Please tell Governor Brown the murders must stop

[sonrisa]

If you live in California, I ask that you contact our Governor Jerry Brown.  Please ask him to condemn the actions of the police officers involved in today's shooting of Alfred Olango, an unarmed man in El Cajon, and press for their prosecution.

govnews.gov.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Phone: [phone]

(The news story: www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Officer-Involved-Shooting-in-El-Cajon-395014341.html)

Edited to add on Friday 9/29: Call him again today about today's murder

(more info in @kateaggie 's post pandce.proboards.com/thread/553662/police-pasedena-tased-beat-black)


www.nydailynews.com/news/national/bipolar-man-dies-struggle-pasadena-police-witness-article-1.2813383?utm_content=buffer56a9a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw

[alleinesein]

I'm following this online since this happened 2 blocks away from my friend's house.  I am seeing conflicting info online about Alfred Olango, some sites are reporting that he did die but none of the major news sources are reporting that.

www.kusi.com/story/33264128/man-hospitalized-after-officer-involved-shooting-in-el-cajon

EL CAJON (KUSI) — 9:15 p.m. — The man shot by El Cajon police officers has been identified as 30-year-old Alfred Olango, per reports from family members.

7:09 p.m. — Lt. Rob Ransweiler declined to disclose if the man, believed to be about 30 years old, was armed with any type of weapon and would not release further details about the encounter, instead promising a "thorough and complete investigation ... to ensure that what happened here today was appropriate.''

Several witnesses alleged that the officers were unduly quick to open fire and suggested that their actions had been influenced by the fact that they were dealing with a black man, one they described as mentally challenged.

One man angrily told reporters the victim was suffering a seizure prior to the shooting, and another described seeing him with his hands raised at the moment the shots sounded.

Over the late afternoon and early evening, a growing crowd of protesters arrived at the shopping center. Many of them shouted angrily and profanely about what they characterized as a racially motivated police shooting, and others took part in impromptu prayer circles.

Ransweiler said no additional officers had been immediately deployed in case the gathering grew unruly or violent.

5:30 p.m. — Police opened fire on a seemingly irrational man who allegedly failed to comply with their commands at an East County strip mall Tuesday afternoon, sending him to a hospital with injuries of undisclosed severity and prompting accusations that the gunfire was racially motivated.

The unidentified man failed to follow the patrol personnel's "directives,'' leading to a confrontation that ended in gunfire, Lt. Rob Ransweiler told reporters. Bystanders reported hearing about five shots.

Ransweiler declined to disclose if the man was armed with any type of weapon and said he could provide no information on the suspect's condition.

Several witnesses alleged the officers were quick to open fire and suggested that their actions had been influenced by the fact that they were dealing with a black man, one they described as mentally challenged.

Over the late afternoon, a small but vocal gathering came together at the shopping center, some shouting and protesting what they characterized as a racially motivated police shooting.

The lieutenant said no additional officers had been immediately deployed to handle a potentially unruly crowd.

4:45 p.m. — A man was hospitalized Tuesday afternoon after reports of an officer-involved shooting in El Cajon.

According to El Cajon police, at 2:30 p.m. Tuesday afternoon, they responded to a man acting erratically at a shopping center in the 800 block of Broadway.

Police said the subject failed to comply with their orders, which subsequently lead to shots being fired.

The man has been transported to a local hospital with unknown injuries.

[alleinesein]

Sad Update

EL CAJON (KUSI) — 10:00 p.m. — The man involved in the shooting passed away as a result of his injuries, according to El Cajon police.

"The El Cajon Police would like to assure the community that a complete and thorough investigation will be completed. We have already contacted the District Attorney’s Office so that they can conduct their concurrent investigation and their representatives are already on scene," according to a released shared by the El Cajon Police Department.

The two officers involved in the shooting will be on administrative leave at the conclusion of the investigation.

