I think the issue is you have a religious school (catholic) being required to teach/accept something it disagrees with so of course some of the parents who sent their kids there for religious reasons are upset over this and want to opt out.
Yes, except I don't teach at a religious school, I teach at the non-religious school. And for the most part I never talk about religion in my classroom period. The exception is when I teach Canadian history!
Post by basilosaurus on Sept 10, 2012 20:35:27 GMT -5
Actually, yes, there's fundie anger about set theory. Let me dig up links. Missouri passed legislation that allows a student to opt out of anything that conflicts with their beliefs. Theoretically this could be anything, although in practice it will likely be sex ed and evolution. Oh, and anything they find difficult
Also, I want to rant that it's ridiculous that a teacher isn't allow to confirm the scientific theoryof evolution. And that a teacher thinks that "we come from monkeys" is what that theory states.
Here, from a beka books (from Pensacola Christian College, used in a lot of homeschool and christian schools), about the evils of set theory.
Unlike the ‘modern math’ theorists, who believe that mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative, A Beka Book teaches that the laws of mathematics are a creation of God and thus absolute… A Beka Book provides attractive, legible, and workable traditional mathematics texts that are not burdened with modern theories such as set theory.” — ABeka.com
Thats interesting that Canada is even more strict on religious issues than we are, lol. I'm surprised. We talk about evolution, no problem, in most parts of the country.
I did have a colleague refuse to teach evolution a few years ago. She taught bio so that didn't fly. They moved her to physics and told her to shush about it.
Actually, yes, there's fundie anger about set theory. Let me dig up links. Missouri passed legislation that allows a student to opt out of anything that conflicts with their beliefs. Theoretically this could be anything, although in practice it will likely be sex ed and evolution. Oh, and anything they find difficult
Also, I want to rant that it's ridiculous that a teacher isn't allow to confirm the scientific theoryof evolution. And that a teacher thinks that "we come from monkeys" is what that theory states.
Here, from a beka books (from Pensacola Christian College, used in a lot of homeschool and christian schools), about the evils of set theory.
Unlike the ‘modern math’ theorists, who believe that mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative, A Beka Book teaches that the laws of mathematics are a creation of God and thus absolute… A Beka Book provides attractive, legible, and workable traditional mathematics texts that are not burdened with modern theories such as set theory.” — ABeka.com
Are you talking about me or was there something in the article about this? Because my anecdote wasn't really about me believing in that, it was more about me side-stepping the issue entirely because I can't really talk about it with my kids without offending at least 3/4 of my class (if it were part of my curriculum it would be another issue).
Can I also mention that I am going to HATE teaching Ancient Civ to my grade 5s...probably won't be able to do Myths and Gods and what not...SUCKS! (Actually, it might be a specific part of the curriculum so I might just have to ask the kids in question to leave).
Thats interesting that Canada is even more strict on religious issues than we are, lol. I'm surprised. We talk about evolution, no problem, in most parts of the country.
I did have a colleague refuse to teach evolution a few years ago. She taught bio so that didn't fly. They moved her to physics and told her to shush about it.
anecdote: All the 7th grade teachers at my middle school refused to teach evolution, it was during a period of teacher shortages and they had the principal and the board over a barrel so Idisn't get evolution until biology in high school
Thats interesting that Canada is even more strict on religious issues than we are, lol. I'm surprised. We talk about evolution, no problem, in most parts of the country.
I did have a colleague refuse to teach evolution a few years ago. She taught bio so that didn't fly. They moved her to physics and told her to shush about it.
Its more that the Charter of Rights and Freedom is fairly all-encompassing and as a result the religious beliefs of any group cannot be infringed upon. It's interesting because I agree with it in theory but in practice it makes my job much more challenging.
Post by basilosaurus on Sept 10, 2012 20:43:25 GMT -5
Yes, rugbywife, I'm referring to you. By stating that some people believe what is contrary to the theory, you confirmed their misinformation. We share a common ancestor, but we don't come from monkeys. That's something creationists use to distort and discredit evolution.
Oh, and evolution isn't a belief. It's a foundational theory of biology. To be afraid of stating so is ridiculous. Not of you, but of the policy. If a student asked if the sun revolves around the earth, would you state that some people believe that?
Yes, rugbywife, I'm referring to you. By stating that some people believe what is contrary to the theory, you confirmed their misinformation. We share a common ancestor, but we don't come from monkeys. That's something creationists use to distort and discredit evolution.
Oh, and evolution isn't a belief. It's a foundational theory of biology. To be afraid of stating so is ridiculous. Not of you, but of the policy. If a student asked if the sun revolves around the earth, would you state that some people believe that?
I didn't confirm it at all. I said "Yes, some people believe that". I didn't say it was correct or incorrect. There are a people who believe in it. It was neither the place nor the time to get into a much larger discussion that in the context of my classroom would have involved multiple calls to parents to announce the topic. There was no way for me to deal with it at the time, when speaking to an 8 year old boy who speaks limited English because he just moved here. Clearly I know that is not the evolutionary process but it wasn't, as they would say, a good teachable moment, so I diffused it the best I could so that the discussion between the two students would end.
Oh, and evolution isn't a belief. It's a foundational theory of biology. To be afraid of stating so is ridiculous. Not of you, but of the policy. If a student asked if the sun revolves around the earth, would you state that some people believe that?
Sorry, I missed this part. I believe in evolution however there are many religions that do not. I cannot, in the case of several students in my class, discuss the topic without first notifying their parents to make them aware of exactly what I would be discussing and what details would be shared. Then they would decide to have their children attend or not attend. Then I could teach it, properly, stating it as a fact. It isn't that I am afraid to do it, it is that I legally can't, I could be sued.
