Trump is bringing progressive Protestants back to church

[5thofjuly]

Excellent! The social justice Christians are a huge backbone of my "strange bedfellows who overthrow Trump" plan.

[pixy0stix]

Good.

On a related note, I've been feeling like it's time to return to church.

[gpw]

We have a new pastor at our church. I have been to church one time since the funeral of my last pastor (it still really hurts. I never realized how much I associated that place with that person. He WAS my church.). With my former pastor, I knew exactly where he stood along political lines and it played out in the way things were handled there.

With the new one, I have hopes, but I don't KNOW. I know he went to my high school...which should be comforting except the majority of people who used to be on my FB feed are now gone because of Trump. I don't think he is like them...I see the posts he makes and I see that he is trying to keep "on message" as far as scripture/religion, etc. and while I find that admirable, I also know that I am a member of a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. It doesn't get more conservative than that outside of the Bible belt, I think.

Part of me feels like I need a new church. Even thinking that right now makes me cry, though. My church is a source of comfort for me. My brother was married there (twice), my niece was baptized there, I was married there, my father is buried there. It's part of me. I don't think I could bear it if it weren't a safe place anymore.

.....that took an unintentional personal turn. Sorry about that.

[Michelle]

Dec 11, 2016 12:16:51 GMT -5 gpw said:

We have a new pastor at our church. I have been to church one time since the funeral of my last pastor (it still really hurts. I never realized how much I associated that place with that person. He WAS my church.). With my former pastor, I knew exactly where he stood along political lines and it played out in the way things were handled there.

With the new one, I have hopes, but I don't KNOW. I know he went to my high school...which should be comforting except the majority of people who used to be on my FB feed are now gone because of Trump. I don't think he is like them...I see the posts he makes and I see that he is trying to keep "on message" as far as scripture/religion, etc. and while I find that admirable, I also know that I am a member of a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. It doesn't get more conservative than that outside of the Bible belt, I think.

Part of me feels like I need a new church. Even thinking that right now makes me cry, though. My church is a source of comfort for me. My brother was married there (twice), my niece was baptized there, I was married there, my father is buried there. It's part of me. I don't think I could bear it if it weren't a safe place anymore.

.....that took an unintentional personal turn. Sorry about that.

I went to elementary school at a Missouri synod Lutheran church. The synod has really doubled down on marriage being between a man and woman only, about traditional values, etc. Many churches go that direction in terms of speed based on the filter through which the pastor leads. You may find that this particular church is moving away from what you believe to your core, and that will be excruciating. But maybe an ELCA branch can be your new home and you just go visit the old one now and then.

Good luck however the path goes. Finding a church home is something I have yet to manage since moving to my suburb ten years ago. It is hard.

[DotAndBuzz]

Dec 11, 2016 12:16:51 GMT -5 gpw said:

We have a new pastor at our church.  

I'm sorry.  I know how hard it is to separate from your "home" church.  In my case, it was a forced geographical relocation, so I had no choice.  But it is still so hard.  I've done it twice now (both for cross country moves), and still haven't found one near me that is a solid fit, so we don't attend now, but I have felt a lot more recently that I need to go back.  

If you enjoy and connect with the Lutheran church, I was also going to suggest checking out Evangelical Lutheran churches. I send my kids to one for 4 years for preschool, and it was amazing.  Nothing but love, faith, openness, and a giant rainbow flag sticker on the door.  They didn't even judge me when E came home bragging about the "fairy" she had colored at Christmas time.  Yeah, it was an angel, she just didn't know it, because I hadn't taken her to church regularly.  They also didn't bat an eye when she announced that Trump is "a meaner than the Pharisees who got mad at Jesus."  The teachers in the back of the room actually left the room laughing.  

The services aren't my style, so we aren't members there, but it is a very liberal church from what I've seen.  

[krystee]

This is interesting because I have not wanted to go to church at all since the election. This election, Pence, Kasich, Donald Trump's fake pandering to Christians on the abortion issue...all of it has made me disgusted with religion right now. Basically, I believe in God but want nothing to do with his followers at the moment.

I have been tempted to go to a UU church or a very liberal Methodist church nearby so maybe I will start there soon.

[OscarQ]

Dec 11, 2016 12:06:37 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Good.

On a related note, I've been feeling like it's time to return to church.

I've had this feeling lately too.  I'm an atheist but we're sending our kids to the local catholic school and they're getting pretty into the religious education. That's fine with me but the church associated with the school - our parish - is pretty conservative. Sitting on the sidelines isn't going to cause that to change. So I'm going to start going to church.  And if I really can't stand this congregation/priest, I'll find the most progressive catholic church I can and go there.