Anyone with information about this incident is encouraged to contact the El Cajon Police Department at [phone]. Individuals with information on this incident who wish to remain anonymous can contact Crime Stoppers tip line at [phone].

[underwaterrhymes]

His sister called fucking 911 because he was fucking having a seizure. I can't fathom her grief. These assholes were supposed to help.

I really think we are an irredeemable species.

[cookiemdough]

"Police said the subject failed to comply with their orders, which subsequently lead to shots being fired."

Failure to comply is not a basis for lethal force. Now the narrative doesn't even include they were in fear of their lives. Just lack of compliance.

[andwhat]

Unfortunately most departments do not train their officers how to deal with mental health consumers. And if they do offer training it is not to everyone on the department.

There is so much conflicting information out right now.

The issues with police and the community are so multi-faceted. It really makes me pessimistic about the likelihood of a positive turnaround.

[lexus]

Sept 28, 2016 6:12:04 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Unfortunately most departments do not train their officers how to deal with mental health consumers. And if they do offer training it is not to everyone on the department.

There is so much conflicting information out right now.

The issues with police and the community are so multi-faceted. It really makes me pessimistic about the likelihood of a positive turnaround.

I agree. I'm local to this particular story and have noticed that the still photo they released from a video matches what the victim's sister said but contradicts another eye witness being interviewed by news teams. Not that non-compliance should result in lethal force. I'm just noticing this case seems complicated. I would love to see the El Cajon police force step back and let another PD take over the investigation.

[andwhat]

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:49 GMT -5 lexus said:

Sept 28, 2016 6:12:04 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Unfortunately most departments do not train their officers how to deal with mental health consumers. And if they do offer training it is not to everyone on the department.

There is so much conflicting information out right now.

The issues with police and the community are so multi-faceted. It really makes me pessimistic about the likelihood of a positive turnaround.

I agree. I'm local to this particular story and have noticed that the still photo they released from a video matches what the victim's sister said but contradicts another eye witness being interviewed by news teams. Not that non-compliance should result in lethal force. I'm just noticing this case seems complicated. I would love to see the El Cajon police force step back and let another PD take over the investigation.

I think this should always be policy. National standards. How can I seriously advocate for that and not just keep saying it here? I think it is really important.

[Deleted]

Sept 28, 2016 6:35:28 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:49 GMT -5 lexus said:

I agree. I'm local to this particular story and have noticed that the still photo they released from a video matches what the victim's sister said but contradicts another eye witness being interviewed by news teams. Not that non-compliance should result in lethal force. I'm just noticing this case seems complicated. I would love to see the El Cajon police force step back and let another PD take over the investigation.

I think this should always be policy. National standards. How can I seriously advocate for that and not just keep saying it here? I think it is really important.

I agree and I would also like to know what we can do.

[vicky]

Thank you, sonrisa, I just sent my email.

[cookiemdough]

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:49 GMT -5 lexus said:

Sept 28, 2016 6:12:04 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Unfortunately most departments do not train their officers how to deal with mental health consumers. And if they do offer training it is not to everyone on the department.

There is so much conflicting information out right now.

The issues with police and the community are so multi-faceted. It really makes me pessimistic about the likelihood of a positive turnaround.

I agree. I'm local to this particular story and have noticed that the still photo they released from a video matches what the victim's sister said but contradicts another eye witness being interviewed by news teams. Not that non-compliance should result in lethal force. I'm just noticing this case seems complicated. I would love to see the El Cajon police force step back and let another PD take over the investigation.

What is complicated? I haven't seen news coverage here yet. Is there more available than the article posted above that I can look at?

[karinothing]

Sept 28, 2016 7:40:24 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:49 GMT -5 lexus said:

I agree. I'm local to this particular story and have noticed that the still photo they released from a video matches what the victim's sister said but contradicts another eye witness being interviewed by news teams. Not that non-compliance should result in lethal force. I'm just noticing this case seems complicated. I would love to see the El Cajon police force step back and let another PD take over the investigation.

