like it's some form of fucking outrage entertainment? Is this the fucking middle ages or french revolution?
Leave the victims and their family some sort of privacy and dignity. If you, GBCN poster, can't form an opinion without watching a murder with your own special precious eyes, at least leave it to a link.
Those videos are creating awareness of a systemic racial problem in this country that many of us did not "see" before. I personally watch them because I feel I owe it to the victims to understand what they went through and it feels like sticking my head in the sand to just ignore it. I see no reason why they shouldn't be posted here. People aren't being forced to watch them here.
Those videos are creating awareness of a systemic racial problem in this country that many of us did not "see" before. I personally watch them because I feel I owe it to the victims to understand what they went through and it feels like sticking my head in the sand to just ignore it. I see no reason why they shouldn't be posted here. People aren't being forced to watch them here.
Did you need to see a video to hate Brock? THEN WHY DO YOU NEED TO SEE A CHILD MURDERED? What is so crucial for your understanding that it's worth violating whatever shred of dignity and privacy that person has left after being murdered in cold blood by their government? In this case, A CHILD miurdered by his government?
We wouldn't say this if it were the video of a rape. If you need to see it yourself to get outraged or get educated, that is on you.
So I shouldn't have watched the video that Philando Castile's girlfriend intentionally live streamed so that people would see the injustice of the murder of her partner?
That is pretty upsetting. It is yet another piece of information that sheds more light on what POC in this country have been going through for generations. Some of what I have seen has haunted me.
Did you need to see a video to hate Brock? THEN WHY DO YOU NEED TO SEE A CHILD MURDERED? What is so crucial for your understanding that it's worth violating whatever shred of dignity and privacy that person has left after being murdered in cold bold by their government? In this case, A CHILD miurdered by his government?
You are taking a strange stance here. No one is being held down and forced to watch anything. I don't watch all of the videos, but I still think sometimes it makes it more real, especially for us who aren't having to fear for the same treatment daily. Raw film leaves much more of an impact than a typed story.
The VICTIM doesn't get a choice in this. It's their life and death being repeated and exploited here. I don't care if some posters need to see raw footage of a child's death to get their outrage right. That's their fucking problem.
Again, would you say the same thing if we were talking about videos of rapes?
You are taking a strange stance here. No one is being held down and forced to watch anything. I don't watch all of the videos, but I still think sometimes it makes it more real, especially for us who aren't having to fear for the same treatment daily. Raw film leaves much more of an impact than a typed story.
The VICTIM doesn't get a choice in this. It's their life and death being repeated and exploited here. I don't care if some poster needs to see raw footage of a child's death to get their outrage right. That's their fucking problem.
Again, would you say the same thing if we were talking about videos of rapes?
In some cases, the victim's families are asking for tapes to be released to the public. Philando Castile's girlfriend clearly meant for her video to be seen. Obviously, the victim can't speak to that, but their families are making a choice that they hope will make others see what they are seeing.
I understand your point. I don't watch these videos lightly or for kicks. Maybe I missed it, but I did not see the child in the video you're referencing. The body camera of the officer who the video was taken from never got near the car.
We wouldn't say this if it were the video of a rape. If you need to see it yourself to get outraged or get educated, that is on you.
As a non POC, I completely agree. I stopped watching the videos last year, or at least months ago , I don't need to watch black men die without justification, and I certainly don't want to add to the trauma that POC go through when seeing them. It's in humane and we need to stop watching the murder of innocents.
I do do read the articles because I want the facts, and I need to know what is happening, but the images have gotten to the point that I'm glad people with power are confronted with them, but I feel like watching them myself had dipped into something gratuitous. That may be privilege on my part and I,m willing to confront that if I need to be watching them.
I don't always watch the videos, the descriptions are more than enough. It is traumatic to watch and discuss these events but it's more traumatic for the people experiencing it first hand. Like isabel , I see it as part of my responsibility to bear witness, though I don't think that necessarily means always watching the videos. But these incidents can't and shouldn't be ignored. In the end though, people are free to click through at their own discretion or pass by the conversations entirely. No one can or should force participation.
Eta: who is being forced to watch the videos unwillingly? I won't watch the latest posted video, I don't need to watch to be properly horrified but the footage does exist, should people not mention that part? I'm confused.
The VICTIM doesn't get a choice in this. It's their life and death being repeated and exploited here. I don't care if some poster needs to see raw footage of a child's death to get their outrage right. That's their fucking problem.
Again, would you say the same thing if we were talking about videos of rapes?
In some cases, the victim's families are asking for tapes to be released to the public. Philando Castile's girlfriend clearly meant for her video to be seen. Obviously, the victim can't speak to that, but their families are making a choice that they hope will make others see what they are seeing.