[cville]

Dec 11, 2016 12:06:37 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Good.

On a related note, I've been feeling like it's time to return to church.

Me too. I'm still on a factfinding mission to pick one.

[saz]

Add me to the crowd who has been thinking about going back. I was raised in a conservative non-denominational "Bible church" and left all religion in college. I kind of have some spiritual beliefs. I'm not really sure where I stand now - atheist with magical thinking is how I've been describing it haha. There's a church near us that seems like UU but calls itself something else that I've been curious about. My oldest (7) is very spiritual and is interested in learning more about Jesus and Buddha and this church teaches both so it seems like it might be time. We'll see.

[bowies]

How does one find a progressive church?

I was raised Catholic but it's just too conservative for me, especially here in the South. I've tried UU but it's not my speed either. Do I just check out websites and look for clues?

[wambam]

Dec 11, 2016 14:38:45 GMT -5 bowies said:

How does one find a progressive church?

I was raised Catholic but it's just too conservative for me, especially here in the South. I've tried UU but it's not my speed either. Do I just check out websites and look for clues?

Gaychurch.org is a good start for LGBT affirming denominations and congregations

[andwhat]

Dec 11, 2016 14:38:45 GMT -5 bowies said:

How does one find a progressive church?

I was raised Catholic but it's just too conservative for me, especially here in the South. I've tried UU but it's not my speed either. Do I just check out websites and look for clues?

H and just went to several different churches (this was while we were still dating). But now the one we settled on before we got married and our DD was baptized at doesn't feel right to me anymore. I think we may be on the hunt again, but I think H and I are looking for 2 different things out of church.

[wambam]

I couldn't set foot in church after the election. I "had church" alone in my reading room.

[gpw]

Dec 11, 2016 14:18:46 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Dec 11, 2016 12:16:51 GMT -5 gpw said:

We have a new pastor at our church. I have been to church one time since the funeral of my last pastor (it still really hurts. I never realized how much I associated that place with that person. He WAS my church.). With my former pastor, I knew exactly where he stood along political lines and it played out in the way things were handled there.

With the new one, I have hopes, but I don't KNOW. I know he went to my high school...which should be comforting except the majority of people who used to be on my FB feed are now gone because of Trump. I don't think he is like them...I see the posts he makes and I see that he is trying to keep "on message" as far as scripture/religion, etc. and while I find that admirable, I also know that I am a member of a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. It doesn't get more conservative than that outside of the Bible belt, I think.

Part of me feels like I need a new church. Even thinking that right now makes me cry, though. My church is a source of comfort for me. My brother was married there (twice), my niece was baptized there, I was married there, my father is buried there. It's part of me. I don't think I could bear it if it weren't a safe place anymore.

.....that took an unintentional personal turn. Sorry about that.

I can only imagine.
I'm LCMS too, but most members are really liberal compared to what I expect from outside of coastal SoCal. 
I don't buy into the churches stance on gay marriage, and abortion. They are on the wrong side of history, humanity, and social justice with that one. I can't support that hateful stance. 
So, I consider myself to be Cafeteria Catholic Lite. 

Really?!  I so rarely encounter anyone who is LCMS outside of that circle!  

I LOVED my pastor.  He was actually like a member of the family.  The ONLY reason I still AM LCMS is because of him.  My church is (was?) so open.  He NEVER talked politics from the pulpit.  Ever.  I happen to know his politics because he was a former city councilman in our city, but he never brought it into church.  Honestly, if the synod knew some of the things he did, we would have gotten kicked out post haste.  Which is sad.  What he did for my church....he was amazing.  He took an insanely beautiful church when it was run down and practically crumbling to a full on protected historic site with a building that is completely restored.  
www.historictrinity.org

[BicycleBride]

Dec 11, 2016 14:38:45 GMT -5 bowies said:

How does one find a progressive church?

I was raised Catholic but it's just too conservative for me, especially here in the South. I've tried UU but it's not my speed either. Do I just check out websites and look for clues?

The Presbyterian church (PCUSA) has the network of "more light" churches (google it, there is a list) that are open and affirming but even PCUSA churches that are not more light can be fairly progressive.
In general though, most churches have a mission statement of some sort and you can read between the lines to figure out a lot. It's a bit of an acquired skill though as you learn the issues.

[mouse]

Dec 11, 2016 14:38:45 GMT -5 bowies said:

How does one find a progressive church?

I was raised Catholic but it's just too conservative for me, especially here in the South. I've tried UU but it's not my speed either. Do I just check out websites and look for clues?