What is complicated? I haven't seen news coverage here yet. Is there more available than the article posted above that I can look at?

I believe the picture shows him raising his arms at the police as if he had a gun. If you want to see the picture (police have their guns aimed at him in this picture, he is standing)  cdn2.everyjoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/el-cajon-shooting.jpg  (I see the picture was posted above too)

It is just odd because that one officer is pretty close, so I am not sure how they wouldn't be able to see if he had a gun or not. I mean it kind of looks like he is holding a water bottle? Or something. But his hands don't look like they are holding a gun to me.

It is sad, I really wish there was some other department to be called in a lot of mental health situations. Like the police don't seem the best department to handle this. Maybe EMS or something? I mean how often do mental illness cases actually turn violent towards police or other people?

[andwhat]

Sept 28, 2016 7:40:24 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:49 GMT -5 lexus said:

I agree. I'm local to this particular story and have noticed that the still photo they released from a video matches what the victim's sister said but contradicts another eye witness being interviewed by news teams. Not that non-compliance should result in lethal force. I'm just noticing this case seems complicated. I would love to see the El Cajon police force step back and let another PD take over the investigation.

What is complicated? I haven't seen news coverage here yet. Is there more available than the article posted above that I can look at?

I was trying to listen at work, but there was mention that he was threatening his sister and I could not hear if they mentioned a weapon. I am trying to wait for them to replay that segment, I think it was CNN. The initial call was for a seizure and the article here doesn't mention a mental illness, but I am pretty sure I heard that on the news. Can a person coming out of a seizure get violent?

I do think we are in an environment of some trigger happy cops (the numbers definitely seem greater but maybe they aren't). But I think most officers are not equipped to handled mental health consumers and they don't understand the difficulty in getting a mental health consumer to focus on what YOU are saying and not the crisis they are currently in. But if there were threats and there was a weapon (all of this is unverified) it can be a chaotic situation.

[cbwm1]

Sept 28, 2016 8:03:23 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Sept 28, 2016 7:40:24 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

What is complicated? I haven't seen news coverage here yet. Is there more available than the article posted above that I can look at?

I was trying to listen at work, but there was mention that he was threatening his sister and I could not hear if they mentioned a weapon. I am trying to wait for them to replay that segment, I think it was CNN. The initial call was for a seizure and the article here doesn't mention a mental illness, but I am pretty sure I heard that on the news. Can a person coming out of a seizure get violent?

I do think we are in an environment of some trigger happy cops (the numbers definitely seem greater but maybe they aren't). But I think most officers are not equipped to handled mental health consumers and they don't understand the difficulty in getting a mental health consumer to focus on what YOU are saying and not the crisis they are currently in. But if there were threats and there was a weapon (all of this is unverified) it can be a chaotic situation.

When people come out of seizures, they're often confused, disoriented, and have no clue what's going on or recollection of what happened.

While my MIL doesn't get violent after she has a seizure, my assumption is that it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

Not to mention the fact that if he is mentally disabled as reported, that could definitely compound his mental state after a seizure.

[mrhanky]

If he had a seizure he very well could have been in a postictal phase still, where you are disoriented and can display erratic behavior. You'd also be unlikely to be able to comprehend/nonetheless follow commands in this state.

[lexus]

Sept 28, 2016 7:40:24 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Sept 28, 2016 6:32:49 GMT -5 lexus said:

I agree. I'm local to this particular story and have noticed that the still photo they released from a video matches what the victim's sister said but contradicts another eye witness being interviewed by news teams. Not that non-compliance should result in lethal force. I'm just noticing this case seems complicated. I would love to see the El Cajon police force step back and let another PD take over the investigation.

What is complicated? I haven't seen news coverage here yet. Is there more available than the article posted above that I can look at?

