I don't really have any advice because I suck at relationships. Basically now I take care of things FOR ME even though it's something I'd preferred to have him do. Not everything can be my hill to die on. I will say that my H **has** gotten better about taking care of things around the house, but it's been a long time in the making.
I do mostly everything. But I like it that way. I am a control freak, and I created our system. He does do what I ask him to (sometimes I need to ask more than once, which is grating, but he will do it). BUT, while we both work full time, my office is exceptionally flexible AND close to home while his is still flexible enough but his commute is 1+ hour each way and he relies on train/subway schedules. So I have more time.
But his routine things are making the coffee in the morning, bringing out the trash, bringing in all of the groceries (he enlists kids for this), making half of the grocery list (he never does an adequate job so I always also have a list but I'm not willing to let him wiggle free from this lest I hear did you pick up x, or did you forget to get y), loading the dishwasher each night, cleaning up after dinner, and doing the kids' teeth each morning and night (now its mostly supervising to make sure its been done at all). He will also usually pick up the dry cleaning. On weekends he likes to cook, and will let me sleep in typically. He also coaches our two little ones' little league teams so he handles all practices for them.
I know I handle way more, but he knows it too. He's good at showing appreciation, and it works for us right now.
1- do you really just talk or do you express your frustration? Because maybe he needs to 'feel' a little more of how upset you are. How clear do you make it to him that you feel you do SO much more than he does and you have no time to yourself and you're just "done"?
2- you say you both promise to do more to help each other. With this:
2a) If you're the one feeling totally overwhelmed, what is going on in these talks that YOU'RE walking away promising to do more for HIM?
2b) Is anything specific laid out? Promising to "do more" is pretty generic. Are you actually telling him "I need you to take the trash out", "I need you to clean ALL the dishes"?
Post by hopecounts on Oct 13, 2016 13:21:25 GMT -5
You are completely justified in your anger. I SAH so I do 95% of the house upkeep (DH deals with the trash and unloading the dishwasher) DH is very much 50-50 parenting when he is home but that's for basically an hour before she goes to bed and Sat/Sun Given your husband's schedule I wonder if he has good intentions and crashes halfway through? I have some ADD and the only way I can keep up is very specific cleaning checklists via Pinterest (bathroom cleaning: do x then y then z type deal) and set a timer. If he is generally a good guy I think a serious conversation to come up with a more specific plan of attack for household responsibilities (including checklists) could help get you both onto the same page. Best to be had when you are both calm and can have a productive talk.
I stay home, but I still think my H does a fair amount around the house. He will start or make dinner if I have a meeting or plans or whatever. He puts the girls to bed (we alternate night usually).
I think there has to be sharing in the workload of maintaining a house. I do not do his laundry, mostly because we were pretty used to doing our own by the time we married, but he does help with some of the other house chores and does all the yard/outside chores.
I would be very clear with what exactly he can do to help.
I would be angry if I were you too. You work full time and are doing the brunt of the parenting AND housework and he is working part time and has TONS of time to himself while the kids are in school ( so it's not like he's home all day with toddlers or something.)
I would outline expectations of 2-3 things he needs to do per a day. If he balks JUST STOP DOING THOSE THINGS until he fucking does them.
You shouldn't have to micromanage a grown ass man, but he isn't going to do better on his own right now.
So are all your kids in school FT and he's alone during the day until he picks them up? If so I would for sure be asking him to do more around the house when he's home. prep dinner laundry bills walking the dog cleaning etc
So I asked him, "What is it that you need in order to facilitate ease in our household. We both know certain things need to be done. How do we get to where we both do them equally?"
So much this. Whether it's him being a "man child" or just genuinely being wired differently (because there are plenty of women who will own up to being the one who just doesn't see the mess), working together and finding a system that works for both of you is important.
H at one point told me that we just have different levels of what good looks like. I get that, but I told him he seems to really enjoy having a well-kept house. A lot of work is required to keep it at the level he enjoyed so much.
