Swimming thoughts and request for workouts?

[mrshandy]

So I've alluded a few times that I've been trying to work flip turns into my lap swimming. I decided to do redo couch to 1650 with flip turns. That was going pretty well until the last few workouts when I just couldn't do them anymore around lap 18-20. I would flip and my body was just not cooperating. I would lose a lot of breath and energy defeating the whole purpose of doing them. I was googling and found that this is not uncommon. I need to either build up my lung capacity with drills or try a new breathing pattern. I've been doing bilateral breathing (stroke, stroke, breath) and I like it and it feels natural. But maybe I need more oxygen. 

My goal is to get faster and just become a better all-around swimmer. I would like to do at least one triathlon in the spring, but don't plan on doing them regularly until I can afford to buy a bike, likely not until next year (we're saving for a trip to Iceland). 

What are some good sources of swim workouts? What kind of workouts should I be doing? My caveat with this is I still need to work on alternate strokes. My backstroke is really shitty. I cannot figure out breast stroke. I have no idea how to do butterfly. I may take a class to work on that in the future.

What are your goals with swimming? And how did you shape your workouts around them?

[cinco]

I'm very much a beginner, but I can tell you what I've been doing and what my H suggests. I switched from bilateral breathing to every stroke (ie same side, I switch sides every 25m) It doesn't slow me down and gives me better oxygen/endurance. My H does the same unless he is racing a 25 or 50. I can crank out 2k fairly easily now, and have been told to focus on doing sets. I'm trying to keep it simple with 50's. DH suggested 10-12 50's on the minute mark, which made me laugh and laugh b/c it takes me 50 seconds to do still and that is a big improvement from when I started!

As for other strokes, I throw back and breast in there. I will not be attempting butterfly ever. If I couldn't do it in my youth it sure as hell isn't happening now.

My goals are a 1500 lake swim in May, and maybe a Tri in August. They have OWS practices for a month prior, so I'll be attending those.

My H is going to write me a few workouts. I'll share them with you!

[Deleted]

Oooh - swimming questions! I like these. I'm by no means any kind of authority, but I can tell you what has worked for me.

I take a breath every 4 strokes, always on the same side. When I slow my stroke down and fully extend my reach forward and behind, then it's less effort but my time remains the same as when I act like a big fleshy windmill.

I would highly recommend seeing a swim coach for a session, preferably one that will do a video session - this has shown me exactly what I am doing incorrectly.

My goals with swimming is to swim a 750m in 14 minutes. I did 16 minutes this morning, so I was happy (not fast, I know, but it's good for me!)
Other than that, I would like to swim 5km. I can do 2.5k no issues, but I want to build the distance. I have no ambition to swim any other stroke than front crawl.

[mrshandy]

Dec 2, 2016 8:52:34 GMT -5 @cheshire said:

Oooh - swimming questions!

I was thinking that maybe we could start doing like a weekly swim check in post. I would love to soak up (see what I did there knowledge from all the fabulous swimmers here. Like Freestyle Friday or something else clever?

[shorewife]

Dec 2, 2016 8:51:58 GMT -5 cinco said:

I'm very much a beginner, but I can tell you what I've been doing and what my H suggests. I switched from bilateral breathing to every stroke (ie same side, I switch sides every 25m) It doesn't slow me down and gives me better oxygen/endurance. My H does the same unless he is racing a 25 or 50. I can crank out 2k fairly easily now, and have been told to focus on doing sets. I'm trying to keep it simple with 50's. DH suggested 10-12 50's on the minute mark, which made me laugh and laugh b/c it takes me 50 seconds to do still and that is a big improvement from when I started!

As for other strokes, I throw back and breast in there. I will not be attempting butterfly ever. If I couldn't do it in my youth it sure as hell isn't happening now.

My goals are a 1500 lake swim in May, and maybe a Tri in August. They have OWS practices for a month prior, so I'll be attending those.

My H is going to write me a few workouts. I'll share them with you!

I was breathing every 3rd stroke and someone told me for tris/open water swimming to breathe every stroke.  I tried it in my last tri and cut almost a minute off my 1/4 mile swim time!!  

I don't really practice the other strokes at all but it can be argued that you should to make you a better swimmer.  I mostly focus on drills instead.

I don't have any particular workout I use when I'm not using a training plan but the internet has lots to choose from!

[mrs.jacinthe]

Personally, I breathe every two.  I can breathe bilaterally, and unilaterally to both sides.  But I find that breathing every two on the right is my happy place for oxygen.  If you're running out of air during your flip turns, I'd check form and flip turn "procedure" first - perhaps you're taking your last breath too early or too late.  However, it's possible that at that point in the workout, you're running on an oxygen deficit and that's why they get problematic.  I think what I'd do for right now is try breathing bilateral for the first 15 laps or so, then switch to unilateral every two and see if the flip turns stay easy or if they get harder regardless.

As regards swimming workouts, I get most of my ideas from the USMS forums, but there are plenty of workouts out there.  I'd be happy to return to posting some on a weekly basis if people want it.

[bluelikejazz]

I feel like I never contribute here anymore, but I love a good swimming post

I typically do a 2-3 breathing pattern (twice on the left side in a row, then twice on the right side in a row). It's a little more than every 3, but I feel off balance if I tried to breathe on the same side all the time.

A great flip turn drill is to do 3-4 flip turns during the length of the pool. Swim 3-4 strokes, flip-turn mid pool, stand up, repeat. It really helps to get your body used to the motion of using your arm/core to propel you around. Also, flip-turns are hard. A fast open turn (no stopping, just touch, pull your legs in and push off) for most people is just as effective/fast (at 7 months PG, I have to do about 50/50 flip turns vs open turns).