Let me see what I can find online. I've been watching tv coverage. Last night there were conflicting accounts of whether or not he was complying. He had been in the street dodging cars when his sister called. You can hear her on some of the initial coverage saying "I told you he's mentally sick". Obviously, lethal force (and five shots) were not necessary. One of the responding officers was using his taser and the other shot him. Apparently they were responding to him reaching into his pocket and taking a "shooting stance". This webpage currently has a picture of that exchange at the top. www.nbcsandiego.com

[andwhat]

Sept 28, 2016 8:11:36 GMT -5 lexus said:

Sept 28, 2016 7:40:24 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

What is complicated? I haven't seen news coverage here yet. Is there more available than the article posted above that I can look at?

Let me see what I can find online. I've been watching tv coverage. Last night there were conflicting accounts of whether or not he was complying. He had been in the street dodging cars when his sister called. You can hear her on some of the initial coverage saying "I told you he's mentally sick". Obviously, lethal force (and five shots) were not necessary. One of the responding officers was using his taser and the other shot him. Apparently they were responding to him reaching into his pocket and taking a "shooting stance". This webpage currently has a picture of that exchange at the top. www.nbcsandiego.com

How can you make that determination when you don't know what was going on and there are conflicting statements?

[nikki25]

When the fuck will they learn that can cannot shoot people when they don't follow their commands. Unfortunately, if this man is MH/MR this situation happens far more then they should. Police need to be trained on how to handle situations involving mh/mr individuals.

Fucking unbelievable.

[tiramisu]

sonrisa thank you for that link. I'll take a look at it. I hadn't seen this story yet.

That one still from the video doesn't look good, but regardless how the fuck does a call to help someone with a seizure become this? El Cajon definitely has a reputation, along with other parts of east San Diego county, for having a lot of people living there who are racist. I'm sure that plays into this.

There is a team in San Diego county that can be sent out, called PERT, if there is a clinician available. Law enforcement always comes out with them and sometimes only police when the PERT clinicians are not available (plus EMS for hospital transport when needed). I don't know if they'll send PERT, or officers who've had special training, even if people don't request PERT. This is why we teach the families we work with to request PERT and tell 911 it's a psychiatric emergency. But I'd be lying if I said I don't worry about this every time one of our children of color has police involvement, even for transport to the psychiatric hospital.

[nikki25]

Sept 28, 2016 8:01:29 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Sept 28, 2016 7:40:24 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

What is complicated? I haven't seen news coverage here yet. Is there more available than the article posted above that I can look at?

I believe the picture shows him raising his arms at the police as if he had a gun. If you want to see the picture (police have their guns aimed at him in this picture, he is standing)  cdn2.everyjoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/el-cajon-shooting.jpg  (I see the picture was posted above too)

It is just odd because that one officer is pretty close, so I am not sure how they wouldn't be able to see if he had a gun or not. I mean it kind of looks like he is holding a water bottle? Or something. But his hands don't look like they are holding a gun to me.

It is sad, I really wish there was some other department to be called in a lot of mental health situations. Like the police don't seem the best department to handle this. Maybe EMS or something? I mean how often do mental illness cases actually turn violent towards police or other people?

Wtf? The cop was a foot or two away from the guy. Clearly he would have been able to see if he had a weapon and was close enough to wrestle to the ground. Cops are supposed to be trained for this shit. Again, fucking unbelievable.

[karinothing]

Sept 28, 2016 8:27:34 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

Sept 28, 2016 8:01:29 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I believe the picture shows him raising his arms at the police as if he had a gun. If you want to see the picture (police have their guns aimed at him in this picture, he is standing)  cdn2.everyjoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/el-cajon-shooting.jpg  (I see the picture was posted above too)

It is just odd because that one officer is pretty close, so I am not sure how they wouldn't be able to see if he had a gun or not. I mean it kind of looks like he is holding a water bottle? Or something. But his hands don't look like they are holding a gun to me.

It is sad, I really wish there was some other department to be called in a lot of mental health situations. Like the police don't seem the best department to handle this. Maybe EMS or something? I mean how often do mental illness cases actually turn violent towards police or other people?