He also maintained for awhile that if I ask him to do something he would do it but...a) he would forget and b) having to ask for basic shit to be done was exhausting me. I just want it done. My love language is also acts of service, so when I'd ask him to do something and then he wouldn't do it (because he forgot) it was a slap in the face. It took us 12 years together and almost 6 years of marriage to get him to comprehend how shitty it was. I had to point out to him all the times he forgot, and how much it impacted me. One time he forgot to do something 3 days in a row and that humbled him when I pointed it out.
How old are your children? Can they help? If he is at home more either because of fewer hours worked, flexible schedule, or being alone, then he will need to take on a little more.
We have created clear dividing lines on who is responsible for what and who does more is based on how many hours outside the home the person works. That could vary weekly. We also agree on what it means to 'take out trash' or 'do the dishes'. We realized that we each have different standards, so we discuss it ahead of time.
Generally speaking:
If you do kid drop off, you have to get kids ready for school and get dishes done in the morning before work M-F. I do dishes on the weekend (it's a chore he hates and one I like). Dishes means all dishes in dishwasher and counters/sink wiped down. If you do kid pick up, you do homework, make dinner, and oversee of kid chores. One kid picks up common areas, other kid puts away dishes M-F. Swap chores every day. DH wash/dries/folds laundry on Sunday. Each family member responsible for putting away. One kid feeds dog in AM and one feeds in PM, every day. I meal plan, make dinner, and grocery shop on Sunday. We usually have date night or friend/family bbq on Saturday so we don't normally make dinner. I do bills/budget on Saturday and I assign him the bills to pay. Kids clean 1 bathroom each, clean bedrooms, water plants, and put groceries away on the weekend. If the trash is full, you take it out. DH does weekly trash gathering and putting out trash cans, me or kids bring the cans in. House cleaner every other week. He handles school appointments with kids (scheduling, keeping track of to-dos, teacher emails, etc) and I handle scheduling medical appointments. We both attend appointments.
Post by hisno1girl on Oct 13, 2016 15:02:05 GMT -5
Now that I'm off work, we share in most of the duties, depending on how I feel. However, when we were both still working, it seems like I did a lot more of the household chores then he did.
Is a housekeeper in your budget? Take it out of your husband's fun money according to the percentage of work he does around the house. You do 80% of the housework? He pays 80% of the bill.
You have every right to be angry, and he should be doing more. That said...cleaning after him because it's not good enough for you is not going to get him to do more. It will likely tell him that he shouldn't bother, because you're not going to be happy with whatever he does.
You know your husband the best. I think the first thing you have to decide is if he is (a) an ass, (b) lazy, (c) someone that needs more direction (ADD or similar) or (4) special snowflake.
I think your strategy changes depending on what you think the answer is. For example, I might sometimes think my husband procrastinates and takes too long to do things (but he actually does a ton of household stuff). But, I know that this is NOT him being an ass. He might have ADD or just be much more Type B than I am, but he is never, ever trying to be a jerk. For my situation, it is most helpful when I stress to him what is really, really important to me and how much it would mean to me if he could do X by Y date. I also keep a running multipage to do list typed up for both of us.
If he is an ass, then I think you have to figure out why you married him and whether counseling might help.
If he is lazy, then I think you have to sit down and prioritize what is important to both of you and ask him to focus on those things. I think someone like this might respond to "hey, can we both split up some things and spend 30 minutes doing them at the same time and then we watch a movie?"
If he is a special snowflake, you will have to find a special snowflake strategy.
I will say that we have achieved a lot of equity in our marriage by playing to each others strengths and the things we dislike the least. I will never, ever expect my husband to cook dinner -- it isn't his thing. But, he loves to go off and fold laundry. I am better in the morning so I do more morning stuff. He is better at night and does more stuff then. I don't think equitable means you each do 50/50 of the exact same list of things.
We are balanced but it wasn't always that way. Promising to "do more" is vague and leaves room for miscommunication. I would block out time in your schedules to sit down together and make a list of a list of all the recurring tasks (we ranked ours based on time commitment/effort). Then come up with an agreement as to who will do what. The outline gets written down and posted somewhere highly visible (fridge) until it becomes routine/automatic. Make sure to also set a follow up meeting to discuss how the system is working and make any changes. #romance
What I've done in this situation is actually write out what I do and what he does and have a come to Jesus. It's worked somewhat but I've kind of given up on an even split. Also, I choose to ask him to do things that I know he will do fully. If I'm folding laundry and he's laying on the couch, I'll say "hey, can you help with this?" And he will. But not on his own.