I've gotten a lot of great swimming workouts on pinterest of all places.

[al320]

I breath every two, its just the most comfortable for me. But i also do the occasional bilateral and hypoxic workouts when they show up. Hypoxic workouts REALLY make a difference, imo. And you dont have to do it all that often.

You can search google for workouts, i think swimswam has a lot. Im happy to share the workouts from masters when theyre better than normal somehow lol

I have no specific goals with swimming except to keep doing it and keep improving. If i could do a full 50 of fly that would be pretty awesome.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2016 9:06:12 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

Dec 2, 2016 8:52:34 GMT -5 @cheshire said:

Oooh - swimming questions!

I was thinking that maybe we could start doing like a weekly swim check in post. I would love to soak up (see what I did there knowledge from all the fabulous swimmers here. Like Freestyle Friday or something else clever?

I have SO much to learn with swimming - I would love a thread on this for people to educate me on the ways of the swimming. I wasn't kidding about being a fleshy windmill, that's about my skill level. It's amazing I make it to the other end of the pool!

[emilyj]

There are also specific breathing drills you can do to build up your lung capacity. I usually work a set of those in to my workouts.

My favorites are to do a set number of lengths with fins under water, and only rest a certain amount of time. The other one I really like is with a pull bouy - breathe every three, then every 5, then every 3, then every 5. You could also work up to breathe every 5, breathe every 7, breathe every 5, etc.

[schrodinger]

In my experience, people usually have inefficient flip turns for one of two reasons: not using their arms to drive the somersault (and keeping them tucked in), or rolling onto their stomachs before pushing off (instead of while streamlining off the wall). Could you get someone to videotape you? www.instructables.com/id/How-to-do-a-flip-turn/ this series has pretty good pictures of form.

I like the workouts that Active has posted: www.active.com/swimming/articles/swimming-workouts but I tend to just make up my own based on how much time I have and what I feel like doing.

[mrshandy]

Dec 2, 2016 13:55:13 GMT -5 schrodinger said:

In my experience, people usually have inefficient flip turns for one of two reasons: not using their arms to drive the somersault (and keeping them tucked in), or rolling onto their stomachs before pushing off (instead of while streamlining off the wall). Could you get someone to videotape you? www.instructables.com/id/How-to-do-a-flip-turn/ this series has pretty good pictures of form.

I like the workouts that Active has posted: www.active.com/swimming/articles/swimming-workouts but I tend to just make up my own based on how much time I have and what I feel like doing.

I don't have any swimming buddies yet. But that might be something to look into.

I'm sure my form is definitely off as I get more tired. I feel like it's pretty decent in the beginning of my workout usually. I do use my arms and try not to flip too soon. 

I do feel like my problem is related to fatigue. I do the same stuff I've been doing, but it just doesn't work properly.

mrs.jacinthe, I've definitely learned to try to take a breath right before I flip. That has helped me a lot. 

[mrshandy]

Ok random swimming question

If a workout doesn't prescribe any rest, does that mean no rest? Like this one. Do you have any rest in between the 250 sets?

2 x 250 crawl changing breathing pattern
25 yards breathe every 6th stroke
50 yards breathe every 5th stroke (bilateral breathing)
75 yards breathe every 4th stroke
100 yards breathe every 3rd stroke

[mrs.jacinthe]

I take as long as I need between sets. Sometimes that's 10 seconds, sometimes it's a minute. It depends on how hard the set was. But yes, take a short rest in there.

[mrs.jacinthe]

Dec 2, 2016 16:03:55 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

Dec 2, 2016 13:55:13 GMT -5 schrodinger said:

In my experience, people usually have inefficient flip turns for one of two reasons: not using their arms to drive the somersault (and keeping them tucked in), or rolling onto their stomachs before pushing off (instead of while streamlining off the wall). Could you get someone to videotape you? www.instructables.com/id/How-to-do-a-flip-turn/ this series has pretty good pictures of form.

I like the workouts that Active has posted: www.active.com/swimming/articles/swimming-workouts but I tend to just make up my own based on how much time I have and what I feel like doing.

I don't have any swimming buddies yet. But that might be something to look into.

I'm sure my form is definitely off as I get more tired. I feel like it's pretty decent in the beginning of my workout usually. I do use my arms and try not to flip too soon. 

I do feel like my problem is related to fatigue. I do the same stuff I've been doing, but it just doesn't work properly.

mrs.jacinthe, I've definitely learned to try to take a breath right before I flip. That has helped me a lot. 

You may be breathing too close to the flip, which leads to momentum loss and too much time/effort on the turn proper, which would make you out of breath.

Personally, when I flip, which isn't often, I try to breathe no more than 2-3 pulls before the turn and start breathing again at 2-3 pulls after. Your mileage may vary, though.

If you can't have a coach watch you and make suggestions, I'd suggest recording yourself (or asking the lifeguard to do it) so that you can see where you're taking too much time and or wasting air.

[al320]

Dec 5, 2016 11:04:11 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

Ok random swimming question

If a workout doesn't prescribe any rest, does that mean no rest? Like this one. Do you have any rest in between the 250 sets?

2 x 250 crawl changing breathing pattern
25 yards breathe every 6th stroke
50 yards breathe every 5th stroke (bilateral breathing)
75 yards breathe every 4th stroke
100 yards breathe every 3rd stroke

Yes rest!! The amount of rest will really depend on the goals of your workout. But its usually 10-20 seconds. Take more if you need it.