Wtf? The cop was a foot or two away from the guy. Clearly he would have been able to see if he had a weapon and was close enough to wrestle to the ground. Cops are supposed to be trained for this shit. Again, fucking unbelievable.

Well someone above said one cop used a Taser (or tried to) and one the gun. So maybe the close one was with the Taser? I don't know

[andwhat]

Sept 28, 2016 8:27:34 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

Sept 28, 2016 8:01:29 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I believe the picture shows him raising his arms at the police as if he had a gun. If you want to see the picture (police have their guns aimed at him in this picture, he is standing)  cdn2.everyjoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/el-cajon-shooting.jpg  (I see the picture was posted above too)

It is just odd because that one officer is pretty close, so I am not sure how they wouldn't be able to see if he had a gun or not. I mean it kind of looks like he is holding a water bottle? Or something. But his hands don't look like they are holding a gun to me.

It is sad, I really wish there was some other department to be called in a lot of mental health situations. Like the police don't seem the best department to handle this. Maybe EMS or something? I mean how often do mental illness cases actually turn violent towards police or other people?

Wtf? The cop was a foot or two away from the guy. Clearly he would have been able to see if he had a weapon and was close enough to wrestle to the ground. Cops are supposed to be trained for this shit. Again, fucking unbelievable.

What??? So if a person has a weapon you are supposed to get closer to them and wrestle them to the ground? Yeah, no preservation of life. I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense. Cops are trained to protect the lives of themselves and those around them. Not sacrifice themselves. Now maybe you and others think that cops should do that, but that is definitely not what they are trained to do.

[andwhat]

Sept 28, 2016 8:31:22 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Sept 28, 2016 8:27:34 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

Wtf? The cop was a foot or two away from the guy. Clearly he would have been able to see if he had a weapon and was close enough to wrestle to the ground. Cops are supposed to be trained for this shit. Again, fucking unbelievable.

Well someone above said one cop used a Taser (or tried to) and one the gun. So maybe the close one was with the Taser? I don't know

Well tasers are a one time thing. If it doesn't work you can't just use it again until it does. Or if it missed them you can't just use it again.

I was listening to NPR (I think) the other day and there was a retired officer on there. He was saying that in his day it was more acceptable for officers to get injured in the line of duty. So getting in fights, getting stabbed, cut, etc. was more common. But you also had more cops fatally injured. Then there was a shift in training to handle situations from a greater distance to keep officers alive. So now there is more reliance on weapons that can be used from a greater distance from the threat and that is why many officers are more prone to use their gun as opposed to other weapons available. No one wants to get in close because your life is at greater risk. Not saying it is right, but it does make sense as to why the training changed over the years.

[lexus]

Sept 28, 2016 8:20:54 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Sept 28, 2016 8:11:36 GMT -5 lexus said:

Let me see what I can find online. I've been watching tv coverage. Last night there were conflicting accounts of whether or not he was complying. He had been in the street dodging cars when his sister called. You can hear her on some of the initial coverage saying "I told you he's mentally sick". Obviously, lethal force (and five shots) were not necessary. One of the responding officers was using his taser and the other shot him. Apparently they were responding to him reaching into his pocket and taking a "shooting stance". This webpage currently has a picture of that exchange at the top. www.nbcsandiego.com

How can you make that determination when you don't know what was going on and there are conflicting statements?

I was just telling you what they were reporting since I hadn't read anything and had been watching on TV. You asked what was so complex.

[was5]

Sept 28, 2016 8:39:52 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Sept 28, 2016 8:31:22 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Well someone above said one cop used a Taser (or tried to) and one the gun. So maybe the close one was with the Taser? I don't know

Well tasers are a one time thing. If it doesn't work you can't just use it again until it does. Or if it missed them you can't just use it again.