Sorry, I know it's annoying to even have to ask but dammit it shouldn't all fall on one person.
So are all your kids in school FT and he's alone during the day until he picks them up? If so I would for sure be asking him to do more around the house when he's home. prep dinner laundry bills walking the dog cleaning etc
This. What the hell is he doing all day when the kids are in school? He can certainly manage to do a single load of laundry once a day and clean up the kitchen. That's what, 2 hours worth of work, max?
Post by Chiquitita on Oct 13, 2016 18:31:06 GMT -5
Can you print out your post and hand it to him. I was over doing everything at home so I wrote a huge list of all the shit I did and what he did. Its hard because I'm home for the summer but once school starts I need help. Him seeing it in writing was very helpful to him. We crossed out things from my side and added it to his side. Its still not perfect BUT it's A LOT BETTER.
You are doing way to much and need a break before you break.
I'm sorry, you sound so exhausted and frustrated. I've been there. First off I'd say you need to plan some down time for yourself. The way you are feeling, I'm not sure you can even have a calm discussion about this. Do you ever get time away from the house/kids? Plan a girls night or a spa day or even just an afternoon sitting at Starbucks where so you can relax and recharge. We all need it!
I agree with momof2 that I need to know if he feels bad at all and just can't figure out how to help or if he doesn't care. My H and I have had these types of arguments and my H usually feels bad when he sees how stressed I am. But habits are hard to change and it was tough to adjust when we had a kid. What I've realized is That he doesn't "see" the things that need to be done and they don't bother him as much as they do to me. So I had to give him certain tasks that are his responsibility. If he has to do them every day, he does it. But I can't expect him to just figure out what needs to be done. We made things more equitable by assigning tasks. So generally I cook, meal plan, grocery shop, do laundry, take care of DD most of them time. His jobs are dishes, yard work, trash, cleaning the bathrooms and he does bath time and bedtime if he is home in time from work. We picked these based on what we prefer doing. It works pretty well most of time. I think someone on here mentioned in the past that things don't necessarily have to be equal, but you should both feel like the other is pulling their weight. I hope you guys can work something out.
I spent all day cleaning and organizing one day last month, and then I asked him to take the garbage out. He sighed really loudly and said "fine, just go get it all together and leave it by the front door". I promptly lost my shit, and he hasn't done that again. Things are definitely not equal, but in fairness I WFH and my job has a lot more flexibility. I also let way more slide than I should because I make double what he makes, and I'm always worried about making him feel bad about that. However, we did have a bit of a come to Jesus because I was feeling completely overwhelmed recently.
Two things that I've changed that have helped us a lot - I still get mad that I have to ask (because holy hell, how hard is it to realize that it would be nice to pick up the toys you stepped over?!), but I ask him to do whatever I want done instead of waiting to see if he'll figure it out on his own or pick up on obvious hints. I also have just said screw it to a lot more. Certain things have to get done, but we let other stuff slide. We both work full-time and we have 4 year old twins - life is busy, and they're messy. Things won't be how they were pre-kids.
One more thought, stop with all this "we will both do more" nonsense. You need to go into this discussion with a clear idea of what you need to have happen. Approach this like a business meeting. Figure out the personality of who you are pitching to (see my note above about what the problem is). Figure out the best solution and the bare minimum you are willing to accept solution and have these set in your mind.
The discussion should go something like "listen, I feel like I'm carrying the burden of 90% of the tasks to keep this household running. Whether that number is accurate of not, this is how I feel and it is beginning to impact how I feel about you. I need to full more supported in the running of this household. What do you think you could do differently so that I am not so unhappy?" Then, stop and listen. If he has a good answer that is close to your best solution, then run with it. If his answer is bullshit, then you say "listen, here is what I really need from you" and you talk through your best case scenario." If he balks terribly, you start to negotiate down to your bare minimum of acceptability standard.