there until you can get over there to clean it up?! That's fucking ridiculous. I mean on top of the whole ridiculous attitude about potty training/toilet habits of three year olds.

I'd be looking into a new school and attempt to get some of those registration fees refunded.

[quesyrah]

I would pull my kid. Even if I lost money.

[scribellesam]

Ugh, I hate this attitude by schools about potty training. I would have needed to pull my kid, he didn't poop in the toilet reliably until he was a little over 4yo.

[cricketwife]

I'm so mad for you that I can't type an articulate response. "I'm sorry . No I'm not picking up my kid's shit because it doesn't bring me joy." I'm torn between fighting them as Hermiobe suggested and moving on. I think I'd fight for a refund based in the misinformation but I wouldn't fight to keep my kid there. A terrible fit seems like an understatement. It sounds like a hostile environment for a kid.

[CloudBee]

I have one kid. And while there are specific struggles associates to that, I'm pretty happy that I only have one kid to get zipped up into winter gear.

I have spent exactly zero time teaching DS how to put his jacket on and zip it, because I assumed it would be covered this year in his 3's preschool room. Because, you know, it's faster for me to tell him to stick his arms in and then I deal with zipping, etc.

Sounds like Montessori is not for our family!

Really, I'm not sure if it's a Montessori thing here. I think the school may not be a good fit for where he's at developmentally. I would give some major push back to the business director in an attempt to obtain a refund for days unused, and try and get him enrolled in a different program ASAP.

I'm really off-put by their attitude of calling a parent in to clean accidents. Even if they aren't licensed to change diapers or help with wiping, you can't tell me that the average preschool can't assist if there's a true accident.

[ilikedonuts]

I'd be pissed that the director told you something different. It sounds like they aren't in the classroom and they don't handle the kids then they shouldn't be promising something if the school wont follow through. It sets kids and parents up to fail due to lack of communication.

I will say If my kids pooped at school in their pants, we have to come up as well and handle it ourselves. and that's two different schools (my girls are at different schools this year), they legally by law cannot handle wiping a child's bodily waste from their body. (Cleaning up the floor, etc is a different story) without specific certification.

[halfpint]

I do think there's something about licensing/set up w/r/t being able to handle accidents. I did push back on them to please help the kid out, and make sure his underwear are covering him fully when he's done. I don't think they are shaming him, and they do ask kids to bring clothing changes for occasional accidents. He actually really seems to like the school - it took him like six months to stop crying at drop off at his last place. Here it was like a two week adjustment, and he asks us to go and get in the car in the morning so he can go to school.

But dammit...I'm just so annoyed with this whole thing.