UPDATED with new Q:Should my name be on this deed?

[thegooser]

My husband bought a rental property as an investment when we were dating. I was at the closing, but none of my money went into the initial purchase, closing costs, fixing it up, etc. My name is not on deed, mortgage, anything. He owned the home for 8 months before we got married.

Since we got married I created a rental e-fund, and I make sure it doesn't dip below a certain amount. I make sure the mortgage is covered and move money around every month once the rent gets deposited. DH consults with me before making decisions regarding any repairs, even small ones, and we come to a joint decision.

The property breaks even for the most part. We make a small monthly profit which gets rolled into repairs. We anticipate that as rent prices continue to rise we will make more profit over the years, plus someday the mortgage will be paid. This is not expected to happen for 25 years or so.

DH stopped working last year and is going back to school. He won't graduate for another 2-3 years. I am supporting us entirely and it's my money if something goes wrong with the property in the meantime.

Since my money didn't go into the initial investment (15k or so), I feel on the one hand that it's his asset and I should be able to share in the reward only if we stay together. Meaning in the event of a divorce I'd give it back to him... I think.

On the other hand, I feel like I'm along for the ride and I do a lot with the rental at this point. I'm on the hook for the repairs if something big happens, and all rental expenses come out of joint money from now on.

I talked to DH last night and he said he would put me on the deed, but I heard hesitation in his voice.

So, is the rental his because he payed for startup? Or ours because joint funds are sustaining the venture?

Discuss.

ETA: Please do not take state law into account. We do not know where we will reside long-term, and we plan to move around a lot before we settle down.

UPDATED QUESTION: When, other than in the event of a divorce, would it matter if my name was on the deed?

[zacksbride]

Joint. If you are contributing financially to his investment while he's in school, I feel I would want my name on the deed

[Deleted]

Your state law addresses this question, and depending on the laws of your state, a property held in one person's name and purchased prior to the marriage can become marital property and subject to division in a divorce.

My entirely non-legal opinion based solely on what I think is fair is that if marital money is going towards upkeep and paying down the mortgage, and your own efforts are being made to manage the property, that you should be entitled to some portion of that property.

[thedutchgirl]

Joint.

[makemineadouble]

So he's OK with you supporting him (paying his half of all expenses for 2-3 years) but he doesn't want your name on the deed? I would think that the 15K or so that he had wrapped up in this asset will quickly be off-set by you paying his way for the next few years.

Also, if he considers it "his" then he should be using his money to pay for it and should be paying you for the time you put into it.

Do you consider him a taker in general, or is this post just making him sound bad?

[Deleted]

Sept 8, 2012 11:39:34 GMT -5 makemineadouble said:

So he's OK with you supporting him (paying his half of all expenses for 2-3 years) but he doesn't want your name on the deed? I would think that the 15K or so that he had wrapped up in this asset will quickly be off-set by you paying his way for the next few years.

Also, if he considers it "his" then he should be using his money to pay for it and should be paying you for the time you put into it.

Do you consider him a taker in general, or is this post just making him sound bad?

Wow. That's not at all what she said. She said he agreed to add her to the deed but she heard hesitation in his voice. Maybe the question took him by surprise. Maybe he just wanted to think before he answered. Maybe a lot of things.

OP I think it's a joint asset at this point. But we don't keep anything separate so take my opinion from that viewpoint.

[thegooser]

Sept 8, 2012 11:39:34 GMT -5 makemineadouble said:

So he's OK with you supporting him (paying his half of all expenses for 2-3 years) but he doesn't want your name on the deed? I would think that the 15K or so that he had wrapped up in this asset will quickly be off-set by you paying his way for the next few years.

Also, if he considers it "his" then he should be using his money to pay for it and should be paying you for the time you put into it.

Do you consider him a taker in general, or is this post just making him sound bad?

He said yes right away without asking any real follow-up questions. I did hear hesitation, but to be honest it was after midnight on the phone and he was tired. So that could have been me reading into things. I mostly wanted to know if I SHOULD be on the deed. Since it was his idea, his startup money, and he came into the marriage with it.

[thedutchgirl]

Death. The property will avoid probate.

[makemineadouble]

Sept 8, 2012 11:48:01 GMT -5 thegooser said:

Sept 8, 2012 11:39:34 GMT -5 makemineadouble said:

So he's OK with you supporting him (paying his half of all expenses for 2-3 years) but he doesn't want your name on the deed? I would think that the 15K or so that he had wrapped up in this asset will quickly be off-set by you paying his way for the next few years.

Also, if he considers it "his" then he should be using his money to pay for it and should be paying you for the time you put into it.

Do you consider him a taker in general, or is this post just making him sound bad?

He said yes right away without asking any real follow-up questions. I did hear hesitation, but to be honest it was after midnight on the phone and he was tired. So that could have been me reading into things. I mostly wanted to know if I SHOULD be on the deed. Since it was his idea, his startup money, and he came into the marriage with it.