I was raised Congregationalist, so UCC churches feel comfortable to me, while still being at the liberal end of the spectrum. Evangelical Lutheran (contrary to what you might expect from the name) are very accepting and affirming, PCUSA as well. I think some Episcopal churches, too and if you were raised Catholic, it might feel familiar. If I were looking, I would look for congregations that ordain women.

I think there's another stumbling block for liberal churches, and that's respecting the separation of church and state. I know the law is not endorsing specific legislation or specific candidates, but in general I think liberal congregations have looked at how conservative evangelicals conduct themselves and feel like it's better not to open that box.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Dec 11, 2016 14:38:45 GMT -5 bowies said:

How does one find a progressive church?

I was raised Catholic but it's just too conservative for me, especially here in the South. I've tried UU but it's not my speed either. Do I just check out websites and look for clues?

try ELCA lutheran .. alot of Catholic traditions carried over BUT its a far more left leaning progressive church.

my dad and his brother are both retired ELCA ministers and both very progressive socially. its killing my dad to live in DT country (OH and MI). keep this in mind - among the protestant denominations, ELCA is one of a handful that not only ordains gay clergy but they ordain openly gay clergy as well; they support same sex marriage and choice ...

there's a fascinating story on how ELCA came to be .. wiki Seminex

[pinkdutchtulips]

Dec 11, 2016 15:07:39 GMT -5 gpw said:

Dec 11, 2016 14:18:46 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

I can only imagine.
I'm LCMS too, but most members are really liberal compared to what I expect from outside of coastal SoCal. 
I don't buy into the churches stance on gay marriage, and abortion. They are on the wrong side of history, humanity, and social justice with that one. I can't support that hateful stance. 
So, I consider myself to be Cafeteria Catholic Lite. 

Really?!  I so rarely encounter anyone who is LCMS outside of that circle!  

I LOVED my pastor.  He was actually like a member of the family.  The ONLY reason I still AM LCMS is because of him.  My church is (was?) so open.  He NEVER talked politics from the pulpit.  Ever.  I happen to know his politics because he was a former city councilman in our city, but he never brought it into church.  Honestly, if the synod knew some of the things he did, we would have gotten kicked out post haste.  Which is sad.  What he did for my church....he was amazing.  He took an insanely beautiful church when it was run down and practically crumbling to a full on protected historic site with a building that is completely restored.  
www.historictrinity.org

former Detroit PK here .. i've got an ELCA church for you to check out ... Iroquois Ave Christ Lutheran Church in Indian Village. You might want to start your church search there.  it was my dad's first call when he started out

[5hole]

Our episcopal church has been my lifeline since the election. There are plenty of more progressive denominations to choose from that truly practice love thy neighbor as a bedrock.

[gpw]

Dec 11, 2016 18:34:41 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Dec 11, 2016 15:07:39 GMT -5 gpw said:

Really?!  I so rarely encounter anyone who is LCMS outside of that circle!  

I LOVED my pastor.  He was actually like a member of the family.  The ONLY reason I still AM LCMS is because of him.  My church is (was?) so open.  He NEVER talked politics from the pulpit.  Ever.  I happen to know his politics because he was a former city councilman in our city, but he never brought it into church.  Honestly, if the synod knew some of the things he did, we would have gotten kicked out post haste.  Which is sad.  What he did for my church....he was amazing.  He took an insanely beautiful church when it was run down and practically crumbling to a full on protected historic site with a building that is completely restored.  
www.historictrinity.org

Orange County has a huge German Lutheran/ LCMS presence. Throw a rock in any direction, and you'll hit a LCMS church, school, high school (there's two large ones), and a Concordia University. I think we're the largest grouping outside the Midwest.
It's a weird mix of Orange County politically purple people, despite belonging to a synod that really needs to get with the times.

I was born into it, my family members were pioneers here, so I'm not leaving LCMS. Side note, I only feel comfortable in strict Catholic/ Jesuit, or Presbyterian environments for consistent weekly worship. However, since I have some vocal pull, I'm committed to doing the work of changing the church from with in. It's made huge strides in other aspects of social justice, so I have to believe that, at least in our tiny segment of SoCal, we'll be able to make the same level of changes on the gay rights and inclusiveness front.

BIG ditto from me on that.

[stephm0188]

I get the sense that the Methodist church we recently started attending is pretty liberal, which is something I find refreshing living in a red part of our state. IDK why I was stunned to hear our pastor mention Standing Rock during prayer, or make reference to a dark political climate during a sermon recently where the message was to poke holes into the darkness and let light shine through... but it's been good to hear. It's been about love and sending light into the world.

It made me downright giddy to see a Michelle Obama "When they go low, we go high" bumper sticker on another car in the parking lot. No Trump stickers.