I know people homeschool because they are narrow minded bigots. I know that it's good to get different viewpoints. I also know that you learn to be more tolerant and accepting of different viewpoints and people who are different than you from exposure to these differences and that this exposure isn't limited to class time.
So as much as I think opting out is fucking stupid as hell, I think essentially forcing these idiots to further isolate their children by homeschooling or sending their kid to uberfundieville schools is probably even worse.
Also, I'm thinking the ability to opt out should lead to teachers having more freedom to teach. Or at least it should.
I know people homeschool because they are narrow minded bigots. I know that it's good to get different viewpoints. I also know that you learn to be more tolerant and accepting of different viewpoints and people who are different than you from exposure to these differences and that this exposure isn't limited to class time.
So as much as I think opting out is fucking stupid as hell, I think essentially forcing these idiots to further isolate their children by homeschooling or sending their kid to uberfundieville schools is probably even worse.
Also, I'm thinking the ability to opt out should lead to teachers having more freedom to teach. Or at least it should.
I agree. And to be honest, when kids say things like "two men shouldn't be married", other kids speak up, I hear it all the time. So that kind of exposure is good.
Thats interesting that Canada is even more strict on religious issues than we are, lol. I'm surprised. We talk about evolution, no problem, in most parts of the country.
I did have a colleague refuse to teach evolution a few years ago. She taught bio so that didn't fly. They moved her to physics and told her to shush about it.
I don't think that Canada is necessarily more strict, but perhaps tends to take a "some people believe...." approach so to be inclusive?
I know people homeschool because they are narrow minded bigots. I know that it's good to get different viewpoints. I also know that you learn to be more tolerant and accepting of different viewpoints and people who are different than you from exposure to these differences and that this exposure isn't limited to class time.
So as much as I think opting out is fucking stupid as hell, I think essentially forcing these idiots to further isolate their children by homeschooling or sending their kid to uberfundieville schools is probably even worse.
Also, I'm thinking the ability to opt out should lead to teachers having more freedom to teach. Or at least it should.
I think thats a fair point - except that teachers still have to somehow supervise these kids who are being excluded. It just is very logistically difficult.
But there are not people who believe that. Or if they do it's because a school system failed to teach them the theory correctly.
I completely agree, but I wasn't in a position to demystify the issue for the child at that moment. I wish I could have, because it hurt my soul to pretend for one moment that there was any other answer than evolution (explained properly).
k, here's my 'teacher anecdote for the day'...I can hear two of my grade 4 students talking about dinosaurs or something but I am barely listening.
Little student 'U' (recently moved to Canada from Pakistan) says: "Miss, this book says that people used to be monkeys, that's true, right?"
Me: "That's what some people believe".
Little Student 'U' returns to desk to Student 'M': "She said people came from monkeys"
Student 'M': "No she didn't, she said some people believe and I don't".
This is the type of situation where I have to watch EVERYTHING I say, I literally almost said, "Of course it's true"....but I can't, because that would get me in shit.
Wait, what?? The answer is NO, people did not come from monkeys. We share a common ancestor, but humans are not descendant from monkeys.
ETA: I really should read the whole thread before posting.
Thats interesting that Canada is even more strict on religious issues than we are, lol. I'm surprised. We talk about evolution, no problem, in most parts of the country.
I did have a colleague refuse to teach evolution a few years ago. She taught bio so that didn't fly. They moved her to physics and told her to shush about it.
I don't think that Canada is necessarily more strict, but perhaps tends to take a "some people believe...." approach so to be inclusive?
It also depends on what region you are in.
lol I think we are as "inclusive" as possible when it comes to christianity.
I'm opposed to allowing kids to opt out of education. It's not the school's job to protect your kid's ignorance. If you think being gay is wrong, teach them so at home. If you don't want them to learn about condoms? Too bad.
I agree with this. If I send my kid to Catholic school then I expect they learn things I may not believe in and we can talk about it at home if I choose to. There are certain things I think the general public should hear about. Condoms and evolution are some of those. Believe and do what you want, but basic, scientific, factual information should be available at school, if nowhere else in your life. And there should be some discussion somewhere in their lives of homosexuality so they don't have ridiculous lies and stereotypes about them running around in their heads.
Public schools sometimes teach Black history and I don't think racist parents should get an opt-out. Do they? I don't know so I'm really asking.
ETA: we had permission slips sent home in my day, too and some kids stayed home.
Here's the practical pain in the ass: what to do with the kids that opt out. Now the teacher has to write another unit or plan and is basically teaching two classes at once. Fucking awesome. I had to do that two years ago for parents who didn't want their kids to read Lord of the Flies.
And if it doesn't fall on the teacher, it's a supervision issue- where do the kids go?
Here's the practical pain in the ass: what to do with the kids that opt out. Now the teacher has to write another unit or plan and is basically teaching two classes at once. Fucking awesome. I had to do that two years ago for parents who didn't want their kids to read Lord of the Flies.
And if it doesn't fall on the teacher, it's a supervision issue- where do the kids go?
...and you can't test it, because a bunch of the kids weren't there, and that wouldn't be fair.
...and the other kids know that, so they don't give a rip about what's going on, because they know it won't be on the test.
Post by msmerymac on Sept 11, 2012 11:20:16 GMT -5
Shouldn't you be secure enough in your faith that you can have discussions about beliefs that run contrary to yours without banning your child from hearing about the FOREVER?