That makes sense. I hope he follows up and gets you on the deed right away. If you asked me about something like that after midnight, I probably wouldn't say much either. I need to be awake and in the right frame of mind to discuss household finances.

[thegooser]

Sept 8, 2012 12:33:28 GMT -5 makemineadouble said:

Sept 8, 2012 11:48:01 GMT -5 thegooser said:

He said yes right away without asking any real follow-up questions. I did hear hesitation, but to be honest it was after midnight on the phone and he was tired. So that could have been me reading into things. I mostly wanted to know if I SHOULD be on the deed. Since it was his idea, his startup money, and he came into the marriage with it.

That makes sense. I hope he follows up and gets you on the deed right away. If you asked me about something like that after midnight, I probably wouldn't say much either. I need to be awake and in the right frame of mind to discuss household finances.

I know. I'm horribly impulsive. Probably should have done it in person, too.

[chance22010]

I truly believe in a marriage everything needs to be completely shared. I've been part of break ups with two very long term relationships (not marriages thankfully) and it was a little too easy for me to start socking MY money away to leave the relationship. Things are completely different with my Dh and I. Everything is completely out in the open, all our accounts are shared. I make more but he carries our amazing insurance. I hate to put it this way but we need each other- in the most positive sense. I respect what he brings and vice versa. I brought properties into my marriage but they became our properties (for better and worse- mostly worse with floods, and other huge things going wrong- that Dh fixed I'll add.) That being said, yes you should be added no questions or hesitations

[pamela]

In my marriage, absolutely joint. But that's how we do everything. We also consider inheritance (HA!) from either side joint.

[MixedBerryJam]

UPDATED QUESTION: When, other than in the event of a divorce, would it matter if my name was on the deed? [/quote]

(Remember, this is coming from a widow, so that always colors all my responses) What would happen to the house if he died? Is it listed in his will? Would your financial life be impacted if the house went to his mom, or an xgf? (I don't recall the circumstances of when he bought it except that he bought it before you were married.)

I do not know the tax implications of "inheriting" non-marital assets from a deceased spouse, but at the very least I'd want to ask a lawyer this question. Ddh and I owned everything jointly and were each others beneficiary on any solely-own assets, (eg, insurance, ira's) After he died I spent exactly 5 minutes in the probate office taking his name off deeds; other than that I signed not one single piece of paper, I don't think.

[orangeblossom]

This is a good questions.

DH has a house before we got married. My name is not on the deed, and hadn't planned on putting it on there. This post does give me pause to think about it.

We keep our money fairly separate though. However, we need to update some aspects of that though.

[thegooser]

In the event of his death, I don't want the house to sit in probate with me unable to manage it. We plan to have this house for upwards of 30 years, and maybe until we die. DH is 7 years my senior, so it seems likely that this situation will come up at some point in my life span. It wouldn't impact my financial life per se, but it would be a pity to lose the house or something because I didn't have access to manage it while everything is sorted out.

In case of divorce, I'd probably give it back to him. Unless we had one of those terrible divorces that bring out the worst in everyone.

[josieposy]

Broken record response: It really depends on the state. In many states it takes one to buy and two to sell. You may have to sign out of title anyway if the place is ever sold, depending on the state law, whether your name is on the deed or not. I would consult an attorney.

ETA: I do title analysis for my job. The state you reside in doesn't matter nearly as much as the state the property lies in.

[LoveTrains]

I just want to add that it doesn't really matter what state you live in - it matters what state the rental property is in. You need to make sure you understand the rules for marital assets in that state, even if you move. Because for real estate, the law of the state the the property is in is usually the one that matters.

[thegooser]

Oh man, I wish I hadn't looked it up. Property owned before the marriage is considered separate property.

Whyyy do I feel guilty asking for this? For some reason it feels money-grubbing.

[kershnic]

I would want to be added to the deed. We treat everything in our marriage jointly. If he's nervous about you honoring your verbal word that you'd give it back in case of divorce you could discuss the post-nup. But I would guess that in the grand scheme of things the 15k he put in at the beginning is overshadowed by all of the time you're putting in to managing it and the support you're giving him while he's in school.

[orangeblossom]

Sept 8, 2012 20:00:33 GMT -5 Catlawdy said:

We added my name to the deed of our old house (as "tenants by the entirety") after the wedding bc that way, in my state, I would get it automatically if he died w/o it being subject to debts of the estate (it would still have the mortgage on it). I had no desire to go through probate or possibly own a house with his parents if he died first.

Anyone that has these issues should talk to an estate attorney licensed in their state.

Our stuff is set up so that DH won't have to open an estate on me at all if I die first, and I'd just have to go to the probate office and pay $8 for what's called a widow's year allowance to transfer his car to my name I'd he dies first. Probate doesn't have to be complicated if you plan right but it's the things like you're dealing with, who is going to be on a deed, that really impact how simple or complex the process is.

This is good to know, as our property is where you're located. We need to update the title to our house anyway, as it still has my maiden name. We'll ask about updating it to "tenants in entirety" for the house he had before we got engaged.