[sonrisa]

The opposite has happened to me.

We went church shopping when first married and seriously looking at a number of options. I wanted to support the Episcopal church because it was upholding some values that mattered to us. We settled down and had both kids baptized. But this church has become more conservative over the years and is further from our values than we had hoped. It has back down from open communion (a staunch value of this parish since the 70s). It doesn't accommodate families well. It stubbornly refuses to have a woman as the lead rector. I'm done.

If one purpose of church is to help guide our kids' values, I'm not willing to compromise on a church that doesn't support the values that matter most to me. 

[sessy]

This has been true in my congregation. I'm in a super liberal, largely unchurched city, and the sunday after the election we had several people visiting who just needed church. My church isn't split though. We're progressive and liberal and there's been some deep mourning and distress going on.

My job now is too keep the people who woke up, awake and in action.

[litebright]

Dec 11, 2016 18:34:41 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Dec 11, 2016 15:07:39 GMT -5 gpw said:

Really?!  I so rarely encounter anyone who is LCMS outside of that circle!  

I LOVED my pastor.  He was actually like a member of the family.  The ONLY reason I still AM LCMS is because of him.  My church is (was?) so open.  He NEVER talked politics from the pulpit.  Ever.  I happen to know his politics because he was a former city councilman in our city, but he never brought it into church.  Honestly, if the synod knew some of the things he did, we would have gotten kicked out post haste.  Which is sad.  What he did for my church....he was amazing.  He took an insanely beautiful church when it was run down and practically crumbling to a full on protected historic site with a building that is completely restored.  
www.historictrinity.org

Orange County has a huge German Lutheran/ LCMS presence. Throw a rock in any direction, and you'll hit a LCMS church, school, high school (there's two large ones), and a Concordia University. I think we're the largest grouping outside the Midwest.
It's a weird mix of Orange County politically purple people, despite belonging to a synod that really needs to get with the times.

I was born into it, my family members were pioneers here, so I'm not leaving LCMS. Side note, I only feel comfortable in strict Catholic/ Jesuit, or Presbyterian environments for consistent weekly worship. However, since I have some vocal pull, I'm committed to doing the work of changing the church from with in. It's made huge strides in other aspects of social justice, so I have to believe that, at least in our tiny segment of SoCal, we'll be able to make the same level of changes on the gay rights and inclusiveness front.

Are Presbyterian and Lutheran services very similar to the Catholic Mass? 

We attend a Catholic church now. My DH is Catholic, our girls are baptized Catholic and I went to Catholic high school -- after four years of religion classes, I am very familiar with it. I considered converting several times, but I have too many differences with the church's philosophy to feel comfortable standing up and pledging to it. Our current congregation is both huge and pretty conservative, focused on social issues more than social justice. And after a decade-plus, it is starting to really get to me that I can't participate fully in the Eucharist. I never thought that would be something I miss so much, but it is. 

I also miss the Protestant music/traditional hymns, extended sermons and more prominent role for women that I found as a Methodist. But I don't think I'm going to get my DH to be okay with Methodism/regular attendance there. We both enjoy traditional services (as opposed to the more free-form, super-upbeat-modern-music evangelical type). It would be really nice to find something that would be sort of midway point, but I haven't attended Lutheran services since I was a small child (was baptized Lutheran) and I know nothing about the Presbyterian church/services. 

[froggy76]

I've also been thinking about going to church. I'm an atheist, but I could really use that sense of community. There's a UU church near me that is very active in social issues and I might try there.

[simpsongal]

litebright, would you consider switching back and forth? DH and I attend a Catholic Church and a Baptist Church (switching every other week). We both prefer a more formal service too. It's nice to get exposed to two different congregations and styles.

My Baptist pastor is quite progressive. The congregation definitely runs the continuum from liberal to conservative. He doesn't tread lightly when it comes to social justice.

Good luck to those looking for a church. It can be a difficult search. Word of mouth is always good, also looking at the church website and seeing the focus of their message. I definitely prefer an exegetical sermon too.

[froggy76]

Dec 11, 2016 20:00:57 GMT -5 incogneato said:

Dec 11, 2016 19:52:13 GMT -5 froggy76 said:

I've also been thinking about going to church. I'm an atheist, but I could really use that sense of community. There's a UU church near me that is very active in social issues and I might try there.

We checked out the UU church this fall. DH was raised catholic, I'm non Christian. We really liked the UU church. They had a huge rainbow flag and a black lives matter banner in the main hall. The sermons were thought-provoking. The children's education one day was about a crayon in a red wrapper who felt like he was blue and how we should respect his feelings. ❤️

We loved it. We've been back a few times and plan to go more regularly.