I understand your point. I don't watch these videos lightly or for kicks. Maybe I missed it, but I did not see the child in the video you're referencing. The body camera of the officer who the video was taken from never got near the car.
But on this very multicultural platform, couldn't we find a way to mention a video, and even some search terms with some facts, without linking or embedding the video. Just out of respect for the people who say it causes problems, and even PTSD to be confronted with the images, so that we, as adults can decide want kind of information is best for us personally to seek out?
I agree that violent videos or pictures should not be embedded in a post.
Ahhh now I am finally getting the riff. I didn't open that other post.
I don't watch videos. But I am relying on someone, media or whoever, to watch it and report.
Yeah I originally missed that the op of the post that spawned this discussion included an embedded video (or at least that's what I'm gathering, though it has been edited out since then).
From a trauma standpoint, they're horrendous. From a prevention standpoint, they are thus far not stopping the tide of violence. I can only hope that changes. I cannot see any reason for them to be posted here (or anywhere else).
But I can see why people are ambivalent (positive?) about their existence. It is good that these videos are available from a truth seeking perspective. No longer can someone who was videoed lie without the rest of us knowing. Note I don't say "justice" perspective since all too often the guilty go unpunished. I hope one day justice gets itself aligned with truth.
We wouldn't say this if it were the video of a rape. If you need to see it yourself to get outraged or get educated, that is on you.
So I shouldn't have watched the video that Philando Castile's girlfriend intentionally live streamed so that people would see the injustice of the murder of her partner?
I'm pretty sure it's not the watching it personally that is the problem, but the sharing to a large diverse group who then have to process their feelings (again, because this surely isn't the first time they have been confronted with this.)
im certainly not saying we shouldn't be addressing theses topics on board, but maybe we, speaking from a white person's perspective, should allow others closer to the trauma dictate when,where, how, and why videos are posted here.
You may all decide I'm completely wrong and off base, but this is what I've been pondering the past couple of weeks.
I get both sides of the conversation and really don't want to debate by my feels are, for all of the horrors thrusted in our face so gratuitously by the media, something does come out of it. Movement starts. Change starts. If all of these killings had not been caught on tape, would we know? Would the country know of all these injustices? Probably not. I think it is more injust for these lives to be taken from them and no one even knowing their name; their sacrifice, their lives bring changes and help people all over the country and world stand up in their name to have this never happen again. That is justice.
As an aside- I see horrible, horrible things pretty daily so unfortunately I am kind of numb but understand other people's feelings that these videos should not be posted or seen.
I also think it is difficult for people to understand the importance of these videos outside of the criminal justice system. These videos DO bring changes...I can assure you that. I can also assure you if there were no videos, nothing to pin their asses down, nothing would change.
From a trauma standpoint, they're horrendous. From a prevention standpoint, they are thus far not stopping the tide of violence. I can only hope that changes. I cannot see any reason for them to be posted here (or anywhere else).
But I can see why people are ambivalent (positive?) about their existence. It is good that these videos are available from a truth seeking perspective. No longer can someone who was videoed lie without the rest of us knowing. Note I don't say "justice" perspective since all too often the guilty go unpunished. I hope one day justice gets itself aligned with truth.
I'm not ambivalent about their existence. If you are watching something horrific happen in person I think you should absolutely should record it so the truth can be known. Having evidence of the horror is very important.
Reporters should watch them so they can report on them and get the word out. Law enforcement looking to investigate should see them. Prosecutors should see them. Juries should watch them. Family members should have the option to watch them - as hard as that might be - because they deserve to see the truth of what happened to their loved one if they so choose. Those whose community is personally affected. But John Q public? Who may turn around and victim blame as has happened so many times lately? No. John Q public doesn't personally need to see every murder video that gets made.
And that is where I may share your ambivalence. There might be an appropriate place for such videos to be publicly available because we can't always trust the gate keepers. But it doesn't have to be splashed over every TV news broadcast*. And it doesn't need to be a video embedded into a GBCN post.
(* in here I'm not arguing for discretion on TV. That is a separate issue.)
Honestly I think it is because of phone videos, cop cams and the like that poc are finally being heard and believed. It is sad that America only started paying attention to these murders once there was video evidence.
I find it hard to believe these unjustices just started in the past few years. It is only now poc finally have proof of the horrendous actions of leo that they are being heard. Bring on the videos. Fuck the scum that hid behind their badge. They can't hide anymore
Post by underwaterrhymes on Sept 29, 2016 18:56:33 GMT -5
I think the videos are important. They are shining a light on police brutality.