I was listening to NPR (I think) the other day and there was a retired officer on there. He was saying that in his day it was more acceptable for officers to get injured in the line of duty. So getting in fights, getting stabbed, cut, etc. was more common. But you also had more cops fatally injured. Then there was a shift in training to handle situations from a greater distance to keep officers alive. So now there is more reliance on weapons that can be used from a greater distance from the threat and that is why many officers are more prone to use their gun as opposed to other weapons available. No one wants to get in close because your life is at greater risk. Not saying it is right, but it does make sense as to why the training changed over the years.

That is really interesting. I wondered why police officers seem so quick to shoot now. I'm sure there were police involved shootings in the past we didn't hear about, but the change in training really does seem to be connected to the increase in shootings by police officers.

I was listening to Fresh Air on NPR a few months ago. The guest was a former police officer who wrote a book about his experience in the NYPD as both a patrol officer and a detective (I think). He talked about all the times he intervened in situations and never had to use force. He did everything he could to avoid using his weapon. If I remember correctly, he never shot anyone. I wondered why his experience seemed different than what is going on today. I guess this helps to explain it.

[karinothing]

Sept 28, 2016 8:39:52 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Sept 28, 2016 8:31:22 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Well someone above said one cop used a Taser (or tried to) and one the gun. So maybe the close one was with the Taser? I don't know

Well tasers are a one time thing. If it doesn't work you can't just use it again until it does. Or if it missed them you can't just use it again.

I was listening to NPR (I think) the other day and there was a retired officer on there. He was saying that in his day it was more acceptable for officers to get injured in the line of duty. So getting in fights, getting stabbed, cut, etc. was more common. But you also had more cops fatally injured. Then there was a shift in training to handle situations from a greater distance to keep officers alive. So now there is more reliance on weapons that can be used from a greater distance from the threat and that is why many officers are more prone to use their gun as opposed to other weapons available. No one wants to get in close because your life is at greater risk. Not saying it is right, but it does make sense as to why the training changed over the years.

Interesting. I wonder about situations like this, would it have been feasible to clear the area and just sort of wait things out? Obviously if it is in a crowded area it would be impossible, but certainly there are situations where backing off and waiting things out a bit might have less violent outcomes?

[nikki25]

Sept 28, 2016 8:34:29 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Sept 28, 2016 8:27:34 GMT -5 nikki25 said:

Wtf? The cop was a foot or two away from the guy. Clearly he would have been able to see if he had a weapon and was close enough to wrestle to the ground. Cops are supposed to be trained for this shit. Again, fucking unbelievable.

What??? So if a person has a weapon you are supposed to get closer to them and wrestle them to the ground? Yeah, no preservation of life. I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense. Cops are trained to protect the lives of themselves and those around them. Not sacrifice themselves. Now maybe you and others think that cops should do that, but that is definitely not what they are trained to do.

What? He was already standing next to him. He would have seen a gun in his hand and probably in his pocket. They are trained to handle these situations by not killing the person. It is their job, their job involves dealing with dangerous people.They don't like it then quit.

[andwhat]

was5 and karinothing I hate to bash younger generations but I think part of the problem is the generation. We tell kids not to scrap it out on the playground. Most have never thrown or taken a punch. So of course as an adult they are not going to volunteer to be there. When you look at retired officers like the one was5 described, he was probably used to fighting and not afraid of a fist. Add in karinothing's idea of just being patient and waiting it out or getting better trained resources. Well everything now is about instant gratification. And the anger when something can be handled immediately just grows and grows. So basically it is kids these days. But it is costing people their lives. And how do you change that? And quickly?

[karinothing]

have police shootings like this really increased or is the news just on notice?

[noeliav]

Sept 28, 2016 9:49:20 GMT -5 karinothing said:

have police shootings like this really increased or is the news just on notice?

I think a little of both, but mostly it's being talked about more (in media, both news and social).

There's a chart showing the disproportionate shootings by LEO (white victims vs black victims) over time, but I cannot put my hands on it presently.