That's good to hear. The one near me has several different social action groups- racial justice, rainbow alliance, reproductive justice, middle east, environmental causes, gun violence, etc. 

[LoveTrains]

Dec 11, 2016 15:26:03 GMT -5 BicycleBride said:

Dec 11, 2016 14:38:45 GMT -5 bowies said:

How does one find a progressive church?

I was raised Catholic but it's just too conservative for me, especially here in the South. I've tried UU but it's not my speed either. Do I just check out websites and look for clues?

The Presbyterian church (PCUSA) has the network of "more light" churches (google it, there is a list) that are open and affirming but even PCUSA churches that are not more light can be fairly progressive.
In general though, most churches have a mission statement of some sort and you can read between the lines to figure out a lot. It's a bit of an acquired skill though as you learn the issues.

My mother is a PCUSA pastor and I grew up in the church. I haven't spent a lot of time in it over the last 5 years or so, but lately i've been sporadically attending the PCUSA church in my city and its really great. It's racially and socio-economically diverse (for my area), they do progressive outreach like had a tent out at the pride parade/rally in the summer, do good works in the city like volunteer for the food bank, and I've been pretty impressed.

I didn't go today but I'm making an effort to go more. The congregation is very welcoming.

[litebright]

Dec 11, 2016 19:57:27 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

litebright , would you consider switching back and forth? DH and I attend a Catholic Church and a Baptist Church (switching every other week). We both prefer a more formal service too. It's nice to get exposed to two different congregations and styles.

My Baptist pastor is quite progressive. The congregation definitely runs the continuum from liberal to conservative. He doesn't tread lightly when it comes to social justice.

Good luck to those looking for a church. It can be a difficult search. Word of mouth is always good, also looking at the church website and seeing the focus of their message. I definitely prefer an exegetical sermon too.

We have done that at times, but it never lasts. It's hard enough to establish yourself at one church, let alone two.

If we want to get more involved than just going to weekly services, I think we need to pick one. I used to sing in the choir, I'd like to do that again. Plus, things like kids in Sunday school/LBC and going through the process of confirmation/first confession, etc. mean a higher premium on consistency at one church that we can both agree on. 

[LoveTrains]

Dec 11, 2016 19:36:59 GMT -5 litebright said:

Dec 11, 2016 18:34:41 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Orange County has a huge German Lutheran/ LCMS presence. Throw a rock in any direction, and you'll hit a LCMS church, school, high school (there's two large ones), and a Concordia University. I think we're the largest grouping outside the Midwest.
It's a weird mix of Orange County politically purple people, despite belonging to a synod that really needs to get with the times.

I was born into it, my family members were pioneers here, so I'm not leaving LCMS. Side note, I only feel comfortable in strict Catholic/ Jesuit, or Presbyterian environments for consistent weekly worship. However, since I have some vocal pull, I'm committed to doing the work of changing the church from with in. It's made huge strides in other aspects of social justice, so I have to believe that, at least in our tiny segment of SoCal, we'll be able to make the same level of changes on the gay rights and inclusiveness front.

Are Presbyterian and Lutheran services very similar to the Catholic Mass? 

We attend a Catholic church now. My DH is Catholic, our girls are baptized Catholic and I went to Catholic high school -- after four years of religion classes, I am very familiar with it. I considered converting several times, but I have too many differences with the church's philosophy to feel comfortable standing up and pledging to it. Our current congregation is both huge and pretty conservative, focused on social issues more than social justice. And after a decade-plus, it is starting to really get to me that I can't participate fully in the Eucharist. I never thought that would be something I miss so much, but it is. 

I also miss the Protestant music/traditional hymns, extended sermons and more prominent role for women that I found as a Methodist. But I don't think I'm going to get my DH to be okay with Methodism/regular attendance there. We both enjoy traditional services (as opposed to the more free-form, super-upbeat-modern-music evangelical type). It would be really nice to find something that would be sort of midway point, but I haven't attended Lutheran services since I was a small child (was baptized Lutheran) and I know nothing about the Presbyterian church/services. 

I think a PCUSA service is pretty different from a Catholic mass, but they are probably more similar than some of the megachurch evangelical type services (although I have never been to one of those).

Many PCUSA churches only have communion once a month (first Sunday of the month). The children stay in the service for the first hymn and prayer and then have a children's message fro mthe pastor. After teh children's message, they will go to Sunday School. The sermon will be 15-20 minutes and the entire service won't last longer than an hour. There will be prayers of the people when they entire congregation will get a chance to ask for prayers.