But although I think they are necessary, I can't watch them.
I rely on the words of those I trust and reliable sources to tell me what I need to know. I already know black men, women, and children are violated every single day at the hands of law enforcement and that racism is endemic and systemic. I already know systemic change is necessary. But I can't bring myself to watch the videos.
They may be necessary for proof for indictment or prosecution, but they aren't for me to already know what a deeply racist and fucked up society we live in.
I also think it is difficult for people to understand the importance of these videos outside of the criminal justice system. These videos DO bring changes...I can assure you that. I can also assure you if there were no videos, nothing to pin their asses down, nothing would change.
Police killed more than 100 unarmed black men in 2015. What the fuck has changed from Diallo to Crutcher?
Who said the change would be immediate? This is the fucking criminal justice system for christ sake, but, on a smaller scale more immediate.
You better believe that police department is under a lot of fucking heat. They will initiate changes, more bad cops be will be fired, more training, more working with local organizations. You may not see it on a grand scale but I have absolutely seen the changes in the aftermath.
These killings will never end fully, but, we can lessen it as much as possible and hold the cop and department accountable- that is something.
I have seen kids who were shot by police. This isn't about being a delicate flower. or stopping the videos being made, or stopping accountability, or stopping the conversation. We should be able to talk about horrors on this board without personally witnessing them. And even if you personally need to go watch the video, this isn't the place to post it.
From a trauma standpoint, they're horrendous. From a prevention standpoint, they are thus far not stopping the tide of violence. I can only hope that changes. I cannot see any reason for them to be posted here (or anywhere else).
But I can see why people are ambivalent (positive?) about their existence. It is good that these videos are available from a truth seeking perspective. No longer can someone who was videoed lie without the rest of us knowing. Note I don't say "justice" perspective since all too often the guilty go unpunished. I hope one day justice gets itself aligned with truth.
I'm not ambivalent about their existence. If you are watching something horrific happen in person I think you should absolutely should record it so the truth can be known. Having evidence of the horror is very important.
Reporters should watch them so they can report on them and get the word out. Law enforcement looking to investigate should see them. Prosecutors should see them. Juries should watch them. Family members should have the option to watch them - as hard as that might be - because they deserve to see the truth of what happened to their loved one if they so choose. Those whose community is personally affected. But John Q public? Who may turn around and victim blame as has happened so many times lately? No. John Q public doesn't personally need to see every murder video that gets made.
And that is where I may share your ambivalence. There might be an appropriate place for such videos to be publicly available because we can't always trust the gate keepers. But it doesn't have to be splashed over every TV news broadcast*. And it doesn't need to be a video embedded into a GBCN post.
(* in here I'm not arguing for discretion on TV. That is a separate issue.)
I don't think you realize how important producing these videos are to getting justice. The heat these cops, Da's, judges and others get from the public after these filmed events don't go unnoticed or unheard. I have seen many cases fall by the wayside but you get the public involved, the media involved everyone wants to look like the good guy for justice and shit magically starts moving.
It is a fact. A fucked up fact, but a fact, nonetheless; that these videos play an important part in change.
I am all for videos not being embedded here. I don't think we need to force them on the posters who frequent these boards. That said, I see no issues with posting stories and links here. People process things in different ways. Maybe watching the video is too much for some. Maybe reading the article enough. But who's to say that reading the article isn't also a violation of the victim in some way? Maybe reading a headline should be enough. Hell, maybe I should just be present and aware enough that really awful things happen to POC in this country on a daily basis and that knowledge alone should be enough to fuel my outrage. I'm not suggesting watching the videos is right or wrong. All I'm saying is that I understand why people watch them. If it provides clarity, understanding, outrage, passion for bringing change, etc. then I can appreciate why people choose to view them.
Again, that doesn't mean they have to be embedded here. Perhaps we should all be more careful and conscious of that. We use trigger warnings for a lot of things. It's easy enough to add a trigger to posts that contain embedded video/photos.
I have seen kids who were shot by police. This isn't about being a delicate flower. or stopping the videos being made, or stopping accountability, or stopping the conversation. We should be able to talk about horrors on this board without personally witnessing them. And even if you personally need to go watch the video, this isn't the place to post it.
I disagree. I think these videos are important. I think it is just as easy for someone to not open the link.
I have seen kids who were shot by police. This isn't about being a delicate flower. or stopping the videos being made, or stopping accountability, or stopping the conversation. We should be able to talk about horrors on this board without personally witnessing them. And even if you personally need to go watch the video, this isn't the place to post it.
I disagree. I think these videos are important. I think it is just as easy for someone to not open the link.